AI and cheating

[kaladan]

I have 2 questions about AI wich i mostly noticed after last few patches.

First - Is AI cheating with view/spotting?
I had few matches till now, i watched even replays and i can confidently state that AI sees hidden recon units without ever showing that it can see them. You can heli drop recon behind enemy lines without being spotted in transit or after and yet AI will send from front line tanks/infantry directly to the place where recon is without any way of knowing it is exactly in that spot. The behavior of the AI in this case is like this: My recon was walking from point A to point B through the forest, then the AI wanted to send units to point A, I could see in the replay the path AI wanted to go, so, in the middle of that path there was my recon with AT weapon, and AI´s behavior then changed, it seemed like it wanted to go there and changed its mind, making it seem like it was going back and forth every time its units were getting too close to my recon and AT weapon . AI behaves that way only against back line recon units, it behaves differently against normal units and just sends units carelessly.

Second - Does AI get some accuracy cheats?
I have matches in which AI uses fliegerfaust and does around 11 hits to 13 shots ratio (around 85% hit rate), i had 4x T72M1 vs 1x M48 and my tanks missed 15 from 18 shots while M48 hits 3 out of 3, and he got stressed because 1 hit from first salvo put him on 1hp. Also in other match, my reacon once was getting killed in 10 second by one aerorifle while my aerorifle nearly ran out of ammo before it could kil thel AI Igla and lost like 5 guys.

If it is intentional to help AI so it can bother longer the player it plays against, I understand, but it really feel cheap and annoying.

[DasaKamov]

There are no gameplay cheats with the AI - they do not get bonuses to spotting or accuracy (or defense, or damage, or any other tangible effect.)

The only cheats the AI get are higher unit availability and resource income, and *only* on the highest difficulty levels.

The AI does have computer memory though, so it will react player actions faster than a human can. It can send its units to a player's location, even if it spots the player for only a split-second. On higher dififculties, the computer will "remember" the location of a player's units for longer than on lower difficulties.

[DasaKamov]

There are no gameplay cheats with the AI - they do not get bonuses to spotting or accuracy (or defense, or damage, or any other tangible effect.)

The only cheats the AI get are higher unit availability and resource income, and *only* on the two highest difficulty levels.

The AI does have computer memory though, so it will react player actions faster than a human can. It can send its units to a player's location, even if it spots the player for only a split-second. On higher dififculties, the computer will "remember" the location of a player's units for longer than on lower difficulties.

[SovietPowerlifting]

The main reason why so many people think that AI cheats in Eugen games, is because the AI can spot you without you spotting the AI. Concealment works both ways --just because you don't see enemy units doesn't mean they're not there.

[[MCS] Yoritomo]

Sure AI know where your units are otherwise you would not see them on screen.

[Randall Flagg]

DasaKamov and synthwaver said pretty much everything. AI does not cheat, and if this is the case this a bug and need to be fixed. We have a bunch internal automated test to ensure AI does not cheat (unless for unit bonus and income bonus on very hard and upper difficulty, but this is a design choice).

Your first point has been answered by DasaKamov and synthwaver, I have nothing more to say.

For your second point, AI just send order like a normal player can do (to be fair, AI is faster than a human player), this implies AI cannot do something a player can't do, so it does not cheat with accuracy.

If you think there is a bug, you can contact our support.
Thanks a lot for your feedback commander, hope you have fun on the battlefield.

[kaladan]

I do play mostly death row when i want relax, I play vs AI and on that map with 6-7 recon units placed in right spots you can see enemy units from spawn to the front. I often can see almost all enemy units most of the time. But sometimes (mostly after been bombed to oblivion) AI decides that it has enough of my recon spotting it and even when never spotted (i rewatch replay - never seen) he takes his T-80 from the front and move it towards the house close to AI spawn - does not shut on them untile he is close enough to spot them and then klill them because their AT cant penetrate. Once happened that my recon which was moving on foot (that division didnt have heli recon) through forests was not spotted on the way and AI wanted to send units to a village on the side so they can fight my units, yet when he was close to my recon AT range and I noticed that he was moving away from it for a bit but then change order (since I checked the replay I could see the orders the AI gave to its units) and wanted move towards the village and then change it again and he did this for as long as my recon had range on the transport. When my recon moved far enough from the road so the AI transport can pass safely, he moved it in without problems. I dont say AI cheats all the time that much, because most of the time he would sacrified bunch of units on same spot again and again. It´s just this particular moments when out of nowhere he moves his units out of his ordinary paths and towards my recon guy and with units that have no reason to go there. I mean AI normaly never sends tank towards buildings in the back of map for no reason.

