Palworld

Palworld

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Donald j. Trump 1. feb. 2024 kl. 14:08
To those who say "Sue!"
I doubt you will get your wish. Other forms off direct rip offs exist. Nintendo is not going to sue.

Moreover do you really think Steam is going to sell something like this with the chance of legal action?

I am even more surprised that there is such vitriol for this game. Are you hating this type of game in general or do you hate anything that competes with pokemon? Are you just litigious?

And finally, with all the copies sold I am sure that they can just pay off Nintendo.

Such and odd thing to be upset over. Virtue signaling for a mutilmillion maybe even mutlibillion dollar company.
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Badger 2. feb. 2024 kl. 9:35 
Oprindeligt skrevet af bishop6363:
AND Pokemon has to wait to see how popular and profitable the game is to decide if a lawsuit is even worth pursuing. At 20 million copies sold- rest assured Pokemon is noticing and deciding what course of action to take next. no on has decided this is not in fact copy right infringement. Its close. Is it close enough for a lawsuit? Thats for a judge and/or Jury to decide. but it will almost assuredly result in either: dismissed outright or settle for royalties rights and a share of profit.

judge, not jury. Japan does not use jury in civil trials.
And here's the most important reason as to why Nintendo won't sue.

They do not have design patents on any pokemons outside of specific onces (Charizard, Eevee, Pikachu, etc.) They have patents on a lot of pokemon names, but do not have design patents or copyrights on them.
Let's take Lucario for example.
Lucario has a copyright on:
HGSS Unleashed: Lucario (The trading card.) - Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew - Supreme Victors: Lucario - PB&W8 - Lucario (77/135) - PB&W8 - Lucario (78/135) - PB&W4 - Lucario (64/99) - PBW11 - Lucario (80/113) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (55/111) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (55/111) - PXY3 - Lucario-EX (107/111) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (113/111) HGSS Call of Legends - Lucario (14/95)
In the Japanese patent office, same deal. He has patents on his name, and his cards. He does not have an image design patent. This is Lucario; one of their big boy pokemons. Does not have an image patent or an image copyright.
Serperior, has a copyright on his cards and a patent on his name. Does not have a patent or a copyright on his design.
Primarina has a patent on his name, does not have a copyright on any part of it.
Gastly? No trademarks. No patents on account of him being a very generic design and name.
This is all public information someone can look up at the US Copyright Office and the JP Patent Office. This is why Nintendo and Gamefreaks won't sue. It's because the designs that people feel are egregious enough to warrant lawsuits? Nintendo never filed an image design patent, trademark, or copyright on.
bishop6363 2. feb. 2024 kl. 9:36 
This Slate Magazine article - nothing to see here ? Yeah right?

The World’s Most Popular Video Game Is a Huge Mistake, From ripping off Pokémon to forcing players into the worst possible scenarios, no game is more cursed than Palworld.

BY LUKE WINKIE
JAN 31, 20245:09 PM
bishop6363 2. feb. 2024 kl. 9:40 
Steam <could> be forced to remove Palworld until litigation is settle. Not sure why that is a difficult concept for anyone. Not saying there is any reason to believe that will happen, but it definitely could happen. Its a complicated world once you leave the Steam Forums. Try living it. Take a college course, see how much you dont know.
Zinkr7x 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:25 
Oprindeligt skrevet af bishop6363:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Zinkr7x:

