Kings flame fuoco is really badly designed boss

[pocbame]

He has multiple attacks which different timings, that have similar or near-identical windups. So you have to learn these by trial and error, which just feels cheap. And then in his 2nd phase, you have to stay literally right next to him, otherwise he just spams cannon shots and annihilates you, but if you stay at close range, he literally has a move that says "if I use this while youre close to me, theres literally nothing you can do to avoid it and you take 1.5 health bars of damage"

[Drakenhof]

Is slow and predictable

[pocbame]

Originally posted by Paraskeet:

not necessarily bad designed. the whole point of playing games that don't give you everything on a silver platter ( like the cinematic slob we see with starfield, god of war etc. ) is trial and error.
you go in, you die, you try again...

one thing I got an issue with is the unnecessary downtime and padding. even fromsoft learned at some point that running a mile to the boss, is pointless unless you try to artificially increase playtime.

with that said if fuoco is poorly designed ( which he isn't. at least imo ) then ready yourself for a world of pain.
just embrace the agony and you won't be disappointed

Soulslikes aren't meant to be trial and error. A boss is fair if you can reasonably expect a player to walk in and beat it on the first try. Even the hardest souls bosses are like this, i.e I first tried slave knight gael in ds3. Trial and error is not a good thing

[pocbame]

Originally posted by Kevin Ryan:

It actually blows my mind that a player who can defeat the Watchman somehow has trouble with Fuoco.

The hardest thing about him, THE hardest thing, is just getting the timing down on his overhead slams since they come down faster than you initially think.

But that's it.

The watchman is so easy though? Not comparable to a boss who has a move that just guaranteed takes away 2 of your hp bars if you're just too close when he starts the animation

[Dregora]

Originally posted by pocbame:

Originally posted by Paraskeet:

not necessarily bad designed. the whole point of playing games that don't give you everything on a silver platter ( like the cinematic slob we see with starfield, god of war etc. ) is trial and error.
you go in, you die, you try again...

one thing I got an issue with is the unnecessary downtime and padding. even fromsoft learned at some point that running a mile to the boss, is pointless unless you try to artificially increase playtime.

with that said if fuoco is poorly designed ( which he isn't. at least imo ) then ready yourself for a world of pain.
just embrace the agony and you won't be disappointed

Soulslikes aren't meant to be trial and error. A boss is fair if you can reasonably expect a player to walk in and beat it on the first try. Even the hardest souls bosses are like this, i.e I first tried slave knight gael in ds3. Trial and error is not a good thing

You're entirely wrong. The whole premise of Dark Souls was that they intended you to die and learn. They wanted you to die and be like, okay what went wrong, what can I do to improve and prevent it and with that new knowledge, beat it. To overcome it.

So no, what you're spouting now is grade A nonsense. I will bet your booty that nobody first tried Slave Knight Gael, Friede, Demon princes etc on their first encounter without any prior knowledge of the fight at all.

And with nobody, I meant the VAST majority. I'm sure there are a few unique examples that did, but I doubt you were one of them.


Do you think the whole ''prepare to die'' slogan for Dark Souls was for fun? The game expects you to die.

[pocbame]

Originally posted by Dregora:

Originally posted by pocbame:

Soulslikes aren't meant to be trial and error. A boss is fair if you can reasonably expect a player to walk in and beat it on the first try. Even the hardest souls bosses are like this, i.e I first tried slave knight gael in ds3. Trial and error is not a good thing

You're entirely wrong. The whole premise of Dark Souls was that they intended you to die and learn. They wanted you to die and be like, okay what went wrong, what can I do to improve and prevent it and with that new knowledge, beat it. To overcome it.

So no, what you're spouting now is grade A nonsense. I will bet your booty that nobody first tried Slave Knight Gael, Friede, Demon princes etc on their first encounter without any prior knowledge of the fight at all.

And with nobody, I meant the VAST majority. I'm sure there are a few unique examples that did, but I doubt you were one of them.


Do you think the whole ''prepare to die'' slogan for Dark Souls was for fun? The game expects you to die.

"Le heckin prepare to die! lol epic win fellow reddit bros!"
No, that's not the purpose of the souls series. The bosses are tough but fair. It's very reasonable to expect a player (of a certain caliber) to walk into a boss room and beat it first try, because the telegraphs are extremely intuitive, even if you see an attack for the first time, you can often dodge it just based on audio and visual cues. And the bosses don't tend to have "gotcha" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If they're doing a big move, they have a very clear tell so that you can get out of the way.

[SteelaiRizel]

Originally posted by pocbame:

Originally posted by Paraskeet:

not necessarily bad designed. the whole point of playing games that don't give you everything on a silver platter ( like the cinematic slob we see with starfield, god of war etc. ) is trial and error.
you go in, you die, you try again...

one thing I got an issue with is the unnecessary downtime and padding. even fromsoft learned at some point that running a mile to the boss, is pointless unless you try to artificially increase playtime.

with that said if fuoco is poorly designed ( which he isn't. at least imo ) then ready yourself for a world of pain.
just embrace the agony and you won't be disappointed

Soulslikes aren't meant to be trial and error. A boss is fair if you can reasonably expect a player to walk in and beat it on the first try. Even the hardest souls bosses are like this, i.e I first tried slave knight gael in ds3. Trial and error is not a good thing

Excuse me? Soulsikes and the souls games ARE meant to be trial and error. There is a reason the original Dark Souls motto and selling phrase was 'Prepare to Die'. Your reasoning is very flawed.

