Applied Technique and why?

[SyN]

Sooooooo... curious thoughts entered the discord the other day. We were talking about the new Applied Tech books that can be acquired through the "secret" questline... Which then started a "debate" on what the best Pals to use them on; as one of us thought that they were a 1 time only reward, and not farmable. Which obviously lead to the discussion about how they are farmable, just with abysmal drop rates. Which begs the question, why?

If they fundamentally changed the power dynamic in game, I could understand, but since they really only change the range of options you have for efficiency in your base; then why are they so rare? Especially considering that there are 12 different variations, farming a 1% drop rate feels really bad if you wanted to move away from the clunky Jormintide Ignis for something less, sizable, but end up getting your 12th medicine production book.

So realistically these books should be as common; or more common, than the XP books (which is another subject of *why do these even exist*, but I digress) or at least be able to trade in extra Ancient Tech points or something for specific ones.

I don't know, feels like if I'm farming chests on the Feybreak Oilrig, I think I'm less concerned with what my Pals are doing back at base; as I probably already have things doing things, and would only be "customizing".

Unless this is some sort of prelude to another content drop in which they are dropped like candy, I don't see why they need to be so ridiculously rare. Seriously, all they do is modify base pals base skills. It's not like they make them do more damage to raid bosses, and they can't go over rank 5 in any work skill. Why are they so rare? Just, why?

[drakeloreroar]

Same thoughts exactly. It's just blatant bad design. There's zero reason that they shouldn't be available for Dog Coins or something. I think the idea was to make some sort of rare item to sell in the new trading post structures or something for multiplayer, but that's in extremely bad taste... don't lock us being able to use our favorite Pals behind impossible RNG. Only other thing I can see is that it's all about engagement metrics and keeping people playing but honestly the RNG is now so bad that I'm not even willing to try anymore. Kind of depressing but this is par for the course for these devs.

[tag545]

they made drops abysmal across the board with the technique books being the most blatant example with how many you need to actually make a difference in your base. this will probably get re-balanced in the next major update with some new gimmick making them more accessible like how supply drops made it easy to stockpile the stat boosters.

now if you could farm them they have a pretty strong impact on your base allowing you to make the smaller faster pals able to replace the usual roster.

[drakeloreroar]

Originally posted by tag545:

now if you could farm them they have a pretty strong impact on your base allowing you to make the smaller faster pals able to replace the usual roster.

Eh. It really doesn't make that much of a difference. I think I've seen it tested and it's only about a 10% increase in production in the most extreme cases assuming they're at work 24/7. Contrary to popular belief Falaris is still better than Mimog at transporting just due to its size/reach and ability to fly.

Certainly not enough to be game breaking. And if you play with raids turned on (but who does that?) that's just one less able fighter to defend your base.

[AquaX]

There are certain things ppl must understand that the devs likely are trying deal with.

1) the newer weps being stuck behind the oil rig chest. This was likely done as a stop gap measure to prevent players from getting the strongest weps too quickly. They know that if they put it behind the alpha bosses, players will hard farm them to get the leg schematic. The level 50 gear has proven that. They might relocate it later on so we can only wait and see.

2) the applied books are likely the devs attempt to give players an option to buff lower skilled pals so they can compete with stronger skilled pals. I am sure there are a lot of pals ppl like but due to their low skills, they have to be switched out for better ones to do their jobs efficiently. My guess on why they made hard to get is likely they are afraid that players might just jam it all into the current best skill making it even stronger.

3) tech books are been trivialized with this update. Capture/beating a bounty target that you can see on the world map nets you bounty currency which let you trade for tech books from the bounty exchanger. This is also how you can start on your research.

[tag545]

Originally posted by drakeloreroar:

Originally posted by tag545:

now if you could farm them they have a pretty strong impact on your base allowing you to make the smaller faster pals able to replace the usual roster.

Eh. It really doesn't make that much of a difference. I think I've seen it tested and it's only about a 10% increase in production in the most extreme cases assuming they're at work 24/7. Contrary to popular belief Falaris is still better than Mimog at transporting just due to its size/reach and ability to fly.

