Bosses are a joke and I ain't laughin...

[WizzyOoze]

Regular cavelings give me a harder time endgame than all bosses combined. Literally first try no-hit all of them except the very first one.

Side notes:
I'm on hard difficulty.
There was never a reason to use any accessories that don't give damage all the patters are too easy and bosses too slow.

P.S.
Way too easy. Almost makes me give a bad review but i still like the game.
P.P.S.
I wanna know how everyone else felt about the bosses.

[stealthXG]

Funny, now do it again but as melee.

[Koumori]

I find the bosses to be pretty trivial myself, though clearly not to the same degree as you. I did ultimately beat all but one* of the bosses on the first try, but there were mistakes made each time.

That said, I still enjoyed most of the boss fights; I don't always need my skills and reflexes to be pushed to their limits to have a good time, and when that is what I'm looking for, I'll boot up a souls-like. My only complaint here would be that the giant slimes started feeling kind of repetitive and uninspired after the first couple.


*Ra-Akar being the exception, who took me down before I got the hang of dealing with its homing projectiles.

[xOnexEyedxWolfx]

game is made for very young kids clearly no real challenge. or any drive to make it a tougher game

[Bridie]

This is really interesting feedback! We actually get quite a lot of feedback in the other direction from people suggesting the bosses are very challenging in some places. Definitely goes to show how different everyone's game experiences are. I know I'd definitely be interested in hearing how everyone in this thread thinks the bosses could be improved in terms of difficulty!

[Koumori]

Originally posted by Bridie:

I know I'd definitely be interested in hearing how everyone in this thread thinks the bosses could be improved in terms of difficulty!

It takes much more work than just bumping up the boss HP/damage, but I believe the best option would be changing the boss attack patterns to be faster and more aggressive; a simple increase in numbers would only make the bosses feel tediously spongy rather than challenging.

Originally posted by Bridie:

We actually get quite a lot of feedback in the other direction from people suggesting the bosses are very challenging in some places.

I've noticed this to a certain degree as well, from people asking for strategies or other help beating bosses. For this reason, any increase to difficulty should definitely be opt-in, either by following in Terraria's footsteps and adding an "expert" difficulty setting, or by adding optional "true/empowered/corrupted/[other adjective denoting higher difficulty]" boss summoning idols that allow you to have a more challenging rematch (maybe with greater rewards?).

[stealthXG]

Originally posted by Bridie:

This is really interesting feedback! We actually get quite a lot of feedback in the other direction from people suggesting the bosses are very challenging in some places. Definitely goes to show how different everyone's game experiences are. I know I'd definitely be interested in hearing how everyone in this thread thinks the bosses could be improved in terms of difficulty!

I think they need a bit of work in terms of balance in regards to range/melee class. Some bosses as melee is too much trouble, or near impossible such as the ocean worm boss forcing you to use range.

[Koumori]

Originally posted by stealthXG:

I think they need a bit of work in terms of balance in regards to range/melee class. Some bosses as melee is too much trouble, or near impossible such as the ocean worm boss forcing you to use range.

I can't speak for the developer's intentions, of course, but I don't think you're intended to limit yourself to one or the other. It's not like some games where if you want to use ranged weapons you need to equip nothing but ranged-focused armor and accessories to do more than pea shooter damage; heck, most damage boosting equipment in this game apply their bonuses to melee and ranged equally.

Basically, if you're not carrying a melee weapon AND a ranged weapon to deal with different circumstances, you're doing a form of challenge run.

[stealthXG]

Originally posted by Koumori:

Originally posted by stealthXG:

I think they need a bit of work in terms of balance in regards to range/melee class. Some bosses as melee is too much trouble, or near impossible such as the ocean worm boss forcing you to use range.

I can't speak for the developer's intentions, of course, but I don't think you're intended to limit yourself to one or the other. It's not like some games where if you want to use ranged weapons you need to equip nothing but ranged-focused armor and accessories to do more than pea shooter damage; heck, most damage boosting equipment in this game apply their bonuses to melee and ranged equally.

Basically, if you're not carrying a melee weapon AND a ranged weapon to deal with different circumstances, you're doing a form of challenge run.

That just brings me back to my initial point, it's not balanced. What's the point of having melee/range stats if you're gonna be forced to use the other?

[Quyzbuk]

Assuming the OP fought the bosses honestly (which is to say, actually saw their mechanics instead of hiding far away and range attacking them offscreen), I find it a little hard to believe that they got a no-hit on Omoroth and Ra-Akar first try. Those two fights are pretty exciting and can get quite intense if your movement and CC is lacking.

Originally posted by Bridie:

This is really interesting feedback! We actually get quite a lot of feedback in the other direction from people suggesting the bosses are very challenging in some places. Definitely goes to show how different everyone's game experiences are. I know I'd definitely be interested in hearing how everyone in this thread thinks the bosses could be improved in terms of difficulty!

I wouldn't disagree that some bosses could use a speed boost and/or other adjustment here and there though, particularly Azeos, but this includes the slime bosses as well. Without going into an essay on the matter, the main thing that needs to be addressed before 1.0 - they NEED to aggro, no matter where they are hit from. Some bosses just do not trigger their cycles if you hit them from far enough away, if they even react at all. Update their AI, rework ranged combat, whatever, this is a game-breaking bug though that needs to be addressed ASAP.