Hell the good ol All Saints Day trailer from way back showed exactly this. Dying again and again and again. But still getting up again to rise to the challenge.

[SteelaiRizel]

Originally posted by pocbame:

Originally posted by Dregora:

You're entirely wrong. The whole premise of Dark Souls was that they intended you to die and learn. They wanted you to die and be like, okay what went wrong, what can I do to improve and prevent it and with that new knowledge, beat it. To overcome it.

So no, what you're spouting now is grade A nonsense. I will bet your booty that nobody first tried Slave Knight Gael, Friede, Demon princes etc on their first encounter without any prior knowledge of the fight at all.

And with nobody, I meant the VAST majority. I'm sure there are a few unique examples that did, but I doubt you were one of them.


Do you think the whole ''prepare to die'' slogan for Dark Souls was for fun? The game expects you to die.

"Le heckin prepare to die! lol epic win fellow reddit bros!"
No, that's not the purpose of the souls series. The bosses are tough but fair. It's very reasonable to expect a player (of a certain caliber) to walk into a boss room and beat it first try, because the telegraphs are extremely intuitive, even if you see an attack for the first time, you can often dodge it just based on audio and visual cues. And the bosses don't tend to have "gotcha" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If they're doing a big move, they have a very clear tell so that you can get out of the way.

Yup lets just ignore trailers, Miyazaki's own words from interviews over the course of the games over the years and so on.

Jeezus mate. Delusional.

[pocbame]

Categorically incorrect. You don't know what you're talking about. "Prepare to die EDITION" was the version of the game that included the dlc, and it was released a year after the initial game. The reason for the name was that the community dubbed the game as "the super hard game" so they went with it, it has nothing to do with game design

[pocbame]

Originally posted by SteelaiRizel:

Originally posted by pocbame:

"Le heckin prepare to die! lol epic win fellow reddit bros!"
No, that's not the purpose of the souls series. The bosses are tough but fair. It's very reasonable to expect a player (of a certain caliber) to walk into a boss room and beat it first try, because the telegraphs are extremely intuitive, even if you see an attack for the first time, you can often dodge it just based on audio and visual cues. And the bosses don't tend to have "gotcha" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If they're doing a big move, they have a very clear tell so that you can get out of the way.

Yup lets just ignore trailers, Miyazaki's own words from interviews over the course of the games over the years and so on.

Jeezus mate. Delusional.

Sorry that you suck too hard at souls that you have to die multiple times to every boss, but thats not the case for everyone

[Paraskeet]

Originally posted by pocbame:

Soulslikes aren't meant to be trial and error. A boss is fair if you can reasonably expect a player to walk in and beat it on the first try. Even the hardest souls bosses are like this, i.e I first tried slave knight gael in ds3. Trial and error is not a good thing

you are clueless and if I had to guess, you belong to the demographic that gets easily frustrated with these games which isn't a bad thing. it just means that these games are meant for you.

Originally posted by KoD:

Tell me you used Motivity playstyle on light weapons without telling me you did it. Salamander dagger will rekt every single carcass boss in the game and a few human ones. Tyrant hunter will destroy all of them WHEN USED PROPERLY.

I stated already several times that I did a technique build... so I have no clue how you jumped to the conclusion that I was using light weapons with a motivity build.

[pretorian]

Originally posted by Kevin Ryan:

It actually blows my mind that a player who can defeat the Watchman somehow has trouble with Fuoco.

The hardest thing about him, THE hardest thing, is just getting the timing down on his overhead slams since they come down faster than you initially think.

But that's it.

We all have our own issues with different bosses. In Sekiro, I personally struggled immensly with Chained Ogre, Seven Spears, Juzo and all the headless. I didn't however really have much trouble with Shinobi Hunter, Shichimen Warrior, Lady Butterfly or Genichiro. They just clicked better for me.

I personally struggle immensly with the combat in LoP. Don't know why but I just can't get the hang of it.

[Heiinz]

/blame you

Originally posted by pocbame:

Sorry that you suck too hard at souls that you have to die multiple times to every boss, but thats not the case for everyone

If you think the bosses in this one are "unfair" because of
- different timings: huh? should they all take like 2 seconds from tell to hit?
- identical windups: you missed something and no one will blame you windups sometime result in different attacks based on your position (far away, near, left right)
- "you are close to me"-moves: they always have either enough time to get out of there or a strategy that let's you avoid them

I'm at chapter 8 right now and have yet to see something i would call unfair.

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by pretorian.stalker:

I personally struggle immensly with the combat in LoP.

It's because the combat has some serious issues that need tweaking - parry system needs a second pass. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a big balance pass somewhere down the line that addresses these issues.

[kyu bey]

All of these comments & no one mentioned ATTRIBUTE PURIFICATION AMPOULE?

[Kevin Ryan]

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

Originally posted by pretorian.stalker:

I personally struggle immensly with the combat in LoP.

It's because the combat has some serious issues that need tweaking - parry system needs a second pass. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a big balance pass somewhere down the line that addresses these issues.

Doubt it.

If they were gonna do anything to the perfect guard timing, they would've done it by now after the extended demo and DEFINITELY by now with this first patch.

It seems pretty clear to me that perfect guard is exactly where they want it to be.

And I agree personally. It's really not that bad if you're willing to put in the time to get good at it.