Nintendo obtains new Patent in US

[McGoodGreen]

So, lots of people were feeling pretty confident Pocket Pair was gonna be able to climb over the Patent issues they were facing in Japan, or at least minimize damages since courts over in Japan are notorious for approving pretty ridiculous patents and surely here in the US we would be more just.

But Nintendo just scored a US patent that also seems to aim to protect "Pokemon" mechanics. I think we can confidently start saying just because Pocketpair has found success here in the West it doesn't mean it is a safe haven if legal proceedings hit the fan.

Identified by U.S. patent number 12,220,638, the patent, published on February 11, describes a gameplay system for capturing creatures. The invention is conceptually similar to a USPTO patent (no. 12,179,111) that Nintendo already secured at the tail end of 2024, with both of them being part of the patent family that's at the center of the Palworld lawsuit.

When Nintendo and The Pokémon Company filed for this patent application in July 2024, they knew the original Palworld, which was already about six months old. But they did not know the changes that Pocketpair made to Palworld in December 2024, Those changes being the infamous removal of Pal throw summons.

This new patent approval paves the way for Nintendo to bring this legal battle into the US, which means they are prepared to throw even more money at this. The changes are obviously aimed at Palworld even though this is all a continuation of a December 2021 application, with the continuation application having been filed in September 2022.

It is too early to say whether Nintendo can actually get any value out of two recent U.S. patents on catching characters and launching fighting characters. but it is very likely even if they don't add a lot to the fight that Nintendo is gearing up to sue Pocketpair in the US as well.

See below a significant portion of the US patent, and the broadest of the claims within it. Remember this is U.S. Patent No. 12,220,638 ( granted February 11, 2025). This builds upon and further explores things brought up in U.S. Patent No. 12,179,111 (December 31, 2024).

1. A method for game processing implemented via an information processing system having at least one processor, the method comprising:

generating data for display of a player character and a first virtual character disposed in a virtual space;

determining an aiming direction based on a direction input; and

in association with the player character performing a first game action:

generating data for display of a first aiming point associated with the aiming direction;

generating data for display of an indicator indicating a likelihood of success of the player character obtaining the first virtual character;

selecting an obtaining item, from a plurality of obtaining items, by performing a first operation input;

generating data for display of the player character launching, in the aiming direction, the obtaining item for obtaining the first virtual character in the virtual space, based on a second operation input;

determining obtaining of the first virtual character, by the player character, as successful in association with the obtaining item arriving with a vicinity of the first virtual character; and

generating data for display of setting the first virtual character as being in possession by the player character in association with determining the first virtual character as successfully obtained, and

in association with the player character performing a second game action:

generating data for display of a second aiming point associated with the aiming direction;

generating data for display of the player character launching, in the aiming direction, a first virtual object representing the obtained first virtual character, based on a third operation input; and

generating data for display of the first virtual character and a second virtual character starting fighting against each other in the virtual space.

[Derpykat5]

Originalmente postado por Tetsuri:

lol, d00d is crazy. Nintendo didn't invent the original 150 pokemon. Some serious Nintendo blaming over here for anything and everything conceivable. And, also, Dragonquest was a NES release.

Nintendo doesn't own all games released on their platforms.

[McGoodGreen]

Originalmente postado por Revelation ~ Discord In Bio:

This whole topic is kinda lame. They can't go after anything that was before their patent was made. Which was just revlcently. In addition there are many many more capture creature games. Nintendo can kick the dirt all they want. Maybe they should've patented their "creation" as people borrows other's inventions all the time.

- They should've targeted them for their character models. Like let's be honest this is what was stolen from Nintendo. But they are too dumb.

You must have missed/skimmed over this part

Originalmente postado por McGoodGreen:

The changes are obviously aimed at Palworld even though this is all a continuation of a December 2021 application, with the continuation application having been filed in September 2022.

This is what I mean when I say legal things can take a long time. Nintendo has been laying the seeds for this since 2021. Years and years later, things are being granted/rejected. And that isn't the end. As I also mentioned, Nintendo is going to continue having this patent petition reviewed which means it is not set in stone that Nintendo has even lost the other 22 patents permanently. Review can overturn prior decisions.

That is actually one of the reasons people really need to stay mad and put pressure on Nintendo. Things lost in court cases are not quickly regained. And with "young" companies, losing legal fights basically means they cannot continue forward.

