Feel like the entire game does it best to against magic.

[GodDam]

No mana potion, regen on delay, bum rushing enemy, the crystal trials spawn in bum rusher while your summon deals 200-300 dmg to thing that require 2000, and there 6 of them at once while you standing with 250 mana that run out after 10 cast.

[Eyeburn]

Ranged physical is 100% better than any magic option.

[Lucht]

There really need to be a way to permanently increase your mana points like you can with your hp. (If you can I haven't found a way) As well as being able to make mana potions.

That scholar's staff used to be my go to and now it's gathering dust in my invo. lol.

[Cheese.chr]

later magic staves are better, along with the magic set bonus are stronger
and if you are using summoning, despite your post title it is not really magic, it pairs really well with melee, bum rushing enemy are to your advantage

[GodDam]

Originally posted by Cheese.chr:

later magic staves are better, along with the magic set bonus are stronger
and if you are using summoning, despite your post title it is not really magic, it pairs really well with melee, bum rushing enemy are to your advantage

Oh please minion without set bonuses is as useful as cooking sunrice to swing your sword.

[happygiggi]

Lol, only arcane staff is viable thx to the high firerate and crit chance for refilling mana on hit.

[Abomination713]

Summoner is even worse. I bought the game as it hit 1.0 and tried to use summoner and it's terrible. Turns out they didn't even bother testing it to make sure it's a viable fighting style. Devs are a joke.

[GodDam]

Originally posted by happygiggi:

Lol, only arcane staff is viable thx to the high firerate and crit chance for refilling mana on hit.

Yep hit like a wet noodle tho. 2 shot thing Scholar's Staff felt alot better.

[Rauber Jenkins]

Lots of cry babies here. The summoner is not a warlock from WoW. I play the summoner, (use a magic staff or magic sword as secondary. Bow for backup in my bag) I also have a bird for my companion for his movement speed, since the second tome (Tome of the Deep) is a circle around the caster. Movement speed with summoner is very critical (imo.)

Don't forget the companions have RNG talents. (I rolled 5th bird who gave me three 5% movement increase buffs)

The summoner pets are actually really good, its the player who isn't that is complaining about them. The set bonus for summoner are pretty wicked. (Skull neck/ring/tome and the summoner set from the fire biome)

Each pet has its advantage and disadvantage. I am not sure why anyone is complaining about mana regen. The summoner gear has regen on it, reduce delay to regen.

Furthermore: Use the upgrade bench to upgrade your gear, I am guessing there is a good chance the people who think the summoner is awful don't utilize game mechanics:
Set bonus, companion bonus, reinforced items, food buffs and upgrade equipment.

[Ccrack]

there isnt really enough variety with magic equipment sets or weapons, especially weapons.

right now my go to is arcane monk with the magic schimitar and a chakram. the chakram does most of the heavy lifting and its a physical ranged weapon. the schimitar does tons of damage but it eats up mana so fast its retarded

only upside is that a lot of the ranged skill perks work with magic weapons. especially the crit boosting ones.

[Lorska]

Originally posted by Räuber:

-snip-

So I'm assuming you started with a completely new character and didn't just take some old character into the world that had really high skill levels?

Originally posted by Rauber:

Furthermore: Use the upgrade bench to upgrade your gear, I am guessing there is a good chance the people who think the summoner is awful don't utilize game mechanics:
Set bonus, companion bonus, reinforced items, food buffs and upgrade equipment.

I think the problem people have is that for every bonus and buff you get for summons you could just get for any other combat skill and it'll be stronger.
Yes I could increase the damage of my summons that deal a fraction of my own damage but why wouldn't I boost the thing that's actually doing the most of it?
The exception is the minion amount stat that beats out every other stat by a mile for magic ranged weapons if you maxed your skills. Not because having stronger summons is any good mind you, you'd just run a lvl 2 tome and buff yourself by having any minion...

tldr;
If you're good with using game mechanics you'll use them on anything except for summons until you got all skills (ranged, magic, summon at least) maxed out

[DoEFotGS]

It's laughable how unimpressive magic is.

Staff that shoot projectile, staff that shot another projectile, staff that shoot immolation projectile, staff that shoot small projectiles but faster... c'mon! Final mining weapon (which is nuts with mining to melee gear) is literaly a chain lightning. Why we has no this as magic?

Secondary use is also a joke. No any inspiration, just more projectiles or stronger projectile. Where is magic shield which is a buff to reduce damage while active? Where is forking projectile which seek nearest enemies after fork? Where is puddles that deal dot damage to any enemies that step into it? Where is rain of fire? =\

Even one magical melee weapon is flawed cos it even don't match mechanically with its own description.

