PocketPair's Note on the Company/Palworld and how they got here

[amrai.san]

Someone linked a really interesting post from the developer in one of the other threads, but I thought it would be great to discuss on its own, since it ties into a lot of people's questions and concerns. It also explains why it is so different compared to Craftopia.

It's a crazy long post in Japanese (browser's saying 49 pages printed, but the spacing is pretty large). It's an in-depth look (self-reflection?) of Pocket Pair and the development of Palworld.

Originally posted by YukkuRIM:

https://note.com/pocketpair/n/n54f674cccc40

TLDR/Can't Read:

ポケットペアはまともな会社ではないのだ。
Pocket Pair is not a "normal" company. (Google Translates this to "not a legitimate company" lol. Shows how close these things are in Japanese)

Basically it's a game company made by people who just loved games so much that they decided they wanted to make it themselves, even though they had no idea how.

They didn't manage Palworld's budget. It was barely completed. It cost about 1 billion yen (6.7 million USD as of today).

They didn't know where to go for someone skilled in making FPS animations in Japan (since they didn't want a language barrier during development), so they ended up finding on twitter a 20 year old convenience store part-timer with zero experience in game development who was obsessed with animating the reload actions of guns. He ended up becoming a full time member of the team working on multiple parts of Palworld.

They switched from Unity to Unreal Engine 4 (right after they finished the first trailer), since they hired a new top-level engineer who reached out because he liked Overdungeon and Craftopia. None of their current team or other hires had experience in Unreal, and most of the stuff they had used previously had been assets on Unity, so they had to start from scratch.

They didn't realize that because they wanted 100+ monsters, that they would have to make 100+ 3D models, each with 20+ animations. And they had no one on the team with experience making 3D models (they had always just bought assets before). Miraculously, an experienced motion designer reached out through an HR company (he had also liked Craftopia) and basically got it done.

会社が破綻する寸前、口座残高がゼロになるぐらいに、借金かリリースをすれば良いのだ。
"All we have to do is to release the game (or go into debt) before the bank account is zero and the company goes bankrupt"

They went from a team of 10 to 50, plus a lot of freelancers. They thought it would be 1 year of development, ended up being 3 years.

A newly graduated character designer that was turned down by 100 companies (including Pocket Pair initially) came back and re-applied, and ended up drawing the majority of the characters in Palworld.

He discusses the current state of the game industry, where developers are playing it safe, but therefore there is a limit to the potential of the game. For companies big or small, "just finishing the development of a game is an accomplishment". However, the big companies end up putting out "passably interesting games" (無難に面白いゲーム) by not challenging themselves and not taking risks.

Pocket Pair did not play it safe. They spent all the money, got extremely lucky with their hires, and they have made a game that they believe is hella fun.

He also mentions how they know they'll be written off as a rip-off of a bunch of other games, but he makes a few points comparing it to the closest comparable, Ark. (For anyone who's played them, the difference is clear so I won't translate)

"Pal World is a very interesting game, but I would like to add one point: it is not really for players who prefer story-focused single-player games, so please be aware of that."

In total: It's a miracle this game was made.


-------

My personal take:
As someone who purchased Craftopia, I am glad they went all-in on Palworld instead of focusing on Craftopia. They've developed a lot as a company (as described above), even though it sounds like they're flying by the seat of their pants and enjoying it as they do.

Palworld has blended FPS, monster hunting/taming, crafting management, all with functional co-op (and potentially pvp in the future). Instead of being slightly disappointed at every aspect like so many other games that have bit off more than they can chew, everything is actually better than you would expect. Surprisingly good FPS (head-shots critical on all of the big Pals so far), crafting is decent, the monster designs are more "alternate universe pokemon" instead of dollar store rip-offs, and the world has been pretty as well as interesting to explore. You can ride the Pals AND shoot AND throw a ball AND use their abilities. I have not had a game-ending crash and I started on Day 1 of EA. They have the "Respawn" option in the menu to save you if you get stuck. The difficulty is super customizable to your play style. It's miles better than a lot of other EA games (and some fully released games) I've played, and based on the article, I'm hoping for more content in the future.

[fluffy buny]

A newly graduated character designer that was turned down by 100 companies (including Pocket Pair initially) came back and re-applied, and ended up drawing the majority of the characters in Palworld.

it sounds like this designer may have been something of a liability

on the other hand, it also seems like their style of remixing Pokemon designs worked in the game's favor. controversy is how word of mouth gets around

though it does remain to be seen if TPC was actually just waiting for the game's release to start building a more comprehensive legal case against it. i don't find that likely but IANAL

[amrai.san]

They mention that they originally turned her down because her art style was a bit too stylized, but she ended up being very good with feedback. I don't think this person was the one doing the original concept art (first trailer) so she isn't the one who decided on the art direction. She seemed to have been hired during production.

