A criticism of weapon assembly

[Edetha4]

I like the idea of weapon assembly, and hope to see it expanded on further but I find it has a singular issue bringing it down. Namely, it is the handle determining the type of attack, rather than the blade, which is rather counter intuitive. I would think that the blade would determine how you attack with it, since a weapons attack patterns are determined by what it is meant to do, and the Sabre's curved blade is primarily slashing.

So I had thought to combine a Sabre blade with a Rapier handle, to have slashing attacks of the Sabre combined with with the rapier's counter attack. Instead, my character starts stabbing his curved sabre blade as though it were a rapier, only being able to slash using the fable art.

I tested it out further, by swapping the rapier blade onto the electro coil stick handle, and the electro coil stick head to the rapier handle. Instead of an electrified rapier, or a faster, short range bludgeon, my character swings the thin rapier blade like a club, and rapidly thrusting the blunt electro coil head as though he was attempting to poke them with the blunt end hoping for it to simply act as taser on contact.

I have enjoyed my time with the game so far greatly, and I do hope to purchase it on release, but I found this one of two issue I had rather perturbing, though hopefully, it can be flipped,

Ideally though, a system that allows the player to choose on assembly, whether it is the handle or the blade that determines the type of attack.

[MrSmiley]

It is pretty odd handle decides pattern which results in blades/clubs being used...awkwardly.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

agreed, the system does not work well. with the weapons you have available in the demo, theres no reason to use anything other than the greatsword blade with the rapier handle. insanely high DPS because it has the same damage as the greatsword, but with insanely fast attacks.

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" ThunderCuck:

agreed, the system does not work well. with the weapons you have available in the demo, theres no reason to use anything other than the greatsword blade with the rapier handle. insanely high DPS because it has the same damage as the greatsword, but with insanely fast attacks.

After some testing i can say i disagree, the great sword blade weighs twice the amount as the rapier blade, so much more capacity investment, and that blade uses more stamina per swing. I have no good way to measure but using that blade also feels slower.

Its like using the giant rapiers in elden ring, if you like it, that's fine, you do you, but there are plenty of good reasons not to use that blade on the rapier handle, in the end its just a matter
of preference.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

Originally posted by Chad "The King" ThunderCuck:

agreed, the system does not work well. with the weapons you have available in the demo, theres no reason to use anything other than the greatsword blade with the rapier handle. insanely high DPS because it has the same damage as the greatsword, but with insanely fast attacks.

After some testing i can say i disagree, the great sword blade weighs twice the amount as the rapier blade, so much more capacity investment, and that blade uses more stamina per swing. I have no good way to measure but using that blade also feels slower.

Its like using the giant rapiers in elden ring, if you like it, that's fine, you do you, but there are plenty of good reasons not to use that blade on the rapier handle, in the end its just a matter
of preference.

it only takes ~3,000,000 souls to level every single stat to 100. youve got plenty of stat points to play around with.

and theres no reason to NOT use the rapier moveset with the greatsword blade. granted, the rapier blade and GS blade end up doing the exact same damage at max stats, but the GS blade deals far more "poise" damage and just looks better. if your only reason to NOT use it is it weighs slightly more, well try out the different weight classes. this aint dark souls buddy, they dont seem to actually effect much beyond your run speed.

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" ThunderCuck:

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

After some testing i can say i disagree, the great sword blade weighs twice the amount as the rapier blade, so much more capacity investment, and that blade uses more stamina per swing. I have no good way to measure but using that blade also feels slower.

Its like using the giant rapiers in elden ring, if you like it, that's fine, you do you, but there are plenty of good reasons not to use that blade on the rapier handle, in the end its just a matter
of preference.

it only takes ~3,000,000 souls to level every single stat to 100. youve got plenty of stat points to play around with.

and theres no reason to NOT use the rapier moveset with the greatsword blade. granted, the rapier blade and GS blade end up doing the exact same damage at max stats, but the GS blade deals far more "poise" damage and just looks better. if your only reason to NOT use it is it weighs slightly more, well try out the different weight classes. this aint dark souls buddy, they dont seem to actually effect much beyond your run speed.

