Melee Build Progression Question(s)

[Morkonan]

I'm playing a melee build for my first time through.

Both Azeos and Ivy are on farm status and I'm moving through Standard difficulty progression with no issues at all, as of yet.

I'm currently in all Scarlet Armor, using a Battleaxe, all upgraded/reinforced up to Octarine level. (I don't have that ore, yet) One can consider I have access to all the drops/gear up to that point. I've got some Poison built in using Skills and my pet, a Fanhare. I also use an Iron Shield and/or the Toxic Defender (Testing), an Iron Bow for plinking as needed, and a Skellie tome, for funsies and getting some levels in Summoning.

With my general build and as I have progressed, I can face-tank any of the bosses, with or without Food buffs. I have been practicing my Blocks and can pretty much take zero damage during any slime boss, but may have to move out of the way for some of Azeos's abilities. But, even he hits me with one, I take very minimal damage.

One can also consider I have all food combos up to this point and automated mining for all ores as well as all pet drops, with at least an Owllux and dog at 10. (But, not a good Owlux, hence the Fanhare to keep the poison up until I get a good Owllux drop.)

I'm learning the mechanics both through practice and looking at build guides to see how they're mixing their synergies. But, most of the guides and discussions focus on "end-game" builds with drops that aren't available until the very end-game... I guess they're focused on being able to roflstomp low bosses? For... a reason?

I've looked at Dakon's early build vids, a few others that touch on that as well, but can't really find much about how people are weaving their melee builds together. Therefore:


1. What would be a typical gear/armor progression after Scarlett for a melee build that is focused a bit on heavy AC, with crit/crit-damage and some Skill poison on top? Do I just keep pushing until the next series of bosses and the drops from them and their biomes?

2. I know Ranged is suggested for some of the next bosses and I won't be able to "face-tank" at least one of them. Will a gear-swap to Ranged, with no Skill adjusts, be adequate or do I need to do a full respec for something like Omoroth?


I have multiple sets of everything that drops up to, and including, Ivy and Azeos. All weapons, jewelry, trinkets, Polished Jewelry, etc. So, I can gear anything and have thousands of Ancient Coins.

[Martial Autist]

For armor I tend to use scarlet set > paladin set > scarab set. For accessories I use polished copper cross necklace and 2x mold ring, and then switch out the mold rings for polished golden spike rings. Off hand is rift lens until I can get concealed blade. Pet is crit chance owlux. Weapons are ritual dagger and blowpipe, then I replace ritual dagger with octarine axe, blowpipe with phantom spark, and add galaxite dagger as a 3rd weapon once able. This lets me use ranged and melee on one build. Since crit stats are universal, and scarab works for all physical dmg weapons and is best on very fast weapons (for consistent dps) or multi-hit weapons (for burst at the right moment).

For food I use desert and molten quarry fish, with golden crops. (I'm not at 1.0 content yet) Important food stats are melee dmg, ranged dmg, atk speed, crit chance, and crit damage. Also thorns food if you can get it, but I haven't made new stacks in ages and not behind my pc atm, so don't quote me on that last one. Before desert I just make something for move speed and just to keep me full.

[Vintorez]

Not really sure how to answer your question, you're basically saying "I've defeated every boss with minimal difficulty, will that be enough for future bosses?"

If you don't have a problem now, you probably won't later. Just upgrade your gear as you're able whether with the upgrade bench or from finding new pieces and keep going until something proves troublesome, if anything does. Then you can consider what might work instead.

That said I quickly turned away from melee in my playthrough since I decided to play on Hard Mode and just found it too risky. Therefore I don't know exactly what melee builds look like towards the mid and end game, I just found magic with the Arcane Staff to be OP for pretty much everything and rolled with that.

[SquirrelsBane]

My first melee build was based around life steal.
Starting with a good dagger for fast hitting weapon.
Using accessories like Clot Ring and Azeos Beak Necklace for life gain per hit.
Melee skill Fast and furious to further boost attack speed.

The Octarine armor and the shield give more attack speed.

It's more of assassin "Death by a thousand cuts" life steal build.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Martial Autist:

For armor I tend to use scarlet set > paladin set > scarab set. ...This lets me use ranged and melee on one build. Since crit stats are universal, and scarab works for all physical dmg weapons and is best on very fast weapons (for consistent dps) or multi-hit weapons (for burst at the right moment).

Yeah, I was planning on still using the ranged, here and there, as necessary, so similar thoughts on that. Thanks for the great details!

Originally posted by Vintorez:

Not really sure how to answer your question, you're basically saying "I've defeated every boss with minimal difficulty, will that be enough for future bosses?"

