Issues found so far with Czechoslovak divisions

[Gattsu]

I decided to compile a small list of things so far wrong/debatable with Czechoslovak divisions that I found so far. Naming issues have pretty much been already named out so I will avoid discussing it.

Existential issues: TAI - Tanková a automobilová inspekce - were pretty much just traffic police, which pretty much had no role as they had only few dozen personnel in the whole army (discord: pengito) reach out to me for screenshots of email conversations with multiple Czech military historians. "Polní četní" did not exist at all. All roles of western MPs were fulfilled by the personnel of the actual military units.

SHPz: Since start of theirs existence, the SHPz units were made out of teams of 6 (sources from 2 websites (one of them is a web and second one is answered by quite famous Czech military historian) -

http://www.csla.cz/armada/druhyvojsk/vysadkovevojsko14sdz01.htm
https://armada.vojenstvi.cz/vase-dotazy/146.htm

SHPz became 5 men squad only after year 1991 - also when it comes to their equipment some sources say they already had newer RPG-75s (those rpgs were mainly used by better units as they were more costly)

SHPz could also form a stronger squad of 12 recon units by merging them together (in the sources it is mentioned)

Výsadkáři: Výsadkáři from 22nd brigade were organized into 3 battalions (fighting once - not gonna mention the support ones) - all 3 of them were designated as "Paratrooper reconnaissance battalions) - henceforth it would make sense to me for them to only be recon. They used to have normal paratrooper regiments only in 60s-70s

As history of the unit is quite complicated (well it is quite easy to find their equipment from 1989 if someone was to go to the archives and look it up - it is possible). Their equipment in the 60s is depicted in the game - VZ58s and rpg7, after middle 70s they were equipped with VZ58s and Skorpions and had RPG75s - their transports should include the basic truck imo tho, in 90s there are pictures of the units with them. Plus its common knowledge that they had Dragunovs

some sources (Pavel Minařík, PhD, czech military historian - specializes in ČSLA)
https://armada.vojenstvi.cz/vase-dotazy/100.htm
https://armada.vojenstvi.cz/vase-dotazy/97.htm
https://armada.vojenstvi.cz/vase-dotazy/99.htm

T-55/54 AM2s: more of a lack of those

since 1985 they were produced in Czechoslovakia, total of around 400 were produced, not all of them had the 9K116 anti tank missile system (Bastion) - only 27 were fitted with it.

Also it was mentioned that T54s were mainly used by Motostřelecké divize and T55s by Tankové divize - but I cant find more sources than one citation

https://www.valka.cz/topic/view/17300#63532

[Gattsu]

As I might sound quite nitpicky or criticizing I am open to help with a research in any way.

[100quan003]

T-55AM2 was very common in czechoslovakia but maybe 19th divisie specifically didint have them? its possible that the 3rd czech division will feature the AM2.

[Schwrzkpf]

Originally posted by Gattsu:

Výsadkáři: Výsadkáři from 22nd brigade were organized into 3 battalions (fighting once - not gonna mention the support ones) - all 3 of them were designated as "Paratrooper reconnaissance battalions) - henceforth it would make sense to me for them to only be recon. They used to have normal paratrooper regiments only in 60s-70s

Výsadkáři were not paratrooper reconnaissance battalions but in CSLA they were following the USSR doctrine. They were light infantry specialized in fighting behind enemy lines by helo drops and destruction of key military points (HQs, barracks, storages, etc.) or their capture and holding before the larger ground forces will arrive.

So they were not scouts and never ment to be, They were heliborne light infantry with special training for fighting behind enemy lines - etc. light shock/ spec. forces - depends on how you wanna see it.

So even I am not beeing OK with Eugene on many things, this was done correct by them.

[Schwrzkpf]

Also for military police units - Polní četní - never existed - that is clearly a mistake. The clear name is POLNÍ ČETNICTVO. Those units were under command of SNB - Sbor narodní bezpečnosti - which was the overall police department.

CSLA had their own military police units but in case of war they will be reinforced and commanded by Soviet officers and commanders. THere is also strong believe in historical community that military police units will be consisted of mainly soviet units to maintaint order under friendly nations army. This is applicable to Poland, Hungary, Romania and other soviet satelite states.

What I mean by this is that if Eugene will put soviet military police infantry to the CSLA divisions it is a pretty accurate thing that will happen in case of war with very high chance. Maybe it will be nice to present small CSLA military police units as POLNÍ ČETNICTVO but the big military police units like Zagryadotryad should be soviet.

TAI - they were really only small police department with the task of inspecting technical state of military vehicles and tanks. They had no impact on discipline or impact on basic troopers in army.

[Rabidnid]

They have to invent MPs for the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid reservist squads which will probably be a whole division.