My guy, stop commenting. You lack legal knowledge. There's no grounds based on any prior legal case that allows for Nintendo to sue.
Plus, you literally brought up Myth of Empires vs Snail Games, which has no relation to this copyright case whatsoever... HOWEVER one thing we can pull is the time frame it took to pull the game from the Steam store... Wanna guess what it was? Was it months? Or was it approximately 2 weeks? It was 2 weeks. Released Nov 18th, pulled December 3rd. At best, if it's gunna happen for PAlworld, well it should have already happened, but it's gunna be within the next week max.
https://massivelyop.com/2019/11/22/lawful-neutral-when-marvel-sued-ncsoft-over-city-of-heroes/
Please tell me you didnt just link me a court case where the judge dismissed half of Marvel's copyright/trademark claims right out the gate. Did you read the article you linked dude? Or did you get the impression that just 'cause they settled out of court it meant Marvel won?
With the terms undisclosed, its hard to know what happened, but I imagine Marvel paid the city hero guys' legal fees given half of their case was immediately dismissed before it even reached trial. A notable one was how the Captain America lookalike, which was claimed to be copyright infringement, was directly dismissed.
Moral of the story here, read the articles you link or you'll look like a huge idiot.
Zinkr7x 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:42 
Oprindeligt skrevet af bishop6363:
Steam <could> be forced to remove Palworld until litigation is settle. Not sure why that is a difficult concept for anyone. Not saying there is any reason to believe that will happen, but it definitely could happen. Its a complicated world once you leave the Steam Forums. Try living it. Take a college course, see how much you dont know.
I think the point you're missing is that Nintendo is not going to sue because they have no case. Sure, Nintendo could take this to court and DMCA Palworld temporarily, but in much the same way that I could stick my hand into a woodchipper. Nintendo would lose that case, outright, and then would probably have to pay Palworld for damages in a countersuit. Nintendo isn't dense and has a proper legal team, so there's no real "they could do it" here, they're just not gunna sue.
The Former 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:46 
Friendly reminder that Japan requires a percentage of a claim's value in order to bring a civil suit to court. The more money Palworld makes, the less likely Nintendo is to sue.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Zinkr7x:
Oprindeligt skrevet af bishop6363:
Steam <could> be forced to remove Palworld until litigation is settle. Not sure why that is a difficult concept for anyone. Not saying there is any reason to believe that will happen, but it definitely could happen. Its a complicated world once you leave the Steam Forums. Try living it. Take a college course, see how much you dont know.
I think the point you're missing is that Nintendo is not going to sue because they have no case. Sure, Nintendo could take this to court and DMCA Palworld temporarily, but in much the same way that I could stick my hand into a woodchipper. Nintendo would lose that case, outright, and then would probably have to pay Palworld for damages in a countersuit. Nintendo isn't dense and has a proper legal team, so there's no real "they could do it" here, they're just not gunna sue.

Plus, as a fellow observed... If Nintendo sues and loses, they've just provided every competitor a template for how to derive a work off their concept and avoid a lawsuit.
Sidst redigeret af The Former; 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:47
Zinkr7x 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:47 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Wooden Badger:
Oprindeligt skrevet af bishop6363:
AND Pokemon has to wait to see how popular and profitable the game is to decide if a lawsuit is even worth pursuing. At 20 million copies sold- rest assured Pokemon is noticing and deciding what course of action to take next. no on has decided this is not in fact copy right infringement. Its close. Is it close enough for a lawsuit? Thats for a judge and/or Jury to decide. but it will almost assuredly result in either: dismissed outright or settle for royalties rights and a share of profit.

judge, not jury. Japan does not use jury in civil trials.
And here's the most important reason as to why Nintendo won't sue.

They do not have design patents on any pokemons outside of specific onces (Charizard, Eevee, Pikachu, etc.) They have patents on a lot of pokemon names, but do not have design patents or copyrights on them.
Let's take Lucario for example.
Lucario has a copyright on:
HGSS Unleashed: Lucario (The trading card.) - Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew - Supreme Victors: Lucario - PB&W8 - Lucario (77/135) - PB&W8 - Lucario (78/135) - PB&W4 - Lucario (64/99) - PBW11 - Lucario (80/113) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (55/111) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (55/111) - PXY3 - Lucario-EX (107/111) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (113/111) HGSS Call of Legends - Lucario (14/95)
In the Japanese patent office, same deal. He has patents on his name, and his cards. He does not have an image design patent. This is Lucario; one of their big boy pokemons. Does not have an image patent or an image copyright.
Serperior, has a copyright on his cards and a patent on his name. Does not have a patent or a copyright on his design.
Primarina has a patent on his name, does not have a copyright on any part of it.
Gastly? No trademarks. No patents on account of him being a very generic design and name.
This is all public information someone can look up at the US Copyright Office and the JP Patent Office. This is why Nintendo and Gamefreaks won't sue. It's because the designs that people feel are egregious enough to warrant lawsuits? Nintendo never filed an image design patent, trademark, or copyright on.
I cannot directly and confidently comment on Japan law here, but you don't need to get a design patent to get copyright protection in the U.S. Whenever you make something creative, you actually get a base level of copyright protection on the creative works. Design patents as you put them offer more protection, but its a knowledge gap for me there on how.
Its pretty moot here though, the similar designs don't violate said base level of copyright.
Strahan 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:52 
If Nintendo was going to litigate, one would assume they'd already have moved to do so. They would likely have sought an injunction to stop the distribution of the game while the lawsuit was gearing up and since we've heard nothing, I think it's safe to assume their legal department already decided they wouldn't prevail. If it was a small niche game they may have escaped notice so far but given the furor over this game I find it very unlikely Nintendo would not respond quickly.
Sidst redigeret af Strahan; 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:52
The Former 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:53 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Zinkr7x:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Wooden Badger:

