Grey Knights feel weak. Balance is garbage.

[Phoenix]

A full burst from a heavy bolter and a regular cultist (human) is still standing.
Nemsis weapons feel like nerf bats.
Enemies feel like HP sponges.
Range weapon ranges are pathetic. Cultists can attack and pin me wrom well beyond the range of my own weapons.
Power armor offers no armor whatsover? Not even one point???

Pathetic.

[Janthis]

Originally posted by Black Hammer:

Originally posted by WickedMax:

To be fair I understand where he's coming from.
In this game, you either abuse the mechanics or you look like a fool trying to play tactically.

If anything it's designed more like a card game with combos and such than an actual tactical game, for example, I was struggling until I discovered I can simply use 2 Justicars as AP batteries for my interceptor with teleport strike PLUS the +2 AP stratagem.
But frankly, it feels more like cheesing rather than actually playing a tactical game.

If you can't design a game to accomodate the lore, do like Fatshark did and have it be an elite Scions or Kasrkin team, don't use the mary sues of the setting who can kill 100s of daemons singlehandedly.

This is a valid point, and ties into the core problem of TRPGs that try to lean into bonus actions too heavily. Playing this game well is more about finding something busted and exploiting it, not using good positioning and trading fire favorably. Spam near-infinite grenades. Teleport all over the map. Use double justicar and an apothecary to load one unit with bonus AP, WP, and damage, then have it run through all the enemies in a single turn.

Doesn't make it a bad game, per se, but it winds up with that "puzzle" feel rather than simulating any sort of small unit tactics.

Yeah, and it also makes the GKs feel like weaklings who need to resort to tricks and "gaming the system" in order to win, which is exactly what the OP was complaining about.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Rodi:

Typical git gud issue.
While you cry and despair at your own incompetence, the average player beats this game in standard or higher difficulties without much effort by learning to play.

I have no isses winning battes, you sanctimonius heretic, the FEEL is off. That is my issue. I can sorta understand the short range onthe wrist-mounted storm boler (even if it's too short), but a heavy weapon would have range.
Terminator armor feel weak whena normalautogan blows trough it.

[Ghost from warp]

Originally posted by Phoenix:

Originally posted by Rodi:

Typical git gud issue.
While you cry and despair at your own incompetence, the average player beats this game in standard or higher difficulties without much effort by learning to play.

I have no isses winning battes, you sanctimonius heretic, the FEEL is off. That is my issue. I can sorta understand the short range onthe wrist-mounted storm boler (even if it's too short), but a heavy weapon would have range.
Terminator armor feel weak whena normalautogan blows trough it.

Yes, game is not lore accurate, neither tabletop version.

[Rodi]

Originally posted by Ghost from warp:

Originally posted by Phoenix:

I have no isses winning battes, you sanctimonius heretic, the FEEL is off. That is my issue. I can sorta understand the short range onthe wrist-mounted storm boler (even if it's too short), but a heavy weapon would have range.
Terminator armor feel weak whena normalautogan blows trough it.

Yes, game is not lore accurate, neither tabletop version.

They want Grey Knights ignoring enemy attacks and killing all but the largest enemies in one attack to "feel right", because having to play strategically with the game's mechanics and steamrolling the enemy makes Grey Knights "feel weak".
What an amazing game it would be to just walk and attack while being immune to damage and destroying everything in one hit...

[Janthis]

Originally posted by Phoenix:

Originally posted by Rodi:

Typical git gud issue.
While you cry and despair at your own incompetence, the average player beats this game in standard or higher difficulties without much effort by learning to play.

I have no isses winning battes, you sanctimonius heretic, the FEEL is off. That is my issue. I can sorta understand the short range onthe wrist-mounted storm boler (even if it's too short), but a heavy weapon would have range.
Terminator armor feel weak whena normalautogan blows trough it.

At the same time, it's literally a double-barreled bolter. A direct hit should cut a cultist in half, not take off half his health. :P

As for armor... you literally have no armor (and Terminator only has a little bit) unless you use your psychic aegis ability. How's that for realism.

[Ghost from warp]

Originally posted by Johnny_B_80:

Originally posted by Phoenix:

I have no isses winning battes, you sanctimonius heretic, the FEEL is off. That is my issue. I can sorta understand the short range onthe wrist-mounted storm boler (even if it's too short), but a heavy weapon would have range.
Terminator armor feel weak whena normalautogan blows trough it.

At the same time, it's literally a double-barreled bolter. A direct hit should cut a cultist in half, not take off half his health. :P

As for armor... you literally have no armor (and Terminator only has a little bit) unless you use your psychic aegis ability. How's that for realism.

I can explain it to you lorewise, if you want.
They are nurgle cultists. They already mutated so badly, they would keep up walking even without half of the body.

I can understand that some people are annoyed by amount of mechanics and ability to abuse them (like 9 action interceptor before any AP injections) bur I'll ask why? Late game GK is exactly like you want. Right build terminator justicar will eat dreadnought attacks for breakfast. Purigator will one-shot even hardest enemies less than terminator. Interceptor will cut through dozens of lesser enemies (even without ap injections from justicars).

People have right to dislike product. But this complaint sound like you just never cut it.