After even further testing i still stand by my statement, the great sword blade on the rapier handle is a good combo, but it is not the end all beat all, damage over the rapier blade is not that much, its biggest benefit is the extra block percentage. i also tested the effect of running slightly heavy on the weight scale, it is not a big deal, but you pass 80% weight, then you start fat rolling, so slightly heavy is fine to be in.

in the scrapped watchmen fight is when i really felt the increase is stamina usage from that combo, and being in the slightly heavy weight meant my stamina does regenerate a bit slower, so it made for some less aggressive plays.

So i will still say it really boils down to personal preference.

btw as for the groggy argument, as long as you get your perfect blocks you will be getting groggy, testing on that brute outside the town hall, just normal pokes would kill it before getting a single groggy with both the rapier blade and the great sword blade.

[zmanbuilder]

I forgot to mention that one big plus to great sword blade rapier handle is the fay art from the blade, that aoe slash really helps cover that handles main weakness, though it does mean that it does not have a great single target attack unless you are good at that parry it has. Honestly, mixing and matching fay arts is really fun, then you add arm synergy on top of that plus the P-Organ builds.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

Originally posted by Chad "The King" ThunderCuck:

it only takes ~3,000,000 souls to level every single stat to 100. youve got plenty of stat points to play around with.

and theres no reason to NOT use the rapier moveset with the greatsword blade. granted, the rapier blade and GS blade end up doing the exact same damage at max stats, but the GS blade deals far more "poise" damage and just looks better. if your only reason to NOT use it is it weighs slightly more, well try out the different weight classes. this aint dark souls buddy, they dont seem to actually effect much beyond your run speed.

After even further testing i still stand by my statement, the great sword blade on the rapier handle is a good combo, but it is not the end all beat all, damage over the rapier blade is not that much, its biggest benefit is the extra block percentage. i also tested the effect of running slightly heavy on the weight scale, it is not a big deal, but you pass 80% weight, then you start fat rolling, so slightly heavy is fine to be in.

in the scrapped watchmen fight is when i really felt the increase is stamina usage from that combo, and being in the slightly heavy weight meant my stamina does regenerate a bit slower, so it made for some less aggressive plays.

So i will still say it really boils down to personal preference.

btw as for the groggy argument, as long as you get your perfect blocks you will be getting groggy, testing on that brute outside the town hall, just normal pokes would kill it before getting a single groggy with both the rapier blade and the great sword blade.

end all BE ALL. please refrain from using words and phrases you clearly dont actually understand or know. the GS does insane amounts of poise damage compared to the rapier, while having the same damage as it, where as the pointy stab needle does literally no poise damage outside of a charged attack. and theres no way your passing 80% weight unless you pointlessly have 2 GS's equiped in the demo. even then, i dont think thats gonna get you to 80%.increased stamina usage? absolutely not. not that it would matter if there was, because on the lowest level of stamina you can still get off a 6 hit combo with the GS.

please. continue telling me more about how your objectively wrong opinion is valid, and how your "testing" consists of you pulling numbers and scenarios out of your ass.

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" ThunderCuck:

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

After even further testing i still stand by my statement, the great sword blade on the rapier handle is a good combo, but it is not the end all beat all, damage over the rapier blade is not that much, its biggest benefit is the extra block percentage. i also tested the effect of running slightly heavy on the weight scale, it is not a big deal, but you pass 80% weight, then you start fat rolling, so slightly heavy is fine to be in.

in the scrapped watchmen fight is when i really felt the increase is stamina usage from that combo, and being in the slightly heavy weight meant my stamina does regenerate a bit slower, so it made for some less aggressive plays.

So i will still say it really boils down to personal preference.

btw as for the groggy argument, as long as you get your perfect blocks you will be getting groggy, testing on that brute outside the town hall, just normal pokes would kill it before getting a single groggy with both the rapier blade and the great sword blade.

end all BE ALL. please refrain from using words and phrases you clearly dont actually understand or know. the GS does insane amounts of poise damage compared to the rapier, while having the same damage as it, where as the pointy stab needle does literally no poise damage outside of a charged attack. and theres no way your passing 80% weight unless you pointlessly have 2 GS's equiped in the demo. even then, i dont think thats gonna get you to 80%.increased stamina usage? absolutely not. not that it would matter if there was, because on the lowest level of stamina you can still get off a 6 hit combo with the GS.

please. continue telling me more about how your objectively wrong opinion is valid, and how your "testing" consists of you pulling numbers and scenarios out of your ass.