[arkkumanu]

Not every game needs to be about learning to press the right buttons at the right millisecond, with no room for error. I found the boss difficulty to be just fine on normal. The more you prepare in advance, the easier the actual fight will be, which feels fair to me. I appreciate that you can compensate for poorer playing ability, by spending extra time to get better equipment, skills, food buffs and potions. :3

Each boss has a unique aspect to the fight, and there are different ways of solving it. Of course, you can always use the same weapon, if you really want to, but it may make things harder/easier or faster/slower. I think that's a pretty balanced way to design bosses. I mean, I'd prefer to cowardly shoot all the bosses from afar, but it's refreshing to have to use different weapons and tools, even if only for efficiency's sake. xD

Azeos and Omoroth are my favorite boss fights, because there is so much going on in both. I was wildly unprepared for both on the first try, and had to stop and return to base for more appropriate equipment. :D

[Niwoh]

Slightly off-topic maybe, but I do wonder what people are doing so drastically different in core keeper and similar games, there's always so many people that seem to struggle with difficulty in games that I thought were pretty easy.
10 years ago I would have thought maybe I just have good reflexes or something but, although I'm not exactly super old yet, my reflexes and mechanical skill these days are definitely far from what they once used to be so clearly that's not the reason lol.

That being said, this is a chill game imho so the bosses being rather easy is fitting, although I certainly wouldn't mind a "terraria master mode"-esque option.

[CLdumbASS]

I feel like in explorer/builder games, bosses being hard really isn't the point of the game, so it's fine if they're easy or cheesable (especially the latter). The only boss I had trouble with so far is the caveling one, because he resets stupidly easily and the fire patterns can get out of control really fast, especially if he lays fire down then teleports for a charge attack *from* the only safe direction wrt the fire. Honestly still not sure the trick to that guy.

Azeos is my favorite of the ones I've done, because its patterns actually make sense and feel fair. Something you can figure out even if you haven't fought him before, after a few (survivable) mistakes. Except that one pattern where lightning comes in a chaotic mess, screw that pattern.

Anywho, I feel like the ideal spot for bosses would be if they're *doable* but challenging no-hit style, but also have tricks to them that trivialize them if you figure them out. This lets people do their challenge runs while still letting others do it the hard way for kicks if they want. From that perspective, the first three bosses are all great, Azeos is a little rough but poison alone is a big help. Caveling one still sucks lol.

My biggest pet peeve is bosses that easily leash/reset. That, quite frankly, can ♥♥♥♥ right off. I understand having them walk back and start to regenerate (like the slime), but a full instant reset is just stupid, especially if they do so in a very tight radius.

[DY5L3X14]

Originally posted by Bridie:

I know I'd definitely be interested in hearing how everyone in this thread thinks the bosses could be improved in terms of difficulty!

Here ya are Bridie, this is bosses done so, so well...

https://store.steampowered.com/app/955740/Mini_Healer/

Totally different genre etc. etc. but some of the ideas behind boss mechanics are sublime.

Edit: Also a damn good fun game btw.

[Pheonix Fontaine]

I guess difficulty sums up oddly in this. The hardest boss for me has been the Hive Mother when not cheesed, but after some gear upgrades it's negotiability not very difficult. This was largely because RNG played some part in that fight and my world's spawn. The way the acid, mobs, spikes and pits lined up had me slip up and back myself into a corner. That was just my first try where I went in blind.

Every boss has it's rules, but most are the same pattern. Kite the attacks, keep moving backwards while attacking, alternate between attacking/clearing. So the difficulty variance in these instances is tantamount to how bullet-heaven styled the boss is and whether you can track these multiple sources of danger. People who can't will find bosses exceptionally hard.

I think Morpho (blue slime boss) was another difficult one because of the sliding taking away one factor of control you have on that fight. Ignis and Ivy both are status effect bosses and neither is particularly "difficult" at their core, but often the difficulty seemed to stem from whether or not you could stay status-effect free. Get hit once and it's a downward spiral.

Admittedly I've died to a few of the bosses, mainly when I just go in a bit blind, undergeared.

I think it's hard to really come up with a good way to create what's genuine "difficulty" increases. I think in particular for this game, more accurate enemies would be a steep difficulty shift in terms of what's best, basically lowering windup time for them on attacks. More health and mobs is just the sponge method, it doesn't actually increase difficulty in a healthy way. Adding a bit more health and mobs on a difficult mod just enough to slow the player down is good, but at some point it's just excessive. Using a slight bit of these mechanics in junction is really the way to go. Hard to say what kind of tuning would be ideal there.

Another thought might be bosses that limit you in other ways. Poison limits healing, but Stardew Valley has Green Ghosts that debuff you and stop you from eating entirely and those completely destroy players in junction with things if they get hit. A boss that creates walls behind a player might also be interesting. A sort of way they can limit the player's space slowly. Hades, despite being a different genre shows this with a boss Tisiphone, who shrinks the arena 3 times throughout the fight. That mechanical difference could easily be interesting I think.

[Stellar Remnant]

Originally posted by Bridie:

This is really interesting feedback! We actually get quite a lot of feedback in the other direction from people suggesting the bosses are very challenging in some places. Definitely goes to show how different everyone's game experiences are. I know I'd definitely be interested in hearing how everyone in this thread thinks the bosses could be improved in terms of difficulty!

My advice: don't do anything. Gaming gods like the OP exist, and are statistical outliers. Don't balance stuff around them.