Well, that wasn't what I was trying to ask, but I also don't know what my future experience of the content is. There's a lot of gripes out there about melee and few people testifying that they don't have such problems. /shrug

Originally posted by SquirrelsBane:

My first melee build was based around life steal.
Starting with a good dagger for fast hitting weapon.
Using accessories like Clot Ring and Azeos Beak Necklace for life gain per hit.
Melee skill Fast and furious to further boost attack speed.

The Octarine armor and the shield give more attack speed.

It's more of assassin "Death by a thousand cuts" life steal build.

I thought about it and have some starter gear for that, but I don't think I'm quite there in terms of supporting it, yet. But, then again, straight regen looked pretty interesting too. Thee advantage is you don't have to hit anything... :) But, with the ridiculous food buffs you can get... Heck, it's just "stack on buffs and go" it seems. I would like to work in some Life Steal, though, to fill-in the cracks, now and then.


Thanks, all!

[The Autismo]

Just address your second question regarding needing to kit swap, Omoroth does begin to become overwhelming (In Hard Difficulty) due to the arena getting cluttered very fast, so ranged/mage would definitively make them a lot easier to defeat. However, thats not to say you can't use melee to defeat Omoroth, but you would need more catered weapons to their fight i.e The Anchor Axe, or switch your armor build over to a dodge build to "facetank" Omoroth without getting hit.

[Lahgtah]

For me, I used scarlet until Solarite.

The crit rate is just very nice for scarlet, and crit change in general is fairly easy to capitalize on early on. Octarine is pretty bleh in terms of bonuses as a full set(some individual pieces are good for mixing with other things, like for attack speed builds.)

Remember to use the upgrade bench or scarlet will start to feel awful after Azeos. Also if your crit chance gets very high, consider using crit damage necklaces/rings. Crit chance always will have diminishing returns in its value the closer to 100% you get. Not sure what the actual breakpoint is, but I'd say 50% ish is around enough to start focusing more on crit damage.

After I was able to reliably start getting solarite, I put that on and built a life-on-hit build around it:
Clot ring x2
Fusioned chunk necklace
Full solarite
Shield of choice(sentry shield is great for free damage, octarine is great for speed, hydra bone for more passive tankiness)
Orb Lantern(extra mining damage added to melee through miner's strength talent)
Rune Song(kind of annoying to get, but worth it for the extra hp and life on hit to get ASAP. Only thing that compares for swords is atlantean worm sword, which is very late game.)
All upgraded as much I can at any given time.
Owlux pet with attack speed and melee damage buffs

For food, rare spicy oat cereal for healing(golden pepper, golden bloat oat) and encased lava fish balls for life on hit and HP(Dark lava eater, beryll angle fish from lava and crystal waters respectively.)

The crit candy from the vending machines found in metropolises can be good too. Frenzy potions and guardian potions as necessary.

Of course, find and eat all perma-hp increases.

Melee skills: Fast and furious, stubborn fighter, seething blade, strength of ancients
Cooking: entire right side of the tree.
Max out crafting for free armor.

Basically, you'll be tanky enough to face-tank almost everything including late game bosses just by holding down the attack button. You'll be getting almost 60 or more life on hit when buffed while attacking rather quickly, with a huge health pool and decent armor protection. Use your shield to parry attacks when you can't be in range of a boss.
There are some attacks which are too damaging to heal through, so the move speed of the owlux and good parrying will come in clutch there. You probably won't need many health potions.

Can replace rune song with stormbringer but, then again, stormbringer is basically the "you beat the game" weapon, so of course it's insane.

[Nerevar]

there is no linear progression. you arent forced to beat any bosses beyond the first 3. you can instead get all the way to endgame gear without fighting any of the bosses needed to summon the final boss. biomes arent boss gated. nor gear gated really. aslong as you can break the blocks of a biome you can progress into it.

all you need is find the next ore in the next biome. not rocket science. so getting "endgame" gear is pretty simple in this game.

majority of boss drops are actually pretty terrible sadly. or they have like 1 good item. which you can still get with better gear.

sure you can fight the bosses in order but thinking this is a linear game where you must do things in order is.... simply wrong.

you can just get octarine ore and then move directly to the next ore etc.

there is bosses you simply wont be able to melee as you cannot block nor survive any dmg from them. like the new one. must keep distance or youll die.

thus endgame melee boils down to "get stormbringer asap" which doesnt require any boss drop.