You think once Nintendo starts making bigger wins they won't continue to fight for more?

And the more they win court cases, the less the game market can be creative and innovative. Nintendo patents are a threat and danger to creativity and future games that haven't even been made yet.

The sort of laws and protections Nintendo is going for isn't to give themselves a Legal Shield. It is to create a Legal Sword, and they will use to to cut down as much as they can get away with.

Nintendo got this bold because consumers have done nothing and continue to love bomb the company with cash and fandoms. Pretending they are harmless and that Palworld is so beloved it will always be here is not a protection, it is not an assurance of any kind. It actually takes defenses away from Palworld because Pocketpair doesn't need you to just keep playing their game....

They need us to loudly decry and shame what Nintendo is doing..

Courts control too much and we have almost no way to effect Court.

The time to complain and do something isn't once they win in Court. Its taken them years to get this much control and if they get more wins it would take just as long to get back what we lost in the gaming industry. Players and new indie studios dont have the kinda money to fight for legal use of Nintendos attempts to patent anything basic in life.

People are allowed to root for Pocketpair, but pretending this whole situation carrys no weight is a huge example of brain rot.

[Teratus]

Originalmente postado por funewchie:

With enough money, all is possible.
Not even US judges are immune.

U.S judges if anything are among the most corrupt in the western world, that's been very clear in recent years.

With any luck there will be a purge in that department and a significant amount of them will en up in jail where they belong soon enough.

Nintendo may be bleeding money from their crappy underpowered consoles, but if they kill off their competition, it won't matter.
Dimwitted parents will still buy their crap for their worthless screaming brats.

They're not bleeding money, Switch has been incredibly successful as has many of their games.
They are however wasting a chunk of that money with these dishonourable lawfare strategies.

Frankly if Nintendo want to play dirty then it's only fair that others play dirty back at them.
Don't buy Nintendo games, emulate them.
Petition western developers or even governments to non comply with Japanese patent laws, or best case scenario campaign for banning or heavily taxing Nintendo products in the west.

There's plenty of s***ty ways we can screw Nintendo back, not all are realistic or easy but suffice to say if enough gamer's retaliate Nintendo could suffer severe financial losses, enough to make them worry at least.

For me at least, I certainly won't be paying for anything Nintendo for at least the next decade, possibly longer.. that depends on them.
I have no problem with denying companies my money when they act like scumbags.

[drakeloreroar]

Look if you feel strongly enough call the department in charge of trade in whatever part of the world you happen to be in and write a letter to your local politicians... be polite about it. It may not be much but it's more than nothing. There's over 25 million of us out there if even 1% of us make our voices heard the right ears may hear it. There isn't much more you can do about it besides that and boycotting Nintendo.

[Teratus]

Originalmente postado por drakeloreroar:

Look if you feel strongly enough call the department in charge of trade in whatever part of the world you happen to be in and write a letter to your local politicians... be polite about it. It may not be much but it's more than nothing. There's over 25 million of us out there if even 1% of us make our voices heard the right ears may hear it. There isn't much more you can do about it besides that and boycotting Nintendo.

25 million is quite the lowball :)
Gamer's make up a huge number of people in the world, majority even in the western world.
We number in the billions overall, though we're an exceptionally diverse group especially when it comes to opinions and beliefs.

Boycotts.. they definitely work when they can get going but they're incredibly difficult to organise due to most gamer's being free thinkers and disagreeing on a lot.
Still it happens sometimes and when it does it's incredibly effective.

[McGoodGreen]

Originalmente postado por Teratus:

Originalmente postado por drakeloreroar:

Look if you feel strongly enough call the department in charge of trade in whatever part of the world you happen to be in and write a letter to your local politicians... be polite about it. It may not be much but it's more than nothing. There's over 25 million of us out there if even 1% of us make our voices heard the right ears may hear it. There isn't much more you can do about it besides that and boycotting Nintendo.

25 million is quite the lowball :)
Gamer's make up a huge number of people in the world, majority even in the western world.
We number in the billions overall, though we're an exceptionally diverse group especially when it comes to opinions and beliefs.

Boycotts.. they definitely work when they can get going but they're incredibly difficult to organise due to most gamer's being free thinkers and disagreeing on a lot.
Still it happens sometimes and when it does it's incredibly effective.

Exactly. Well said. There is strength in community and gamers have some of the largest and strongest ones there are.