[Belegar]

I am no 40k expert but i imagine that in tabletop, one single space marine or even four Grey Knights would not be able to take out a whole nurgle army.
So like most other 40k stretegy games the units are more based on the tabletop game rather than the books and novels.

[Janthis]

Originally posted by Birkegaard:

I am no 40k expert but i imagine that in tabletop, one single space marine or even four Grey Knights would not be able to take out a whole nurgle army.
So like most other 40k stretegy games the units are more based on the tabletop game rather than the books and novels.

True, there's always been a disconnect between the lore and the tabletop/videogame rules for the sake of "balance". I just wish they'd done it a bit better than putting Grey Knights on the same footing with basic cultists, at least in the beginning.

You can't even enjoy slaughtering them when you level up and get better gear, because they simply don't show up in missions anymore, you just get Nurgle marines and other big monsters instead.

[Ghost from warp]

You can't even enjoy slaughtering them when you level up and get better gear, because they simply don't show up in missions anymore, you just get Nurgle marines and other big monsters instead.

Not true, if you manage corruption well, you will get low level missions. Just slaughtered dozen of cultists and poxwolkers in one pack with interceptor and justicar

[-GK- Librarian Markus Ramikin]

What we really need is tabletop-style Perils of the Warp. It doesn't feel like Warhammer when my Justicar never once killed himself trying to cast Hammerhand.

/trololo

[Ghost from warp]

Originally posted by -GK- Librarian Markus Ramikin:

What we really need is tabletop-style Perils of the Warp. It doesn't feel like Warhammer when my Justicar never once killed himself trying to cast Hammerhand.

/trololo

1% peril from RPG was to host greater daemon in your body.

jokes aside. Such mechanic would be too much, it would cost you entire squad and will definitely burn too many players out.

[-GK- Librarian Markus Ramikin]

Originally posted by Ghost from warp:

jokes aside. Such mechanic would be too much, it would cost you entire squad and will definitely burn too many players out.

Yeah, I think this game actually does a great job making you feel ilke all the casting you're doing is unleashing dangerous energies unto the battlefield, without it becoming anti-fun.

[WickedMax]

Originally posted by Rodi:

Originally posted by Ghost from warp:

Yes, game is not lore accurate, neither tabletop version.

They want Grey Knights ignoring enemy attacks and killing all but the largest enemies in one attack to "feel right", because having to play strategically with the game's mechanics and steamrolling the enemy makes Grey Knights "feel weak".
What an amazing game it would be to just walk and attack while being immune to damage and destroying everything in one hit...

Make it a different game, change the mechanics a bit instead of copying Xcom where normal operators fight aliens with superior technology, a completely different premise from 40k.
As an example, 13 Sentinels, despite having almost no graphics, made the giant robots feel like giant robots more than this game makes you feel like a Marine with all the flashy graphics.

How? Game is structured like tower defense but you can move the mechs freely along the map(walking mecha walk on roads, flying mecha go where they want) and the enemies come in swarms. The part that makes it feel like a Giant mecha simulator, is that with basic attacks you destroy hundreds of minor enemies, and then once in a while giant enemies as big or bigger than your guys show up, and that's where you have to be a bit more strategic.

Now, 13 Sentinels is easy as ♥♥♥♥ and not nearly as engaging as most TRPG(It's a VN first and foremost), but the design makes sense when you think you're piloting giant robots.

To other people, Plague Marines in lore struggle against normal Marines because it's still an even fight(Lords of Silence for reference), Grey Knights would absolutely wreck Plague Marines 1v1 in most books unless some Chaoswanker writer was writing it.

You want your Xcom clone? Make it Kasrkin or Scions/Storm Troopers vs Genestealer Cults.

[Rodi]

I am sure devs were well aware that lore purists would complain about the game, especially players who struggle with the game's mechanics and have trouble wrecking enemies as if they were nothing (in this case the adaptation done in the game adds with the player frustration over their failures).
Anyway, lore purists always complain, as we can see in games, series, movies and everything else that is adapted from literature. The problem is usually in their mindset, not in the work of others.
The game is fine the way it is and Grey Knights do wreck Plague Marines (and everything else in this game btw).

[Zygmunt]

Heres the deal. I got that feeling too. It was a pain in the ass. Butt its only in early game. First two gates and boss is almost as hard as enjoying netflix witches series. Butt from then its gets easier and cheasier.
Ive invented a tactic that is perfect. I call it HONOR THE WACK!
Its bassically using 2 justicars, conseiller and interceptor (in late game you can use 3 justicars). Justicars must have honor the chapter ability to give free AP to interceptor who will steam roll the map. And thats all, you teleport interceptor into the middle of enemies and buff him beyond the logic. Even better if your conseiller have this buffs that incerase stun, medical skulls are also nice for de-debufing. And absolutly best option is when interceptor is using the Wack hammer, which push enemies few tiles back for thorwing off the leage. Other options are double swords for critics (buff it beyond reason) or sword (ornly this which allows you do 100% block). Jusiticars should focus on support roles and fight only when can. I just use them to spam 20 armor on interceptor (which is hardly nessecary). For them is best to use halabards.