Cool down for turning Radar based AA on and off

[Rule Britannia]

SEAD missiles being unable to find a target and instantly being one or two shot by AA systems suck, for example, systems such as the BUK is cause for reason by gameplay balance alone let alone reality for a cool down to be introduced for turning radar on and off.

[soldier6661111]

Forcing the radars off is a successful SEAD run. Could you point to the reality of cooldown?

[Rule Britannia]

Escrito originalmente por soldier6661111:

Forcing the radars off is a successful SEAD run. Could you point to the reality of cooldown?

Was pointed out in OP

[makisekurisufcker]

No, ♥♥♥♥ SEAD.

[Rule Britannia]

Escrito originalmente por GunSlinginOtaku:

No, ♥♥♥♥ SEAD.

Average broken AA system enjoyer

[soldier6661111]

Escrito originalmente por Rule Britannia:

Escrito originalmente por soldier6661111:

Forcing the radars off is a successful SEAD run. Could you point to the reality of cooldown?

Was pointed out in OP

Didn't see the link...

Anyways forcing radar off is SEAD success.

[Kustomautos]

radar is already forced on if they run out of ammo

[Rule Britannia]

So to recap the three points so far.

1. **** SEAD, which is an opinion, doesn't really get at the gameplay
2. Forcing radar off is not SEAD success, because of firing angles all you then have to do is turn SEAD back on and target a SEAD aircraft to eliminate it, which gives Radar AA an unfair advantage because it can be turned on instantly once the SEAD aircraft passes over, making your point moot.
3. Radar is turned on once it runs out of ammo, however, that doesn't factor into the issue of how SEAD works when targeting it while it has ammo, which is the far more critical state where the SEAD aircraft is mean to search and destroy a target, and because of how the gameplay loop works for combat, combine with the already existing mechanic of being able to turn it back on, again, this removes any actual relevance to how SEAD works, making this also a moot point.

[Name]

Escrito originalmente por Rule Britannia:

So to recap the three points so far.

1. **** SEAD, which is an opinion, doesn't really get at the gameplay
2. Forcing radar off is not SEAD success, because of firing angles all you then have to do is turn SEAD back on and target a SEAD aircraft to eliminate it, which gives Radar AA an unfair advantage because it can be turned on instantly once the SEAD aircraft passes over, making your point moot.
3. Radar is turned on once it runs out of ammo, however, that doesn't factor into the issue of how SEAD works when targeting it while it has ammo, which is the far more critical state where the SEAD aircraft is mean to search and destroy a target, and because of how the gameplay loop works for combat, combine with the already existing mechanic of being able to turn it back on, again, this removes any actual relevance to how SEAD works, making this also a moot point.

hillarious post. broken arrow features a SAM radar cooldown timer actually. step out of the russian troll farm forum and hop on that game, give it a try.

[makisekurisufcker]

Escrito originalmente por Rule Britannia:

Escrito originalmente por GunSlinginOtaku:

No, ♥♥♥♥ SEAD.

Average broken AA system enjoyer

>Broken AA.
Lol. Lmao.

[Rule Britannia]

Escrito originalmente por GunSlinginOtaku:

Escrito originalmente por Rule Britannia:

Average broken AA system enjoyer

>I'm a Troll
Troll

Troll is trolling

[Grant]

Escrito originalmente por soldier6661111:

Forcing the radars off is a successful SEAD run. Could you point to the reality of cooldown?

Because that how physics and computer works?
it takes time for radar to send radiation waves out and to receive them back for the computer to analyze to accurately identify a target. Then, the missile targeting system has to link up with the computer before it can lock onto the target.
The entire process can take close to a minute, in-game it takes a mere few seconds.
Otherwise, the Iraqis could have simply done this meta-gaming mechanic against the US SEAD missions during the Gulf War.

[maroder11223]

i would agree having 10-20 sec could down for turning on would be good. its not important for low skill matches but players who can know what they are doing can abuse it

[Ahriman]

Escrito originalmente por Rule Britannia:

So to recap the three points so far.

1. **** SEAD, which is an opinion, doesn't really get at the gameplay
2. Forcing radar off is not SEAD success, because of firing angles all you then have to do is turn SEAD back on and target a SEAD aircraft to eliminate it, which gives Radar AA an unfair advantage because it can be turned on instantly once the SEAD aircraft passes over, making your point moot.
3. Radar is turned on once it runs out of ammo, however, that doesn't factor into the issue of how SEAD works when targeting it while it has ammo, which is the far more critical state where the SEAD aircraft is mean to search and destroy a target, and because of how the gameplay loop works for combat, combine with the already existing mechanic of being able to turn it back on, again, this removes any actual relevance to how SEAD works, making this also a moot point.

Then let us flip the script a little to ask some other questions, eh?

Say Radar is given a cooldown, meaning that a single SEAD aircraft can now entirely lock down the entire AA grid against enemy bombers for several seconds, two being enough to lock it down entirely as it doesn't take a top 10 player to micro two circles so that one is at all times facing the enemy.

How do you stop enemy planes from bombing you with impunity when Pact for example relies solely on long range Radar AA for their air defence?

It's called balance. Enemy HAS to bring in AA to halt being bombed, however, that AA doesn't do anything against Ground units, thus it will only ever work against Air units, be it helis or planes. The difference between an air unit and an AA unit in terms of investment is that if I need a plane, I click a button, the plane appears instantly in my menu, and I click to the battlefield, where it is where I need it and want it in under 10 seconds, no matter how big the map is.

I want to do the same with AA, it has to travel up to a minute to get there, and I need to baby sit it nonstop against players that aren't sleeping at the wheel, all the while I need to keep it resupplied.

All this opinion of yours screams is that you don't want to put the barest minimum into air micro, and just want to suppress the entire enemy AA web with a pair of SEAD planes so you can bomb with impunity.

[maroder11223]

i personalty dont find it very fun when enemy buy saed planes and i kill them with my AA.
realistically you are getting max 2 saed planes in deck which cost very much and 90% of time cant even shut down enemy air defense. and its not like they are that hard to counter they can die to normal aa or you can buy fighter and kill it and in almost most cases you are coming on top.

[Bean]

Escrito originalmente por Ahriman:

How do you stop enemy planes from bombing you with impunity when Pact for example relies solely on long range Radar AA for their air defence?

Igla, Strela, MiG 31, MiG 23(Not as bad as you think), MiG 29, and Tunguska non-radar missiles?

If you are worried about F-15's, then how do you think NATO players feel facing a crapton of MiG 31's?

This game isn't in a good place for balance at the moment, particularly for Air.

Adding a dedicated Fire control Radar system would be a good option, with it controlling a battery of Radar AA. If it gets destroyed, then the Radar AA is deactivated for a bit. This radar set should not be mobile once deployed, instead needing a deployment and redeployment time.

It could be added for both NATO and PACT too.

Without the Fire control Radar, it could be that Radar AA is severely limited in its reaction time and/or Range.

The Radar AA shouldn't be SEADable unless they are unslaved to the targeting Radar.

Slaved Radar AA shouldn't be able to spam a ton of missiles at the target either, with 5 sites at a time being able to shoot.

As compensation for the nerf to AA ability once the radar is out, the launchers should be cheaper. There should also be more per card IF the Fire control radar is added as its own card.