[EchoSON]

You can kill every boss in the game with Scarlet armour and melee
even on Hard mode (which I've only ever played on)

That should tell you enough

Progression should come in min-maxing your rings and necklaces, leveling skills

But every item switch is optional
Upgrading gear can make pretty much any weapon work

[ninakoru]

Fang necklace, Clot ring and Morpha's Ring, Azeos' Feather and your scarlet armor, and you're set. The problem is, the sunken sea is horrible for melee, you better get a ranged/mage secondary build for it.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by The Autismo:

...or switch your armor build over to a dodge build to "facetank" Omoroth without getting hit.

"Dodgetank" was a valid term that we used to use in MMOs that would support it. :)

Originally posted by Lahgtah:

For me, I used scarlet until Solarite.
...
Use your shield to parry attacks when you can't be in range of a boss.
There are some attacks which are too damaging to heal through, so the move speed of the owlux and good parrying will come in clutch there. You probably won't need many health potions.
..

A wonderful, thorough, post! Thanks!

I haven't extensively tested it, since basically all I've had to do with bosses so far is stand there and keep hitting them until they die, occasionally Parrying to the rhythm of their attacks... But, can some of the weirder attacks from bosses be "Parried?" ie: No damage, not just "Blocked")

I really like having an actual Shield, though I should use it a heck of a lot more often during regular play, but I generally just don't take a lot of damage from regular mobs unless I get stuck on ground clutter in the middle of a pack.

Originally posted by Nerevar:

there is no linear progression. you arent forced to beat any bosses beyond the first 3. ...

Understood. But, the question was really about the typical suggested gear progression as in "what to hunt/work for, next" in terms of armor.

Originally posted by EchoSON:

...
But every item switch is optional
Upgrading gear can make pretty much any weapon work

I've been upgrading and reinforcing and that rings fairly true. A generally "good" weapon seems to be able to carry one very far with Upgrading in the mix.

Originally posted by ninakoru:

Fang necklace, Clot ring and Morpha's Ring, Azeos' Feather and your scarlet armor, and you're set. The problem is, the sunken sea is horrible for melee, you better get a ranged/mage secondary build for it.

Any thoughts on the Feather vs a Shield? I can understand its utility in some boss fights, so I may switch it out for those, but the Shield has some utility, as well. I just need to figure out what is worth blocking/parrying and what is something I must try to dodge/get away from. :)

So far, in the Sunken Sea, there's nothing there in terms of normal mobs that can really threaten me. The one case might be a bunch of crabs when I get stuck on ground clutter, but I've learned to navigate a few steps ahead. Tentacles don't do anything to me and the Bubbles from a crab aren't a problem. Caveling Scholars haven't done much to me, either. But, i generally kill them before they can. I haven't figuratively "conquered" that whole zone, yet, but I'll be building a rail-line through it tonight, most likely, and looking for a Octarine node to set drills on.

***

Thanks so much, all! Great stuff! In short, two questions:

1) I try to make the best use of my Shield as I can. But, while some effects/attacks by bosses are obviously not something one can Block (I assume) are there any "don't try to block/parry this attack/effect from Boss ___?" :)

2) Is the Skill that helps reduce damage to Armor not meant to work with Reinforcement? Or, not working with it? It seems that my Reinforcement on my Scarlett Armor gets eaten away fairly quickly. I'm thinking that either that Skill doesn't apply, isn't applying, or the damage I tank may need to be calculated against Armor that is higher level/upgraded? (I'll upgrade it tonight to test, now that I have much more Octarine.)

Thanks again, all! Great info!

[ninakoru]

Nothing wrong with shield, there are very good ones starting with Octarine shield, a bunch of armor, you can get good use of mid health and low health perks (30% health). At least in normal you get to be quite tanky with shield and thick armor (most crafted armor plus a few extra ones).

With feather is a different plastyle, I found myself at home with melee with 140-150% movement speed and timing the dash to get into range and sneak a few melee hits, hopefully killing the enemy before he slaps back, is easy to maintain the anger stacks and the crit stacks this way. You can also strafe a bit while attacking or in case of ranged enemies, strafe then dash after their attack.

[mihnt]

I have 90% dodge standing still and I'm wearing the solarite set so if I get hit, I can heal back up.

[Lahgtah]

Originally posted by Morkonan:

A wonderful, thorough, post! Thanks!

I haven't extensively tested it, since basically all I've had to do with bosses so far is stand there and keep hitting them until they die, occasionally Parrying to the rhythm of their attacks... But, can some of the weirder attacks from bosses be "Parried?" ie: No damage, not just "Blocked")

I really like having an actual Shield, though I should use it a heck of a lot more often during regular play, but I generally just don't take a lot of damage from regular mobs unless I get stuck on ground clutter in the middle of a pack.