As for the pokemon company; does no one remember Digimon? Legit a lot of you might not because it was before your time. Pokemon never sued them, and Digimon literally used half of the name as well as the entire concept and kind of just changed the back story for why these cute monsters are fighting on your behalf. If someone put a bunch of pokemon, digimon, and Pals in a row, most non-players would not be able to tell which one is from which game. But you can tell them all apart from one another.

[fluffy buny]

Palworld is in a much more gray area than Digimon though because pal designs are basically remixed Pokemon art assets. if you look at Surfent you will see Typhlosion's face. if you look at Dinossom you will see Meganium's face, and so on. the conceptual similarities are irrelevant because Digimon never decided to put Sylveon's features on Emolga and call it their own design. in copyright law, re-using a character's likeness is the thing that typically gets you in trouble barring overt piracy or something

that said, i still don't find a lawsuit particularly likely. it's just that there is more grounds for one than there has been for other properties like Digimon, Cassette Beasts, etc. there is still a lot of ambiguity on how the courts might see it

[Aidenel]

Originally posted by fluffy buny:

Palworld is in a much more gray area than Digimon though because pal designs are basically remixed Pokemon art assets. if you look at Surfent you will see Typhlosion's face. if you look at Dinossom you will see Meganium's face, and so on. the conceptual similarities are irrelevant because Digimon never decided to put Sylveon's features on Emolga and call it their own design. in copyright law, re-using a character's likeness is the thing that typically gets you in trouble barring overt piracy or something

that said, i still don't find a lawsuit particularly likely. it's just that there is more grounds for one than there has been for other properties like Digimon, Cassette Beasts, etc. there is still a lot of ambiguity on how the courts might see it

and if you look at Counter Strike you will see all the same guns as call of duty. So that game in turn is also a art flip now.

[Pingus]

Originally posted by Aidenel:

Originally posted by fluffy buny:

Palworld is in a much more gray area than Digimon though because pal designs are basically remixed Pokemon art assets. if you look at Surfent you will see Typhlosion's face. if you look at Dinossom you will see Meganium's face, and so on. the conceptual similarities are irrelevant because Digimon never decided to put Sylveon's features on Emolga and call it their own design. in copyright law, re-using a character's likeness is the thing that typically gets you in trouble barring overt piracy or something

that said, i still don't find a lawsuit particularly likely. it's just that there is more grounds for one than there has been for other properties like Digimon, Cassette Beasts, etc. there is still a lot of ambiguity on how the courts might see it

and if you look at Counter Strike you will see all the same guns as call of duty. So that game in turn is also a art flip now.

are you really going to compare art based off real life weapons to art that is extremely derivative of other companies fantasy characters? this is not an argument and you are abit silly.

[Aidenel]

Originally posted by Pingus:

Originally posted by Aidenel:

and if you look at Counter Strike you will see all the same guns as call of duty. So that game in turn is also a art flip now.

are you really going to compare art based off real life weapons to art that is extremely derivative of other companies fantasy characters? this is not an argument and you are abit silly.

Yes because 90% of pokemons are inspired by real life animals or myths.

[CeeRiL]

Not a fan of this game, but interesting story. PocketPair seems like a fresh start in outdated Japanese corporate culture, I hope they know what to do with their bank money now, especially in self-development.

[zziggarot]

Originally posted by amrai.san:

They mention that they originally turned her down because her art style was a bit too stylized, but she ended up being very good with feedback. I don't think this person was the one doing the original concept art (first trailer) so she isn't the one who decided on the art direction. She seemed to have been hired during production.

As for the pokemon company; does no one remember Digimon? Legit a lot of you might not because it was before your time. Pokemon never sued them, and Digimon literally used half of the name as well as the entire concept and kind of just changed the back story for why these cute monsters are fighting on your behalf. If someone put a bunch of pokemon, digimon, and Pals in a row, most non-players would not be able to tell which one is from which game. But you can tell them all apart from one another.

Digimon didn't really use ANY of pokemon's concept. The monsters use a heavily american comics inspired art style with bulging muscles and veins. None of the games are even slightly similar to pokemon's. Pokemon exists in a fantasy world where mons have replaced animals, while Digimon takes place in our own world and inside computers, Tron style. Even in the games with monster collecting mechanics they're more akin to Dragon Warrior Monsters where you lay out bait and befreind them after the fight.

Honestly Digimon's biggest issue is that their own games aren't even similar to each other half the time. But that also means we're VERY likely to see a Digimon/Palworld clone in the near future and I'm honestly looking forward to that more than whatever pokemon tries to cobble together.

The reason they can use "mon" in the name is because its short for "monster," something that quite literally is IMPOSSIBLE to copyright (though Monster energy drinks sure have been trying) since monsters appear in just about every fantasy media and exists as an idea.

[Martheon]

Originally posted by Pingus:

Originally posted by Aidenel:

and if you look at Counter Strike you will see all the same guns as call of duty. So that game in turn is also a art flip now.

are you really going to compare art based off real life weapons to art that is extremely derivative of other companies fantasy characters? this is not an argument and you are abit silly.

