Weapons are dull and mechanically uninspired.

[Beans McCoy]

I'm simply going to explain my largest bugbear with Core Keeper so far at 50+ hours. Fine if no one else agrees, this is very opinion based, but I'm certain that I can't be alone in this. For the purposes of this, I will be ignoring weapon abilities, though similar criticisms still apply, considering that there are only a few weapon abilities, and they're also boring (and not very useful).

The weapons in Core Keeper are dull, categorically the same, and mechanically uninspired. I think many of the weapons are visually interesting later in the game, like the Galaxite Chakrams are quite pretty, but it still behaves in precisely the same manner as every other thrown weapon.

A sword slashes the same as any other sword, a bow shoots the same as every other bow, staffs shoot the same magic balls, etc etc. There are like six categories of weapons, and everything within those categories pretty much behaves in the exact same manner as every other weapon in that category, regardless of rarity or progression. The bubble gun being the only real outlier in the literal entire arsenal. Not to mention that spears, daggers, axes, and swords, despite technically being different melee weapon types, also basically all function the same. So there's more broadly only 3 or 4 categories of weapon.

Anyway, that's enough griping. Let me get to the actual point here. A comparison between Core Keeper's uninspired arsenal, to games that have memorable and fun arsenals. And to do so, let us examine two games here as examples of how to make more appealing weapons. Terraria (the obvious example), and something more recent and also top-down, Tiny Rogues.

One of the most appealing things about Terraria to me is the variety of equipment in the game, not quantity, but unique variety mechanically and functionally. The first few tiers of weapons are basic, this makes sense, an iron sword is super basic. But then you start getting slowly introduced to weapons that do more special things, like when you come across a magic boomerang that lights up the area around the projectile, or arrows that bounce off of walls. Then it all goes off of the rails in the best way possible mid to late game, and every single weapon is unique in how it functions. No two swords do the same thing, and no sword is just a stick to swing. You have swords that summon stars from the skies, laser cannons, water spewing flowers, Nyan cat cannons, it's a madhouse and it's BRILLIANT! Core Keeper absolutely needs to take some notes from what makes Terraria's arsenal so incredible.

Now, I'm using Tiny Rogues as an example because the weapon designs are a bit more finely focused, but every one is still quite different. One of the things that makes Tiny Rogues so enjoyable is how crunchy all the stats and numbers are, and there's certainly some of that to a smaller degree happening in core keeper. Like building around a particular stat or debuff for example. But beyond numbers, every weapon has differences ranging from slight, to major. Let's look at instrument weapons. So a low tier like the Banjo fires a single projectile, at a moderate rate, with a low amount of target tracking. Then you have something that fires faster for similar damage, but has no tracking. Or another that fires a spread of three projectiles, slowly, with moderate tracking. Or the guitar that fires one projectile but also chain lightning. My point on this example is that even smaller tweaks like that can make a large difference in creating weapons that feel unique. That make you want to use them beyond just being a direct numbers upgrade. Also one small thing about Tiny Rogues, all melee weapons are a projectile that travels forwards a short distance. I think this would also be quite nice to implement in Core Keeper on most melee weapons, just a simple extension of the weapon range by one or two tiles.

Coming back to core keeper, none of what I've given as examples really exists in Core keeper. Even the Ricochet Shuriken, that EXPRESSLY STATES that it bounces off of walls, does no such thing whatsoever. It's still just a single projectile, with no special affects, nothing.

Anyway, whilst I've greatly enjoyed the game, I'm so so so disappointed by the weapons. By the time I got to scarletite I wasn't even looking forward to or excited at the thought of upgrading my gear anymore. It was just number increases to progress. Nothing to look forward to, nothing to explore or learn, gear upgrades and discoveries simply ceased to have any real meaning. The gear in Core Keeper is simply un-fun, and uninspired. Weapons in specific need a complete redesign from about iron to endgame.

Here are some ideas off of the top of my head:
- A shotgun... why does this need suggesting?
- A crossbow that fires a single projectile, that then splits into a multishot after traveling a handful of tiles.
- A magic weapon that fires a slow moving homing projectile.
- A magic flame thrower.
- Chain lightning?
- Bouncing thrown weapons that actually bounce.
- A sword that fires a secondary laser beam.
- A cluster bomb launcher. Maybe that actually arcs to where your cursor is pointing and not just a straight line.
- A chain sword that hits rapidly for low damage with stacking bleed (and solid particle effets)
- Rotating or player radius based weapons
- Infectious poison that can spread
- A weapon that causes AoE explosions of crit hits
- A sword or thrown weapon that has an arc based on mouse cursor location

The possibilities are endless.