judge, not jury. Japan does not use jury in civil trials.
And here's the most important reason as to why Nintendo won't sue.

They do not have design patents on any pokemons outside of specific onces (Charizard, Eevee, Pikachu, etc.) They have patents on a lot of pokemon names, but do not have design patents or copyrights on them.
Let's take Lucario for example.
Lucario has a copyright on:
HGSS Unleashed: Lucario (The trading card.) - Pokemon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew - Supreme Victors: Lucario - PB&W8 - Lucario (77/135) - PB&W8 - Lucario (78/135) - PB&W4 - Lucario (64/99) - PBW11 - Lucario (80/113) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (55/111) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (55/111) - PXY3 - Lucario-EX (107/111) - PXY3 - M Lucario-EX (113/111) HGSS Call of Legends - Lucario (14/95)
In the Japanese patent office, same deal. He has patents on his name, and his cards. He does not have an image design patent. This is Lucario; one of their big boy pokemons. Does not have an image patent or an image copyright.
Serperior, has a copyright on his cards and a patent on his name. Does not have a patent or a copyright on his design.
Primarina has a patent on his name, does not have a copyright on any part of it.
Gastly? No trademarks. No patents on account of him being a very generic design and name.
This is all public information someone can look up at the US Copyright Office and the JP Patent Office. This is why Nintendo and Gamefreaks won't sue. It's because the designs that people feel are egregious enough to warrant lawsuits? Nintendo never filed an image design patent, trademark, or copyright on.
I cannot directly and confidently comment on Japan law here, but you don't need to get a design patent to get copyright protection in the U.S. Whenever you make something creative, you actually get a base level of copyright protection on the creative works. Design patents as you put them offer more protection, but its a knowledge gap for me there on how.
Its pretty moot here though, the similar designs don't violate said base level of copyright.

Strictly speaking, I don't think patents play in here at all. Trademarks are the question, and as the guy says, Nintendo has relatively few trademarks when it comes to the Pokemon themselves.

Copyright is as you say, even in Japan: Create a work of art, you automatically reserve the right to reproduce it. However, in order to be an infringement of copyright, a design has to be close enough that a judge would look at them side by side and feel like posting the "they're the same picture" meme.

There isn't a single Pal in Palworld that stacks up to this standard.

People observe that, say, Galarian Meowth's face is very similar to that of a certain cat in Palworld. But the copyright involves reproducing Meowth, not Meowth's face. Unless Galarian Meowth's face is a trademark of Nintendo or the Pokemon Company, there's no case.
Sidst redigeret af The Former; 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:54
Donald j. Trump 2. feb. 2024 kl. 10:53 
Oprindeligt skrevet af A Worthless Husk of Nothing:
If you crouch in the haystacks in the breeding pen, you become completely obscured from sight. 0/10, game ripped off Assassin's Creed, patiently awaiting the Ubisoft lawsuit.

lol
bishop6363 2. feb. 2024 kl. 12:44 
What if the developers used an AI to scrub the internet for ALL Pokemon fan art and then copied that fan art to 90% Would that violate copy right? I dont know but it would be clear the intent was to violate copy right in spirit but do it within the confines of the law. Interesting for sure is AI was prompted to find a way to copyright IP legally. Its a whole new world.
Zinkr7x 2. feb. 2024 kl. 14:15 
Oprindeligt skrevet af bishop6363:
I dont know
I am very aware.