Certainly not enough to be game breaking. And if you play with raids turned on (but who does that?) that's just one less able fighter to defend your base.

your base isn't ever really going to get "game breaking" but there are some obvious improvements you can make like replacing lyleen and other go to pals with nocturnal pals which at minimum gives you that 20% boost from the serious passive (no longer needing vampire or nocturnal) and better skills. prunelia is a better base pal than lyleen but gets overshadowed by the 1 point in planting.

you can also just upgrade pals like shroomer that you have at your base anyway just for their skill so they are more than just a decoration.

transport is the exception since its based more on movement speed than the actual suitability.

overall if these books were more available you can end up with a more efficient base which actually boosts your combat ability by giving you free space to add any combat pals you want. y

[Morion]

I think ratio is low as they will expand game with several more huge updates like Sakurajima or Feybreak. With those they will add more ways to obtain items/affect their drop ratio.

[SyN]

Originally posted by AquaX:

There are certain things ppl must understand that the devs likely are trying deal with.

1) the newer weps being stuck behind the oil rig chest. This was likely done as a stop gap measure to prevent players from getting the strongest weps too quickly. They know that if they put it behind the alpha bosses, players will hard farm them to get the leg schematic. The level 50 gear has proven that. They might relocate it later on so we can only wait and see.

2) the applied books are likely the devs attempt to give players an option to buff lower skilled pals so they can compete with stronger skilled pals. I am sure there are a lot of pals ppl like but due to their low skills, they have to be switched out for better ones to do their jobs efficiently. My guess on why they made hard to get is likely they are afraid that players might just jam it all into the current best skill making it even stronger.

3) tech books are been trivialized with this update. Capture/beating a bounty target that you can see on the world map nets you bounty currency which let you trade for tech books from the bounty exchanger. This is also how you can start on your research.

1) Don't care, truthfully. If you're opposed to repeating content to farm for top tier armor and weapons; you haven't played MMORPG games. This is the cornerstone of the genre. That's not my point at all though.

2) My point was that if this is the case; why are the books locked behind content that is designed to have an already working base? I'm paraphrasing a lot here, but before you go to the oil rig, and take on the attack chopper, you likely have a breeding base; a production base, and whatever other end-game driven setups you prefer. The point is, by the time you *can* farm them, they are nothing more that a customization on already "working" bases. Why are they not more common so that if you so chose, you could use a Foxsparks to the same extent you already use a Jormuntide Ignis; by getting books to make Foxsparks Kindling better, but earlier in the game? There is nothing game breaking about it; Pals will still get broken pathing issues, some are just better, more efficient pals. For example if you really wanted (and had a year to farm the books for it) you could use 4 Incinaram's in a mining base. They'd work all night, have handiwork and transpo basically replacing Anubis/Splat and would be able to use the Gigofurnace; giving you more slots for other things; like combat pets to fend off raids (if you play with them on).

That last point though; you can't use the books to upgrade an already rank 5 tech. They only serve one purpose, but with being as rare as they are, they do not serve that purpose.

3) Who actually cares about the tech point books? Sort of irrelevant to the conversation here. The only mention of the tech point books was to have an alternative currency to get applied technique books, since you are capped at how many tech points you can spend, but not on how many you can earn.

[SyN]

Originally posted by drakeloreroar:

Originally posted by tag545:

now if you could farm them they have a pretty strong impact on your base allowing you to make the smaller faster pals able to replace the usual roster.

Eh. It really doesn't make that much of a difference. I think I've seen it tested and it's only about a 10% increase in production in the most extreme cases assuming they're at work 24/7. Contrary to popular belief Falaris is still better than Mimog at transporting just due to its size/reach and ability to fly.

Certainly not enough to be game breaking. And if you play with raids turned on (but who does that?) that's just one less able fighter to defend your base.

This is sort of the point though; it's not *that* much of a difference. It's more preference than anything else. So why make them so ridiculously rare? Why not have them rain down on you as you level up so you could make Quack you're main watering guy if you really wanted to? Just, why? It just seems so petty.

[drakeloreroar]

Originally posted by SyN:

Originally posted by drakeloreroar:

Eh. It really doesn't make that much of a difference. I think I've seen it tested and it's only about a 10% increase in production in the most extreme cases assuming they're at work 24/7. Contrary to popular belief Falaris is still better than Mimog at transporting just due to its size/reach and ability to fly.

Certainly not enough to be game breaking. And if you play with raids turned on (but who does that?) that's just one less able fighter to defend your base.

This is sort of the point though; it's not *that* much of a difference. It's more preference than anything else. So why make them so ridiculously rare? Why not have them rain down on you as you level up so you could make Quack you're main watering guy if you really wanted to? Just, why? It just seems so petty.