Thank you for reading my ♥♥♥♥♥♥ essay.

TLDR: Weapons boring. Make weapons gud and fun.

[Wild]

100% the game today and i was going to make the same post now lol. Coudn't agree more.
The only apsect of the game that really felt poor were the weapons. Except the shuriken every other weapon is super basic and boring.
Not saying that a crossbow shoudnt shoot like a crossbow, but having at least one crossbow with sticky hooming exploding arrow is more fun and give some diversity. xD

[Senor Smoke]

i kind of like that every weapon is the same as all the others but with one extra attribute. it seems dull until you get to the end-game upgrade station & then it clicks why it works that way. i dont come to core keeper for diablo 3-style weapon grinding, the fact that the weapons *arent* the novelty is kind of relaxing -- after you get to the endgame you just pick the weapon with the attribute you prefer & keep it current
or to put it another way; the weapons arent supposed to be whats interesting about the game, they're supposed to hook into the other mechanics of the game in an interesting way. the iron sword just has increased swing speed over other swords -- which makes it a better & more interesting sword than if every time you swung it it fired out enemy seeking lightning bolts or w/e because a sword that swings faster is better for harvesting mushrooms from a shroom farm

complexity for complexity's sake is not a wise investment of an indie dev's time. unique weapons take as long to implement as a new (minor) mechanic (bc thats what they are), theyre only unique if theyre the only weapon that has it which means they don't scale at all, and players will only use like 1 or 2 weapons all game regardless of how many unique weapons there are in a game. people will experiment with each unique weapon they find, then throw them in the trash & go back to using their +20% attack speed iron sword all game anyway even if there are 2,000 unique weapons that took as long to implement as all of the rest of the game combined, so why not skip all of the fuss and just have 0 unique weapons and get the same end result anyway
(PS, this is why Blizzard outsourced items for D4. even Activision is finding this to be a bad use of their finite devtime)

[IonDrako]

Originalmente postado por Senor Smoke:

i kind of like that every weapon is the same as all the others but with one extra attribute. it seems dull until you get to the end-game upgrade station & then it clicks why it works that way. i dont come to core keeper for diablo 3-style weapon grinding, the fact that the weapons *arent* the novelty is kind of relaxing -- after you get to the endgame you just pick the weapon with the attribute you prefer & keep it current
or to put it another way; the weapons arent supposed to be whats interesting about the game, they're supposed to hook into the other mechanics of the game in an interesting way. the iron sword just has increased swing speed over other swords -- which makes it a better & more interesting sword than if every time you swung it it fired out enemy seeking lightning bolts or w/e because a sword that swings faster is better for harvesting mushrooms from a shroom farm

complexity for complexity's sake is not a wise investment of an indie dev's time. unique weapons take as long to implement as a new (minor) mechanic (bc thats what they are), theyre only unique if theyre the only weapon that has it which means they don't scale at all, and players will only use like 1 or 2 weapons all game regardless of how many unique weapons there are in a game.

Hard disagree with you, the upgrade table makes it worse because some low tier weapons/tools when upgraded are just better then the higher tier stuff because the high tier stuff do literally nothing different then base stuff other than having a different number. And saying complexity for the sake of complexity is just wrong outright. Interesting weapons are almost the main reason to play a boss romp rpg like this or terraria. If you aren't excited for what you can get from something then there's almost no drive to go for it. The only thing the upgrade table does is raise the numbers on items so as long as the damage from the unique properties scaled then anything would still be viable. The only reason people mainly use the same stuff currently is because there's basically no difference as OP said. If weapons had actually interesting differences people would be swapping to different stuff through-out a run and even in end game trying different setups till they found what they liked most. This isn't diablo stuff, it's terraria which this game is seemingly going for terraria esque game stuff. With a world that has progression and main goals being around temples, resource farming and mainly bossing and as such the rewards for said bossing and exploring/farming need to be exciting or worth it and not just a different sprite of something that exists already that does a different number of damage.

[Wild]

Melee weapons badly need some love.

Like a Seedler, or a Meowmere, or a Starfury....
Still melee damage, but with some range and a gimmick that make them different from eachother.

I tried to use a melee build on hard, and wasnt very fun.