You do not see this kind of hostility from people whom are actually right.

The great sword blade itself uses more stamina per swing, easy to prove by just doing a 2 hit combo on the training dummy. As for the groggy, just doing pokes will not lead to a single groggy on a enemy, adding in some perfect blocks will get you some but just pokes will not, if you test against actual enemies you would know that, but you like to, and i quote "pull number and scenarios out of your ass".

Tested with 12 vitality 12 vigor, 10 capacity, 5 motivity, 18 technique and 6 advance, with a plus 2 great sword blade and a plus 2 rapier blade, both on the rapier hilt.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

i literally just spam light attacks, and get constant staggers. please keep spewing more blatantly wrong nonsense.

[zmanbuilder]

Stagger? enemies stagger to every weapon, groggy is created from perfect blocks and strong attacks (maybe), the training dummy gets groggy on 3 hits from the great sword blade but 4 hits from the rapier blade, normal enemies will die before you can get a single groggy from pokes, fighting those stupid great sword guys outside the city hall with both blades showed no real difference in stagger but the great sword blade could kill them in 1 less hit, if you do 2 lights then 1 heavy.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

Stagger? enemies stagger to every weapon, groggy is created from perfect blocks and strong attacks (maybe), the training dummy gets groggy on 3 hits from the great sword blade but 4 hits from the rapier blade, normal enemies will die before you can get a single groggy from pokes, fighting those stupid great sword guys outside the city hall with both blades showed no real difference in stagger but the great sword blade could kill them in 1 less hit, if you do 2 lights then 1 heavy.

you know damn well what im talking about son, just because im not bothering to use their word for it dosent change anything. stop trying to argue semantics because theres nothing else for you to argue.

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" ThunderCuck:

Originally posted by zmanbuilder:

Stagger? enemies stagger to every weapon, groggy is created from perfect blocks and strong attacks (maybe), the training dummy gets groggy on 3 hits from the great sword blade but 4 hits from the rapier blade, normal enemies will die before you can get a single groggy from pokes, fighting those stupid great sword guys outside the city hall with both blades showed no real difference in stagger but the great sword blade could kill them in 1 less hit, if you do 2 lights then 1 heavy.

you know damn well what im talking about son, just because im not bothering to use their word for it dosent change anything. stop trying to argue semantics because theres nothing else for you to argue.

i kill that brute that is smashing corpses outside the city hall, just doing pokes will not give a single groggy, unless there is a stat that effects groggy, the great sword blade will kill the brute without a single groggy happen, other enemies just die in a few hits anyway. And the point you get the ability change blades and hilts, the demo is 85% done, so i cannot test against much else, (you get the ability to build weapons after you kill mad donkey).

I beat the demo for a third time just to test this out, and i go into the game to make sure i'm still right, if you actually tested things out and you are getting a different result, there would have to be a stat you invested in the effects groggy, as with 18 technique, i'm not getting any groggies (still feels dumb to say) with the plus 2 great sword, rapier hilt combo with just pokes, dogs die in 2 hits, the normal bots die in around 1 light and 1 heavy.

And the best argument against the rapier in general is that it struggles against groups, nothing you cannot work around but its still a thing.

[Chad "The King" ThunderCuck]

i dont know what youre doing wrong, but im getting that guy groggy in 3-4 hits with a GS and rapier handle. cause with no stat investment, im getting far better results than the lies you keep spewing.

[zmanbuilder]

Originally posted by Chad "The King" ThunderCuck:

i dont know what youre doing wrong, but im getting that guy groggy in 3-4 hits with a GS and rapier handle. cause with no stat investment, im getting far better results than the lies you keep spewing.

Normal attacks by themselves will not pro a groggy, beat the demo for a forth time to see is motivity effects it, it does not, you get groggies from perfect blocks and charge attacks.
I can only assume you are testing against the training dummy, NORMAL ENEMIES will not get groggy from normal attacks, this is in game info and easy to prove true.