What you said in that horrendous response was the most nonsensical thing I've seen in regards to the Palworld copyright discussion. It legitimately sounds like you were drunk when you typed that. I can't even try to be respectful about it, it was something else on the level of crazy.

Oprindeligt skrevet af bishop6363:
What if the developers used an AI to scrub the internet for ALL Pokemon fan art and then copied that fan art to 90% Would that violate copy right? I dont know but it would be clear the intent was to violate copy right in spirit but do it within the confines of the law. Interesting for sure is AI was prompted to find a way to copyright IP legally. Its a whole new world.

I'll try to tackle what can only be described as insane ramblings, starting with intent. Intending to violate copyright doesn't matter too much. If you intent to violate copyright law but create something that is not copyright infringing, you did not violate copyright law. However, if you could prove someone was trying to copy you (and I mean copy, not make something similar), that is a huge factor in a copyright lawsuit.

A hypothetical "it's 90% the same as another art" doesn't really work or make sense. You cannot mathematically evaluate how much something is the same like that in cases of copyright/creative works. For example, take a Pikachu and a Green Pikachu. Only difference is the color. How much percent different is that? Is it like 1% different because only 1 thing was changed? Or is 95% different because the entire body of Pikachu is now a different color, so a majority of the creature is now different? Instead what you should look at is how different Green Pikcahu is just Pikachu, but Green. It has 1 whole difference, and it's still trying to be Pikachu but now is green. Another way I would put it, Copyright is well defined in the sense that you can easily figure out that the Pals in Palworld don't violate it or cross the copyright line, but is not defined enough to say where exactly the line is. Still, if I had to personally estimate it, a design would need to be probably not even 5% different for it to not violate copyright, but it's a meaningless number. Far more effective to look at say Asteroids vs Meteors, where it was found that Meteors shared 22 similarities with Asteroids and yet was still found to be a distinct game that is not violating copyright.

The AI jar is a whole 'nother can of worms. First off, this game didn't use AI. Not only was it being actively worked on far before AI got really good enough to use more competently, but AI still isn't at a level where you could rely on it to be legally distinct enough, which these designs are, without a doubt. And even if both of those weren't true, there's no evidence to prove they used AI, making it insane to bring up.

But let's say they did use AI. Well, there's a few things to consider.
1. Did the AI modify the art? or just refer to it? Modifying means they are using copyright protected art, so it's not good. But if it just learnt from it and made something similar, then it is fine, or at least should be fine. AI stuff is really new.
2. Can you prove the AI used or modify said fanarts? Probably not.
3. Was the fan art in question used fan art of existing Pokemon designs? Or just Fakemon? Because if it's not existing Pokemon designs, then Nintendo cannot sue Palworld over it, because they have no ownership of the work whatsoever.

Of course, something I want to highlight, you cannot "legally violate copyright", that's an oxymoron. You really just should have admitted you were wrong, people would have more respect for you.
Sidst redigeret af Zinkr7x; 2. feb. 2024 kl. 14:19
hotaru251 2. feb. 2024 kl. 14:26 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Donald J. Trump:
Other forms off direct rip offs exist. Nintendo is not going to sue.
nintendo themselves would get sued if they succeeded in suing Palworld & given how massive they are it would hurt them MUCH worse (as they'd have 2 decades of damages to pay for)

https://www.reddit.com/r/dragonquest/comments/1ac8p6f/showing_someone_dragon_warrior_and_they_say_the/

look at the side by side of Dragon Quest enemies & Pokemon. If Nintendo won vs Palworld Square Enix would use that as proof for Nintendo copying Dragon Quest.
Ikagura 2. feb. 2024 kl. 14:35 
Sue.
Crunchy[Daz] 2. feb. 2024 kl. 14:37 
You do understand that Steam sold a game that was literally, like, everything in the game a literal ripped asset from other games. They sold that, they accepted money for that until people called them out on it and they were forced to stop.

If no one called them out, they would have continued to allow people to buy it.
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