[Beans McCoy]

Originalmente postado por Senor Smoke:

i kind of like that every weapon is the same as all the others but with one extra attribute. it seems dull until you get to the end-game upgrade station & then it clicks why it works that way. i dont come to core keeper for diablo 3-style weapon grinding, the fact that the weapons *arent* the novelty is kind of relaxing -- after you get to the endgame you just pick the weapon with the attribute you prefer & keep it current
or to put it another way; the weapons arent supposed to be whats interesting about the game, they're supposed to hook into the other mechanics of the game in an interesting way. the iron sword just has increased swing speed over other swords -- which makes it a better & more interesting sword than if every time you swung it it fired out enemy seeking lightning bolts or w/e because a sword that swings faster is better for harvesting mushrooms from a shroom farm

complexity for complexity's sake is not a wise investment of an indie dev's time. unique weapons take as long to implement as a new (minor) mechanic (bc thats what they are), theyre only unique if theyre the only weapon that has it which means they don't scale at all, and players will only use like 1 or 2 weapons all game regardless of how many unique weapons there are in a game. people will experiment with each unique weapon they find, then throw them in the trash & go back to using their +20% attack speed iron sword all game anyway even if there are 2,000 unique weapons that took as long to implement as all of the rest of the game combined, so why not skip all of the fuss and just have 0 unique weapons and get the same end result anyway
(PS, this is why Blizzard outsourced items for D4. even Activision is finding this to be a bad use of their finite devtime)

The upgrade table actually would play perfectly with extremely unique weapons. The only downside of weapons that have drastically different mechanical functionality from one another is when you find one you like but then are later forced to switch simply because it no longer can do the damage that a newer weapon can.

The upgrade table solves this problem. This way, say you find that cool gun that, idk, shoots spiraling bouncy bullets, and you love it to death, you can continue to upgrade it to keep the damage and stats relevant throughout the entire game. This means that you CAN make wild diversity in weapon functionality while still maintaining relevance for literally every piece of equipment in the game. I think it fits perfectly.

[Beans McCoy]

Originalmente postado por twitch.tv/OGWild:

Melee weapons badly need some love.

Like a Seedler, or a Meowmere, or a Starfury....
Still melee damage, but with some range and a gimmick that make them different from eachother.

I tried to use a melee build on hard, and wasnt very fun.

Agreed. Melee weapons are not only the most dull weapons, but due to the limitations of range, they're at a wild disadvantage to anything else. This could also be improved by implementing invincibility frames so you don't just get stacked out by 8 hit-boxes colliding with you simultaneously in half a second.

What I wouldn't give for a damn Starfury in Core Keeper T_T

[Beans McCoy]

Originalmente postado por twitch.tv/OGWild:

100% the game today and i was going to make the same post now lol. Coudn't agree more.
The only apsect of the game that really felt poor were the weapons. Except the shuriken every other weapon is super basic and boring.
Not saying that a crossbow shoudnt shoot like a crossbow, but having at least one crossbow with sticky hooming exploding arrow is more fun and give some diversity. xD

I absolutely think that it's appropriate that earlier tier weapons are basic and simple. That the first bow you get is just... well a bow lol. But then if you like that, the upgrade table lets you keep using it forever! But I don't need the same damn weapon reskinned 8 times with slightly different stats...

[glass zebra]

After trying the game for a bit and reading the skill trees, it seemed that most stuff is just random passive buffs or procs with most not offering much of a build and combat (and frankly the other skill trees too) seemed to have the design of "stuff happens sometimes. just keep hitting" and it did not look great for what the game might have to offer down the line. I thought "maybe at least the later weapons choices themselves change combat quite a lot and offer different playstyles" and then then found this and frankly just refunded the game.

I think there is a big reason why combat is not one of the big points on the store's feature list. Not sure if they want to tackle that before 1.0 or just have combat as a "thing that happens" but mostly building+grind/automation with farming sim and exploration.

[Raymond]

Excellent point. The 1.0 release has the same problem. I want to love this game but it bores me to tears

[Torbes3186]

Originalmente postado por Raymond:

Excellent point. The 1.0 release has the same problem. I want to love this game but it bores me to tears

This 100% agree.

[TheClosetSkeleton]

Honestly, the terraria comparison feels pretty disingenuous. Like sure, both games have tier-based progressions, but that's it.

From there, they both aim for a completly different experience. Terraria is focused on combat, and really only that. Sure there's funny structures and some lore if you really look for it, but everything in that game was made with a gameplay mecanic in mind, to serve progression.