Second was more about I feel like most unlucky player ever when i play against AI - like his T55 can hit 4x times in a row yet my challenger 2 misses same T55 3x times in a row. And when his fliegerfausts were total mvps and hit better then my rolland i was curious if it is just luck or some AI buff. I mean i just had match where i sent m48 hunt BMP-1 recon in the forest and my tank missed 3 times while BMP hit all 3 and killed the tank and that BMP had like 36% hit chance.

Ohhh and talking about bugs - Puma supply should not have fuel ,p

[FREEZED]

Originally posted by kaladan:

I do play mostly death row when i want relax, I play vs AI and on that map with 6-7 recon units placed in right spots you can see enemy units from spawn to the front. I often can see almost all enemy units most of the time. But sometimes (mostly after been bombed to oblivion) AI decides that it has enough of my recon spotting it and even when never spotted (i rewatch replay - never seen) he takes his T-80 from the front and move it towards the house close to AI spawn - does not shut on them untile he is close enough to spot them and then klill them because their AT cant penetrate. Once happened that my recon which was moving on foot (that division didnt have heli recon) through forests was not spotted on the way and AI wanted to send units to a village on the side so they can fight my units, yet when he was close to my recon AT range and I noticed that he was moving away from it for a bit but then change order (since I checked the replay I could see the orders the AI gave to its units) and wanted move towards the village and then change it again and he did this for as long as my recon had range on the transport. When my recon moved far enough from the road so the AI transport can pass safely, he moved it in without problems. I dont say AI cheats all the time that much, because most of the time he would sacrified bunch of units on same spot again and again. It´s just this particular moments when out of nowhere he moves his units out of his ordinary paths and towards my recon guy and with units that have no reason to go there. I mean AI normaly never sends tank towards buildings in the back of map for no reason.

Second was more about I feel like most unlucky player ever when i play against AI - like his T55 can hit 4x times in a row yet my challenger 2 misses same T55 3x times in a row. And when his fliegerfausts were total mvps and hit better then my rolland i was curious if it is just luck or some AI buff. I mean i just had match where i sent m48 hunt BMP-1 recon in the forest and my tank missed 3 times while BMP hit all 3 and killed the tank and that BMP had like 36% hit chance.

Ohhh and talking about bugs - Puma supply should not have fuel ,p

i did some testing and some apc are doing fine on 1 vs 1 situations, most important is who gets 1st shot and makes enemy suppressed a bit lowering their stats. so it is not always so obvious how it will end , if your tanks get damaged, it is better to smoke and retreat and engage later.

[Sokol]

Originally posted by kaladan:

I have 2 questions about AI wich i mostly noticed after last few patches.

First - Is AI cheating with view/spotting?
I had few matches till now, i watched even replays and i can confidently state that AI sees hidden recon units without ever showing that it can see them. You can heli drop recon behind enemy lines without being spotted in transit or after and yet AI will send from front line tanks/infantry directly to the place where recon is without any way of knowing it is exactly in that spot. The behavior of the AI in this case is like this: My recon was walking from point A to point B through the forest, then the AI wanted to send units to point A, I could see in the replay the path AI wanted to go, so, in the middle of that path there was my recon with AT weapon, and AI´s behavior then changed, it seemed like it wanted to go there and changed its mind, making it seem like it was going back and forth every time its units were getting too close to my recon and AT weapon . AI behaves that way only against back line recon units, it behaves differently against normal units and just sends units carelessly.