And all of this has artificial limitation - 'mana', which makes non mana limited options much stronger and/or comfortable. Exception are exist (yeah, Arcane Staff with infinite mana from skills, I see you), but in general whole things about magic and mana feels underdeveloped and require a lot more time to finish and polish.

[Martial Autist]

Originally posted by Rauber Jenkins:

Lots of cry babies here. The summoner is not a warlock from WoW. I play the summoner, (use a magic staff or magic sword as secondary. Bow for backup in my bag) I also have a bird for my companion for his movement speed, since the second tome (Tome of the Deep) is a circle around the caster. Movement speed with summoner is very critical (imo.)

Don't forget the companions have RNG talents. (I rolled 5th bird who gave me three 5% movement increase buffs)

The summoner pets are actually really good, its the player who isn't that is complaining about them. The set bonus for summoner are pretty wicked. (Skull neck/ring/tome and the summoner set from the fire biome)

Each pet has its advantage and disadvantage. I am not sure why anyone is complaining about mana regen. The summoner gear has regen on it, reduce delay to regen.

Furthermore: Use the upgrade bench to upgrade your gear, I am guessing there is a good chance the people who think the summoner is awful don't utilize game mechanics:
Set bonus, companion bonus, reinforced items, food buffs and upgrade equipment.

Even with all that summoning is terrible. It only exists to spam unleveled bat tome for magic barrier, to buff magic damage with arcane staff. Damage-wise they have the exact same problem as combat pets. Too low damage and can't be directed. There is a reason everyone and their grandmother is saying they are bad.

It's not just a player here or there that somehow just doesn't know how to play, use upgrade bench, or cook food. Some of us here have around 5x your playtime or more.

Originally posted by Lorska:

I think the problem people have is that for every bonus and buff you get for summons you could just get for any other combat skill and it'll be stronger.
Yes I could increase the damage of my summons that deal a fraction of my own damage but why wouldn't I boost the thing that's actually doing the most of it?
The exception is the minion amount stat that beats out every other stat by a mile for magic ranged weapons if you maxed your skills. Not because having stronger summons is any good mind you, you'd just run a lvl 2 tome and buff yourself by having any minion...

^ This

[GodDam]

Originally posted by Rauber Jenkins:

Lots of cry babies here. The summoner is not a warlock from WoW. I play the summoner, (use a magic staff or magic sword as secondary. Bow for backup in my bag) I also have a bird for my companion for his movement speed, since the second tome (Tome of the Deep) is a circle around the caster. Movement speed with summoner is very critical (imo.)

Don't forget the companions have RNG talents. (I rolled 5th bird who gave me three 5% movement increase buffs)

The summoner pets are actually really good, its the player who isn't that is complaining about them. The set bonus for summoner are pretty wicked. (Skull neck/ring/tome and the summoner set from the fire biome)

Each pet has its advantage and disadvantage. I am not sure why anyone is complaining about mana regen. The summoner gear has regen on it, reduce delay to regen.

Furthermore: Use the upgrade bench to upgrade your gear, I am guessing there is a good chance the people who think the summoner is awful don't utilize game mechanics:
Set bonus, companion bonus, reinforced items, food buffs and upgrade equipment.

i tried it, upgrade it till it require jade, its not as good as having an ember tail with full crit sorc and arcane staff.
You have to run into thing to deal dmg, are you going to run into mass slime bosses?
I get it you can get up to 6 summon, each can deal up to 200 and they can crit hard.
But here the thing tho. i can do the same dmg output via Arcane and on a much higher dps at range.
Summoner is a joke.
You start over as a ranger and just steam roll through things. compare to the magic classes.

[Noop]

You can easily get to 8k dps in other builds than summoner. You can cope real hard and call the mage/summoner build that uses summons to boost magic a summoner build so it could compete (which it still can't), but that doesn't really solve the issue.

I have a feeling a certain person in here defending summons plays the game on easy or normal. Yea who would have guessed that your build doesn't matter in a game for kids if you play on easy mode. That's not really what people are complaining about.

[Soren]

Originally posted by happygiggi:

Lol, only arcane staff is viable thx to the high firerate and crit chance for refilling mana on hit.

Yeah, this build is insane especially with minion skill tree buffs. Use an 8 minion set. 80% increased range speed. 80% increased magic damage. 600 increased max barrier HP. Which translates to +300 damage on each of your shots.

You take the ranged skills that proc on the arcane staff too. Like 100% crit chance for 3 seconds. And the moment you hit that proc your DPS is literally around 10k per second and you insta-nuke most bosses while your mana goes up instead of down. It's insane.

Honestly, the DPS on the arcane staff with crits is more like 25k+ per second once you trigger the auto-crit proc if you're maxed out on everything. It's just 10k atm for me because I'm not using 120% damage buffing food, nor have I maxxed my summoning/magic skills yet to get all those bonuses.