Mind boggling to me how some would rather ignore the issue and feel so guilty and invalidated by their choice that when they see others organizing they speak out against it and ridicule it?

Knowledge is power. Stay vigilant. Hold corporations accountable. Never assume they have your best interest in mind and always assume they are looking for ways to take advantage of the masses. Courts are a joke and favor those with money and power.

In just the last four years we have watched the world lose access to things most people had assumed were a given right by now. But here we are living the reality of what happens when you ignore corrupted courts.

Complacency is a disease.

If gamers dont get more involved the whole industry will continue to suffer.

[EXEC_PAJA_/.]

Originalmente postado por drakeloreroar:

Look if you feel strongly enough call the department in charge of trade in whatever part of the world you happen to be in and write a letter to your local politicians... be polite about it. It may not be much but it's more than nothing. There's over 25 million of us out there if even 1% of us make our voices heard the right ears may hear it. There isn't much more you can do about it besides that and boycotting Nintendo.

I personally very strongly and respectfully decline any kind of politeness with nintendo. If they're going to go after any competition because of a horrible, incredibly scummy and possible unethical pursuit of ideas, of all things, i will respond in kind. If they win this, they will go after new games that share even the same color as one of their products under some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ excuse of patent infringement.

I think that at this point we might be dealing with a worst-case scenario where all the choices we have to combat this abhorrent malpractice of the law are horrible. If you can't stop nintendo through the law or any proper channels, how do you stop them then? At some point we're gonna have to really sit down and start a big debate and figure this ♥♥♥♥ out, because this is going to be setting an example for other companies as well. Nintendo gets away winning with this, others will do this as well, and then where will we be at?

[funewchie]

Originalmente postado por EXEC_PAJA_/.:

Originalmente postado por drakeloreroar:

Look if you feel strongly enough call the department in charge of trade in whatever part of the world you happen to be in and write a letter to your local politicians... be polite about it. It may not be much but it's more than nothing. There's over 25 million of us out there if even 1% of us make our voices heard the right ears may hear it. There isn't much more you can do about it besides that and boycotting Nintendo.

I personally very strongly and respectfully decline any kind of politeness with nintendo. If they're going to go after any competition because of a horrible, incredibly scummy and possible unethical pursuit of ideas, of all things, i will respond in kind. If they win this, they will go after new games that share even the same color as one of their products under some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ excuse of patent infringement.

I think that at this point we might be dealing with a worst-case scenario where all the choices we have to combat this abhorrent malpractice of the law are horrible. If you can't stop nintendo through the law or any proper channels, how do you stop them then? At some point we're gonna have to really sit down and start a big debate and figure this ♥♥♥♥ out, because this is going to be setting an example for other companies as well. Nintendo gets away winning with this, others will do this as well, and then where will we be at?

He was saying be polite when speaking to the FTC, politicians, or government agencies.

I'm also getting the impression that things aren't going so smoothly for Nintendo.
It does need to be stated that Capcom tried a similar stunt years ago, against Koei-Tecmo. The matter went to Japan's supreme court, who ruled in favor of one patent, but not the other.
And even then, Koei-Tecmo only had to pay a small fine, and it was back to business.
If PocketPair can avoid an injunction, they'll be in a better position.

So, there is precedent for Japan's higher courts to smack Nintendo's hand, and tell them to knock it off.
(And as brought out elsewhere, Nintendo has lost lawsuits in Japan)

[teckkev]

Anyone who follows Pokemon TCG knows that the Pokemon franchise is getting stale. Their Pokemon releases has lost all creativity. To try boost sales, they increase the releases for the year to force sales on the Pokemon dedicated consumer. What they seem to forget, the consumers are struggling financially too. This tactic will cause their loyal customers to abandon Pokemon TCG that go homeless trying to keep up with the releases. Last several releases of Pokemon had 0 creativity. They just took their Pokemon and changed their color making them a new Pokemon. Even naming the Pokemon is losing creativity. Zelda fans are disappointed too. Instead of a new release for a new console, Nintendo instead just releases the same old Zelda's as NEW. Obvious Nintendo has lost all creativity to release ANYTHING entertaining. This to me is Nintendo's desperation showing.