AFAIK, everything that deals direct damage(meaning everything except damage-over-time debuffs) can be parried.

If you don't want to use a shield, such as on non-bosses, there are a few alternative off-hands with neat effects like feathers for dash, omoroth's beak for extra damage, pet rock to enhance pet abilities(which, with the owlux, buffs you in turn), and more. Lots of variety depending on playstyle. I just always travel with a shield since I like having the option to block/parry just in case. Sometimes there will be gank-rooms full of enemies that take you by surprise.

Additionally, for world combat, you may be interested in axes and crit/crit damage builds. Axes hit very hard, meaning they benefit a lot from crit builds, and have a wide swing great for cleaving multiple enemies. I still stand by the life-on-hit builds are great for boss fighting, but I believe crit builds are the way to go for clearing out large amounts of normal enemies with one-shots.

There's even a neat burn-damage build involving a set from igneous, a lava battle axe, smithing glove, and flame ring/necklace. It's pretty fun out in the world, but, imo, not the most ideal for boss fights in solo play. Works great in multiplayer if someone else can take the attention away for a second.

When it comes to just general world activity and farming out-leveled bosses, there's a lot of variety to play around with. Of course, any good build can still work out of its intended element, but if you really want to min-max your combat effectiveness for each situation, having a few different gear sets for different bosses and activities all sufficiently upgraded will be what you want to do. This does get expensive but your ability to gather materials only ever gets better the more you play. Drill arrays on boulder clusters with conveyor systems leading back to base will solve all your resource needs. Gold boulders are very useful for extra money once you've made all of the polished jewelry you want.

[Morkonan]

Originally posted by Lahgtah:

...
Additionally, for world combat, you may be interested in axes and crit/crit damage builds. Axes hit very hard, meaning they benefit a lot from crit builds, and have a wide swing great for cleaving multiple enemies. I still stand by the life-on-hit builds are great for boss fighting, but I believe crit builds are the way to go for clearing out large amounts of normal enemies with one-shots.

I'm using the Battleaxe, upgraded and reinforced, and it does wipe out anything regular mobs it hits when it crits. A typical fight, just on Standard difficulty, with a lot of mobs lasts for two swings of the axe, maybe three. A stack of Golems and Mages/whatever in the Forlorn Fortress doesn't stand a chance.

"Standard" difficulty may need to be retuned, slightly. I'm just in normally encountered gear, no progression leapfrogging in those terms, and I don't think anything has taken me down greater than around a 20% hit-point loss, with the exception of getting stuck twice on Coral Wood in the Sunken Sea and being surrounded by Crabs and Blue Jellies. I lived, but I think I was down to half HP before I extricated myself. Should have downed a health potion, I guess.

..Gold boulders are very useful for extra money once you've made all of the polished jewelry you want.

If I need any Ancient Coins, I'd sell a stack of Fishing Lures. Renewable currency and you get Crafting experience. (Shift the resources to Cooking, afterwards, if needed.) Though, gold doesn't seem to be in demand for key crafting other than a few bars, now and then. (Maybe Portals require the most?)

Originally posted by ninakoru:

Nothing wrong with shield, there are very good ones starting with Octarine shield, a bunch of armor, you can get good use of mid health and low health perks (30% health). At least in normal you get to be quite tanky with shield and thick armor (most crafted armor plus a few extra ones).

With feather is a different plastyle...

I'll likely need to make use of Az's Feather and/or at least some extra speed to get out of the way of certain effects in certain bossfights. And, Leech mechanics, too - If I want to be a "Facetank," I'll probably need a good bit of leech to power through the stuff I can't get away from or block.

****

Still looking for a verdict on "High Quality Equipment" and if it is in effect for Reinforcement points:

https://core-keeper.fandom.com/wiki/High_quality_equipment

I seem to lose a good bit of Reinforcement on Armor, much more than anticipated, after a typical foray into hostile areas, despite having it and "The Right Tools in the Right Hands" maxxed. (Maxxed out because I'm trying to be a melee/face-tank and can't Parry everything :)) The costs aren't something I can't bear, but if it follows typical "material of construction" costs, it could eat into low-supply stockpiles if I ever get faced with that. (Depending on the Armor. The Battleaxe is just Iron and doesn't seem to be as effected as Armor reinforcement.)

PS: Thanks for the replies, all! It really does help me get some planning together for goal-setting my play quite a bit!

[ninakoru]

Durability goes down pretty fast, if you're tanking damage often, will be an issue. I think it works with reinforced durability, not sure, just a matter of testing.