It's a power fantasy, which is very fun to play and discover, but isn't what core keeper either pretended or claimed to be. This is, first and foremost, an exploration game. Planning, exploring and crafting stuff, especially structures is at the core (pun intended) of the game.

Bosses serves as road-blocks and threats to that progress, to encourage player to use explore the environment to find an edge in the upcomming battles. It's purposefully obtuse, and creates a certain sense of terror for explorers, especially in late game, when you get into areas and you know that if you ♥♥♥♥ up the things in there will kill you and set you back.

Terraria is a game that encourage trying again when you fail, this one tells you "find something else".

Lastly, to adress weapons specifically, weapons alone never were the main way to deal damage, it's armors, specifically sets and special abilities. The shaman mask in early game, which if use correctly creates a build focused on dot application and early trigger of said damage.

The Ivy set and poison scycle in azeos wilderness, grants melee users the ability the vaporise plenty of enemies by abusing poison application, which can be boosted through gardening.

Or some unique end game tool like the stormbringer which quite literally makes miners more powerfull than godsent melee builds.

Lastly, that type of gameplay shines in co-op the most, the way the game was intended to be played, as you can build characters for sustains or buffs in order to make fighting easier for others

Point is, the variety is there, not much but there, and if you went into this game expecting terraria levels of combat, you set yourself for disappointement. Both games are good in their own right, and ripping into a perceived lack in this game whilst completly ignoring the intent behind certain choices feels like a dishonest approach to critisism, especially when their are some valid ones in it.

One being summoners, they have some variety to them, but if you are playing solo you cannot run warlock. There are not enough tomes to play with, and the scaling is too poor.

Or the fact that non-magic armors tend to be too generic, which helps a lot of builds, but are a bit of a let down for the exploration part, since (unless you are running a magic class) every build starts to feel the same the more you progress.

Variety of weapons isn't the problem this game supposedly suffers from, is that it's trying to please every type of gameplay with every piece of equipement, instead of pushing into what the early game offers with unique piece you can build around, instead of just "grind x stuff to get you class set at x step of the game".

So somewhat agree to your overall point, but I feel like you come from the wrong place when you approach this game with critisism.

[Koumori]

Contentious opinion, I know, but I don't mind the melee/ranged weapons being a bit samey; I enjoy how grounded it feels to swing a sword and not have it shooting laser beams or waves of fire or whatever, and weapons are still differentiated by attack pattern (e.g. slow, wide-swinging axe vs. fast, short-thrusting dagger) as well as subtle differences such as crit rate and status effects. I love Terraria, and Core Keeper is indeed similar in many regards, but I don't play Core Keeper for the same reasons as Terraria; I play Core keeper for a more methodical and down-to-earth experience.

I suppose I wouldn't mind if in addition to the more-or-less ordinary weapons that make up most of the current selection of armaments, they also added a broader selection of "wacky" weapons like the bubble gun... so long as I can keep my plain old basic weapons competitive using the upgrade table.

[Noop]

I agree on this. I think I'm currently in midgame and I found all 3 tomes, couple of melee and thrown weapons and the only thing that doesn't feel awfull are thrown weapons. The chakram bouncing off of walls is insanely good.
Melee having the issue to approach an enemy and hit it while not significantly dealing more damage just feels bad and like I'm being punished for no reason just cuz I chose this play style.
Summon AI is terrible. It's a cool idea but there are just 3 summons, and the jellyfish is quite useless. I'm playing a summoner to NOT be next to enemies, cuz then I would want to be tanky, but that's what the jelly wants you to do. Summoner in general feels terrible and that's very disappointing cuz it's such a cool idea.

Couldn't try out magic cuz I got 0 drops for it. Best I got so far are 2 sorc armor pieces.

[Scissorhands]

Just to add to this, Necesse has far better gearing and weapon variety in general. All classes are powerful and summons whip around ripping everything apart. There are some OP gear sets you can put together by the end game.

Also the bonus of light colony management to break up the monotony.

It does come with the downside of being less pretty, and also it is all split up in to small maps which kinda sucks.

I wish these two devs got together to make one great game, instead of 2 pretty good games.

[Tom (68inchPianist)]

There is a late-game staff that is basically Random ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Go! which baffled me, because it has so many cool different things it *can* fire; it would have been amazing if some of them were built in to earlier game staves...