ADDENDUM:
The Switch! Started good and went sour. The Switch did something that Xbox and PlayStation failed. Nintendo released theme consoles that were within reason of price and in quantity. The others were limited and hard to get with a very exaggerated price tag. Now the sour. Nintendo wanted sales from the joycons since they were deliberately designed to have a short life. Owners were tired of paying $70-80 each time and went with 3rd party joycons. Nintendo the retaliates by stopping the Switch and released the Switch Lite. Nintendo wants you to buy a new console now when your joycons fail. Again, Nintendo's desperation tactics. Right thing to do is 1) Use proper joycons that they should have done from the start, 2) Price replacements to where 3rd party joycons could not compete.

[Dexaldem]

Originalmente postado por McGoodGreen:

So, lots of people were feeling pretty confident Pocket Pair was gonna be able to climb over the Patent issues they were facing in Japan, or at least minimize damages since courts over in Japan are notorious for approving pretty ridiculous patents and surely here in the US we would be more just.

But Nintendo just scored a US patent that also seems to aim to protect "Pokemon" mechanics. I think we can confidently start saying just because Pocketpair has found success here in the West it doesn't mean it is a safe haven if legal proceedings hit the fan.

Identified by U.S. patent number 12,220,638, the patent, published on February 11, describes a gameplay system for capturing creatures. The invention is conceptually similar to a USPTO patent (no. 12,179,111) that Nintendo already secured at the tail end of 2024, with both of them being part of the patent family that's at the center of the Palworld lawsuit.

When Nintendo and The Pokémon Company filed for this patent application in July 2024, they knew the original Palworld, which was already about six months old. But they did not know the changes that Pocketpair made to Palworld in December 2024, Those changes being the infamous removal of Pal throw summons.

This new patent approval paves the way for Nintendo to bring this legal battle into the US, which means they are prepared to throw even more money at this. The changes are obviously aimed at Palworld even though this is all a continuation of a December 2021 application, with the continuation application having been filed in September 2022.

It is too early to say whether Nintendo can actually get any value out of two recent U.S. patents on catching characters and launching fighting characters. but it is very likely even if they don't add a lot to the fight that Nintendo is gearing up to sue Pocketpair in the US as well.

See below a significant portion of the US patent, and the broadest of the claims within it. Remember this is U.S. Patent No. 12,220,638 ( granted February 11, 2025). This builds upon and further explores things brought up in U.S. Patent No. 12,179,111 (December 31, 2024).

1. A method for game processing implemented via an information processing system having at least one processor, the method comprising:

generating data for display of a player character and a first virtual character disposed in a virtual space;

determining an aiming direction based on a direction input; and

in association with the player character performing a first game action:

generating data for display of a first aiming point associated with the aiming direction;

generating data for display of an indicator indicating a likelihood of success of the player character obtaining the first virtual character;

selecting an obtaining item, from a plurality of obtaining items, by performing a first operation input;

generating data for display of the player character launching, in the aiming direction, the obtaining item for obtaining the first virtual character in the virtual space, based on a second operation input;

determining obtaining of the first virtual character, by the player character, as successful in association with the obtaining item arriving with a vicinity of the first virtual character; and

generating data for display of setting the first virtual character as being in possession by the player character in association with determining the first virtual character as successfully obtained, and

in association with the player character performing a second game action:

generating data for display of a second aiming point associated with the aiming direction;

generating data for display of the player character launching, in the aiming direction, a first virtual object representing the obtained first virtual character, based on a third operation input; and

generating data for display of the first virtual character and a second virtual character starting fighting against each other in the virtual space.

This means literally nothing. It would be thrown out in a US court based on empirical evidence of other games that have gained popularity using similar mechanics. Not only that, but it only protects that ONE exact mechanic, and if there is proof of another game having done it first, Nintendo could end up in massive trouble with the FTC.

Finally, the court case going on is in Japan, NOT the United states, so patents filed in the US mean nothing to the japanese court case. Only patents filed in Japan. Is that a lot of legal jargon? Yes. Yes, it very much is. Is that an excuse for poor legal knowledge? No. It absolutely is not. This is a total non-argument until a lawsuit is filed and and accepted by a judge.

[dr46onfusion]

Maybe get Trump involved with the Patent system and how it's being abused left and right at times.

[funewchie]

Originalmente postado por Dexaldem:

This means literally nothing. It would be thrown out in a US court based on empirical evidence of other games that have gained popularity using similar mechanics. Not only that, but it only protects that ONE exact mechanic, and if there is proof of another game having done it first, Nintendo could end up in massive trouble with the FTC.