Yup I agree, At least with a certain other game I know i can never use the ones I want since they've been Thanos snapped out of existence. Dangling the possibility in front of us then locking it behind impossible RNG is just cruel.

I say if people want to make a base full of syndicate guys let them. Don't lock preference behind a literal decades-long grind.

[drakeloreroar]

Personally I think they need to make them AT LEAST 20X more common from dungeon chests and a 100% drop from the level 60 big chest (if you're that far along and are willing to grind the content you deserve that much, i mean come on we get TWO stat boosting elixirs from supply drops, surely THAT is more game-breaking than a book that lets Chillet keep my stuff cool a bit longer)

[SyN]

Originally posted by drakeloreroar:

Personally I think they need to make them AT LEAST 20X more common from dungeon chests and a 100% drop from the level 60 big chest (if you're that far along and are willing to grind the content you deserve that much, i mean come on we get TWO stat boosting elixirs from supply drops, surely THAT is more game-breaking than a book that lets Chillet keep my stuff cool a bit longer)

Truth. I mean, I'd outright suggest that they replace XP scrolls entirely as drops. I don't really want to get too deep into it; but XP scrolls are worthless; XP is so easy to get, and is also a modifier you can change in the settings tab; Pals earn XP from basically everything; crafting ammo at a work bench, all your base and party Pals are gaining XP... I did a small test, and can get a freshly bred level 1 Pal to level 36~, by simply setting 4999 ignots to smelt. That's 1 stack of Ore, on a server at 0.75 XP gains (my friends wanted to *grind*). XP is nothing. Things that can change your preferences... that's something most people would enjoy but nobody's ever going to get.

Taking a look at the Steam numbers (based on achievements) less than 2% of Palworld player base has even done the Feybreak Tower. 2.4% running 20+ dungeons... 8.4% doing the rig...

[drakeloreroar]

Originally posted by SyN:

Taking a look at the Steam numbers (based on achievements) less than 2% of Palworld player base has even done the Feybreak Tower. 2.4% running 20+ dungeons... 8.4% doing the rig...

To be fair only about 10% of the people from the first big wave when the game first came out (still a lot for any game) still play so that 2.4% represents about a quarter of the players still left. But that oil rig one counts for the level 30 and 55 oil rig as well so can't glean much from that.

[rwd_1980]

Instead of worrying about the Applied Technique Books, I think it's easier to breed/farm enough pals to condense towards getting that 4 star rating on your favorite crafting pals.
Once you get to 4 stars, pals get +1 to all of their crafting skills.

[SyN]

Originally posted by rwd_1980:

Instead of worrying about the Applied Technique Books, I think it's easier to breed/farm enough pals to condense towards getting that 4 star rating on your favorite crafting pals.
Once you get to 4 stars, pals get +1 to all of their crafting skills.

Sooooo, you sort of skipped the bits about the conversation; the books only purpose is to facilitate different base Pal options. If I wanted to use a Katress Ignis as a smelter, I could, but I'd be limiting myself to a Kindling 3 Pal, with some luck, I could get that to rank 4 using a book (which has a 1% drop rate from Oil Rig chests, and a 0.014% anywhere else)... Basically, the math indicates that if I wanted to revamp and use my "favorite" Pals or sort of "meta" my base with "better" pals that are less efficient (but become better if they had access to multiple books); I'd spend 5-6 years hoping to get lucky once an hour, every hour.

That's the point of the conversation. It's kind of like talking about the random "Rank 1" potions... who cares? It's literally 4 Pals you could breed overnight. They exist though, so why are they not "better"? Same kind of conversation; if I'm end-game enough to farm the Oil Rig chests on an hourly basis; I probably don't need to revamp my base. It's doing what it's supposed to. As a customization option, I see value there; the problem is, I don't see 3 years of value from getting 4 books (I want) in that time.

The math is also complicated by the fact that there are 12 unique technique books; meaning your 0.014% chance is inflated by the fact that you could get 12 Medicine Production books before seeing a Kindling or Mining book.

TL;DR: Applied Tech books should be found earlier, more often, to serve there own purpose. Until they are at least a 20% drop rate, they serve literally no purpose other than to agitate people who would use them.

[Morion]

Yeah, book has entire new potential like to use very small pals for work, some of them would be better that top tier if had high skill. But as I said previously, it is still early access and I am sure, that in the future there will be other way to obtain those books.