Second - Does AI get some accuracy cheats?
I have matches in which AI uses fliegerfaust and does around 11 hits to 13 shots ratio (around 85% hit rate), i had 4x T72M1 vs 1x M48 and my tanks missed 15 from 18 shots while M48 hits 3 out of 3, and he got stressed because 1 hit from first salvo put him on 1hp. Also in other match, my reacon once was getting killed in 10 second by one aerorifle while my aerorifle nearly ran out of ammo before it could kil thel AI Igla and lost like 5 guys.

If it is intentional to help AI so it can bother longer the player it plays against, I understand, but it really feel cheap and annoying.

I can confirm that the AI does indeed constantly spot your units without ever actually seeing them, and checking replays with the AIs perspective shows that they are just magically sending tons of guys over to a spot where my units are, without ever seeing them

[Cryptic]

i beg to differ. the ai DOES cheat - i have watched countless videos from the ai perspective and yeah - they have magic eyes sometimes.

[Solon]

Not this noise again. Stop.

[Cryptic]

It's okay that the AI cheats in my opinion but sometimes it is just over the top

They just simply aren't as good as human players.

[Hydra]

Originally posted by Corrosion:

i beg to differ. the ai DOES cheat - i have watched countless videos from the ai perspective and yeah - they have magic eyes sometimes.

Interesting if so because in Steel Division 2 it genuinely did not vision cheat and you could easily sneak raider teams up on its transport routes and set ambushes. While this isn't SD2 I would hope that such a successful feature would have remained as the AI in SD2 was still quite competent too.

[DasaKamov]

The AI is very similar to SD2, with some refinements. The accustations of "cheating" or "all-seing" usually come from people who don't quite understond how the AI is programmed to behave.

Like the AI dev wrote in an earlier post, the AI will "remember" your unit positions if it spots them, even for a brief second (harder difficulty AIs will "remember" longer than lower-difficulty AI). Since computers are MUCH better at multi-tasking than humans, a computer can spot your hidden unit for a split-second and still have the reaction time to move its units to your hiding spot.

Because it reacts much faster than humans, people may think the AI never saw their unit to begin with. However, I can confirm that if you relocate your hidden unit to a different location AND that unit is not spotted again, the AI will lose track of your units and return to its original path.

I just played a game where a group of AI T-55s left they road they were fast-moving on and beelined to the treeline where my LRS were hiding; I moved my LRS deeper into the forest while bringing some Bradley recon up to counter the T-55s. Along the way, I spotted a BRDM lingering some distance away and blew it up with the Bradley. The T-55s moved to the spot my LRS used to be, realized they had no targets, and returned to the road to continue on their original path (where they were blown up by the Bradley's TOWs.) The BRDM spotted my LRS once, which sent the T-55s their way, but with AI recon destroyed they had no idea how to find my units once they relocated.

[Randall Flagg]

Like I said in others threads, AI have two ways to detect your units :
- See them (it's a computer so if your unit is seen even just a second, AI knows it)
- Your unit fired (like a player, AI can spot missile FX - AI know the exact position of the unit which fired, but only at the moment your unit fired)

With that AI have a memory about 3 minutes (easy) to 7 minutes (very hard / hardest). Like DasaKamov said, it remembers only the last position of your unit.

As far as I know, AI cannot cheat. If you caught the AI red-handed, please provide us more information. Replay, video, or just steps to reproduce.

Commanders, have fun on the battlefield.

[Sokol]

Originally posted by Randall Flagg:

Like I said in others threads, AI have two ways to detect your units :
- See them (it's a computer so if your unit is seen even just a second, AI knows it)
- Your unit fired (like a player, AI can spot missile FX - AI know the exact position of the unit which fired, but only at the moment your unit fired)

With that AI have a memory about 3 minutes (easy) to 7 minutes (very hard / hardest). Like DasaKamov said, it remembers only the last position of your unit.

As far as I know, AI cannot cheat. If you caught the AI red-handed, please provide us more information. Replay, video, or just steps to reproduce.

Commanders, have fun on the battlefield.

That makes more sense, it probably caught the smallest quickest glimpse but remembered where it was at
I get little glimpses of enemy units like that but can never remember them because its so short