Finally, the court case going on is in Japan, NOT the United states, so patents filed in the US mean nothing to the japanese court case. Only patents filed in Japan. Is that a lot of legal jargon? Yes. Yes, it very much is. Is that an excuse for poor legal knowledge? No. It absolutely is not. This is a total non-argument until a lawsuit is filed and and accepted by a judge.

It's also against Japanese law, yet here we are.

Also, Nintendo applied for 23 broad patents. While 22 were rejected, Nintendo is appealing it as we speak.
This also happened back in October, when all their patents were rejected. Now one has passed. Nintendo knows they just have to get pushy.

However, Nintendo not only applied for the patents, but paid millions per patent to push each application to the front of the line.
Nintendo wouldn't have paid millions to fast-track their patent application unless they were intending to use it in court.

As for the FTC, we shall see if they bother to enforce their own laws.
Given the state of the USA in recent years, nothing is certain anymore.

[DanielDi34]

Even if all 23 patents get granted for some reason (BRAIN DAMAGE, PROBABLY 💀️), there's no guarantee that they'll hold weight in the courts. The fact that they're still holding out in Japan doesn't mean that they also will in every other country, where they're not everyone's #1 favorite anymore.

Also, it's not only illegal but unconstitutional in the US to prosecute for something that someone did before it was a crime, because that would make it too easy. They'd have to fight a lot more than just the FTC if they want that to end well.

Edit: Formatting error

[funewchie]

Originalmente postado por DanielDi34:

Even if all 23 patents get granted for some reason (BRAIN DAMAGE, PROBABLY 💀️), there's no guarantee that they'll hold weight in the courts. The fact that they're still holding out in Japan doesn't mean that they also will in every other country, where they're not everyone's #1 favorite anymore.

Also, it's not only illegal but unconstitutional in the US to prosecute for something that someone did before it was a crime, because that would make it too easy. They'd have to fight a lot more than just the FTC if they want that to end well.

Edit: Formatting error

With enough money, everything is legal.

If you bribe judges, guess what, even that old scrap of paper they call a Constitution becomes even more meaningless than it already is.

Nintendo has already paid millions for just these applications, they're committing to it. All they want to do is shut down the franchise.
Even if they can't retroactively sue in the USA (and I suspect they will be able to, thanks to the Power of Money), they can neuter Palworld so no more sequels or anime or anything else.

[DanielDi34]

Originalmente postado por funewchie:

Originalmente postado por DanielDi34:

Even if all 23 patents get granted for some reason (BRAIN DAMAGE, PROBABLY 💀️), there's no guarantee that they'll hold weight in the courts. The fact that they're still holding out in Japan doesn't mean that they also will in every other country, where they're not everyone's #1 favorite anymore.

Also, it's not only illegal but unconstitutional in the US to prosecute for something that someone did before it was a crime, because that would make it too easy. They'd have to fight a lot more than just the FTC if they want that to end well.

Edit: Formatting error

With enough money, everything is legal.

If you bribe judges, guess what, even that old scrap of paper they call a Constitution becomes even more meaningless than it already is.

Nintendo has already paid millions for just these applications, they're committing to it. All they want to do is shut down the franchise.
Even if they can't retroactively sue in the USA (and I suspect they will be able to, thanks to the Power of Money), they can neuter Palworld so no more sequels or anime or anything else.

Thankfully, it's not as effortless as you seem to think.

Nintendo's not even the only mega-corp to wanna use these mechanics, meaning any attempt to pay the courts into just doing that anyway could easily be reversed by one of their rivals...especially Sony, who recently teamed up with Pocketpair and I highly doubt would just leave them to die. Even court orders can be appealed and reversed (unless they take it all the way to the Supreme Court). They're not all gonna team up to patent everything if they're broad enough to affect each other, especially not after being bitter rivals for decades. They're not dent-heads.

And even if Palworld doesn't survive, it's sure to cause a large enough stir that it won't just go unchallenged. Any official that allows Pocketpair or its supporters to even speak at all would see the implications of that. "Thrown object to interact with a non-human entity in a virtual space"--not even videogame, just "virtual space." If these patent truly are that broad, then they could reach beyond gaming and include radar displays and missile targeting systems, meaning even the government itself could be asked to hand over its entire real-life army. Not even in bribery would any sane country agree to give that up without a fight.

Actual 4D chess move though if THAT'S what this is. Make them sound like mere videogame patents, so they can try to trap the government into dissolving itself.