You DO realize that most pokemon are based off of real life animals and objects, and those that aren't are based off of mythological creatures, beings, and folklore, right?
A lot of pals are takes on Norse, Chinese, and Japanese folklore as well. If you compare the beings that they're trying to represent, you'll see that pokemon and many other series (including palworld) represent those figures very well. They all look like what they're trying to be, hence the similarities.
Pokemon does not own an art style (although you could argue that their take on humans is pretty unique and has its own style). Pokemon doesn't own the rights to a generic sheep or cat, nor do they own the rights to Kirin, djinn, or jormungandr.

Obviously there are a handful that took inspiration from pokemon, some that i would even say should be changed, but after going through them all, there aren't that many.

[Toosoft]

Originally posted by Martheon:

Originally posted by Pingus:

are you really going to compare art based off real life weapons to art that is extremely derivative of other companies fantasy characters? this is not an argument and you are abit silly.

You DO realize that most pokemon are based off of real life animals and objects, and those that aren't are based off of mythological creatures, beings, and folklore, right?
A lot of pals are takes on Norse, Chinese, and Japanese folklore as well. If you compare the beings that they're trying to represent, you'll see that pokemon and many other series (including palworld) represent those figures very well. They all look like what they're trying to be, hence the similarities.
Pokemon does not own an art style (although you could argue that their take on humans is pretty unique and has its own style). Pokemon doesn't own the rights to a generic sheep or cat, nor do they own the rights to Kirin, djinn, or jormungandr.

Obviously there are a handful that took inspiration from pokemon, some that i would even say should be changed, but after going through them all, there aren't that many.

i agree, i think there less than 10 pals looking something close to pokemon, everytime i heard a degenerate speaking of jormuntide as gyrados melt my brain, any chinese/japanese dragon style now is owned by pokemon ?

[fluffy buny]

ultimately i don't think any legal repercussions are about to happen, but i do think some of the existing designs could be improved on just for quality's sake if they looked more original and less like pokemon

namely:
- Ribbunny (conceptually fine, too emolga + sylveon in practice)
- Verdash (conceptually good, too cinderace + leafeon in practice)
- Anubis (too lucario, and is strangely the only pal without an original name)
- Jetragon (conceptually amazing, too latios/latias in practice)
- Dinossom (the Meganium-traced eyes are a bit too on-the-nose)
- Surfent (conceptually good, suffers from Typhlosion-face)

it turns out the actual concepts behind some Pals are more original and clever than the visual designs themselves, like Jetragon being a play on the word "tetragon". if they had taken more creative risks and made it like a low-poly model with tetragonal surfaces or something, instead of a latios with a few extra doodads, i'd respect the design a whole a lot more

[fluffy buny]

Originally posted by A. Silvermane:

Originally posted by fluffy buny:

- Anubis (too lucario, and is strangely the only pal without an original name)

I didn't realize Nintendo invented the Egyptian God Anubis

if the design were merely based on the same Egyptian god, it wouldn't look so much like Lucario

[The Former]

There needs to be a reward for an informative post. A fist bump shall have to do.

[A. Silvermane]

Originally posted by fluffy buny:

Originally posted by A. Silvermane:

I didn't realize Nintendo invented the Egyptian God Anubis

if the design were merely based on the same Egyptian god, it wouldn't look so much like Lucario

Sorry I deleted the comment as it was a bit of a tangent. Anyway back at you, have you stopped to consider the reason Palworlds Anubis and Pokemons Lucario look so simular is they share the same inspiration? Probably not.

Its exactly why Dragon Quests monsters and Pokemon's Monsters look so simular too, it wasn't that pokemon copied, they drew the same inspirations

[The Former]

Originally posted by fluffy buny:

Originally posted by A. Silvermane:

I didn't realize Nintendo invented the Egyptian God Anubis

if the design were merely based on the same Egyptian god, it wouldn't look so much like Lucario

It doesn't, tbh. Some differences:

- Anubis lacks Lucario's dangly things.

- Anubis is wearing actual Egyptian clothing. Lucario appears to be wearing shorts, but it's an implied illusion.

- Anubis has hands with five fingers and opposable thumbs (Interestingly, this is something he shares in common with the god Anubis); Lucario, three-fingered paws with huge spikes coming out the back.

- Anubis has a fluffy doglike tail. Lucario has a thin tail with a spiky offshoot.

- Anubis has rather human legs. Lucario has canine leg joints. Interestingly, this is also something he shares in common with the god Anubis.

- Anubis has a somewhat broad snout. Lucario's snout is thin and pointy.

- Anubis has very sharp ears that point straight up. Lucario's ears are more convex at the tips.

- Anubis has a fairly uniform torso-to-waist ratio with broad shoulders. Lucario is incredibly skinny at the top and broadens widely at the hips; shoulders are basically nonexistant, with arms coming right out of the torso.

Basically, the only true similarity between them is that they're both vaguely canine bipedals. I'd say Anubis has more visually in common with League of Legends' Nasus.