[Gattsu]

Schwrzkpf you are quite delusional if you think polní četnictvo existed. Please do not comment when you have 0 knowledge or Chat gpt knowledge, czechoslovak army never had their own military police, its establishment was not planned even in case of war.

https://ctrlv.link/1MJo
https://ctrlv.link/1Zxg

Výsadkáři would definitely be used for holding bridgeheads etc. but thats about to that extent, if you were able to read you would see they were really designated as paratrooper recon battalions and that is a hard fact. They would operate behind enemy lines.

Also my concern was mainly their equipment

https://ctrlv.link/UfMQ

[Schwrzkpf]

Originally posted by Gattsu:

Schwrzkpf you are quite delusional if you think polní četnictvo existed. Please do not comment when you have 0 knowledge or Chat gpt knowledge, czechoslovak army never had their own military police, its establishment was not planned even in case of war.

https://ctrlv.link/1MJo
https://ctrlv.link/1Zxg

Výsadkáři would definitely be used for holding bridgeheads etc. but thats about to that extent, if you were able to read you would see they were really designated as paratrooper recon battalions and that is a hard fact. They would operate behind enemy lines.

Also my concern was mainly their equipment

https://ctrlv.link/UfMQ

My friend I was just citing official page of military police of CR. The only delusiosinal person here is you. Maybe learn to read before trying to help Eugene.

https://vptabor.mo.gov.cz/historie/historie-vojenske-policie

Even on offcial page of ministry of defence of CR is said that CSLA had SNB as I mentioned correctly and they had their military police units under them. So yes, CSLA had their own military police units.

https://mocr.mo.gov.cz/ministr-a-ministerstvo/lide/starsi-historie-vojenske-policie-105881/

Operating behind enemy lines is not recon trait. It is special forces trait and they were not planned to be used as scouts. Because they were heliborne they had no chance to do it. They were also trained for aidrops from helicopters.

Vysádkáři were equivallent of VDV, not Spetsnaz GRU.

Please fill your knowledge before ruining our history.

[Gattsu]

Originally posted by Schwrzkpf:

Originally posted by Gattsu:

Schwrzkpf you are quite delusional if you think polní četnictvo existed. Please do not comment when you have 0 knowledge or Chat gpt knowledge, czechoslovak army never had their own military police, its establishment was not planned even in case of war.

https://ctrlv.link/1MJo
https://ctrlv.link/1Zxg

Výsadkáři would definitely be used for holding bridgeheads etc. but thats about to that extent, if you were able to read you would see they were really designated as paratrooper recon battalions and that is a hard fact. They would operate behind enemy lines.

Also my concern was mainly their equipment

https://ctrlv.link/UfMQ

My friend I was just citing official page of military police of CR. The only delusiosinal person here is you. Maybe learn to read before trying to help Eugene.

https://vptabor.mo.gov.cz/historie/historie-vojenske-policie

Even on offcial page of ministry of defence of CR is said that CSLA had SNB as I mentioned correctly and they had their military police units under them. So yes, CSLA had their own military police units.

https://mocr.mo.gov.cz/ministr-a-ministerstvo/lide/starsi-historie-vojenske-policie-105881/

Operating behind enemy lines is not recon trait. It is special forces trait and they were not planned to be used as scouts. Because they were heliborne they had no chance to do it. They were also trained for aidrops from helicopters.

Vysádkáři were equivallent of VDV, not Spetsnaz GRU.

Please fill your knowledge before ruining our history.

Bro u must have some hardcore learning disabilities, SNB is not part of the military, they were not MILITARY police. They literally have written there that military police did not exist until 1991, if your reading comprehension is lower than 3rd grader in elementary school you should avoid discussing anything. I guess 2 confirmations by Czech historians are not enough for you as your elementary school wisdom is much more important. Polní četnictvo never existed in ČSLA or SNB - you are just making fool of yourself

Funnily enough you are talking about Výsadkáři from 22nd which transformed in 3 years (1992) to 6. speciální skupina :))))) Please dont comment with 0 knowledge and 0 reading comprehension

[Schwrzkpf]

Originally posted by Gattsu:

Bro u must have some hardcore learning disabilities, SNB is not part of the military, they were not MILITARY police. They literally have written there that military police did not exist until 1991, if your reading comprehension is lower than 3rd grader in elementary school you should avoid discussing anything. I guess 2 confirmations by Czech historians are not enough for you as your elementary school wisdom is much more important. Polní četnictvo never existed in ČSLA or SNB - you are just making fool of yourself

Funnily enough you are talking about Výsadkáři from 22nd which transformed in 3 years (1992) to 6. speciální skupina :))))) Please dont comment with 0 knowledge and 0 reading comprehension

One more time... they were not named exactly MILITARY POLICE but they were military police under the SNB. THe exact name MILITARY POLICE was after dissolving of CSSR and establishing of Czech Reublic. So yes, you are still wrong. You should go back to the elementary school and learn the basics.

To the výsadkáři. Bro there were never any different paratroopers than 22nd in this era. The 22nd was there from 1969. 19. motostřelecká never had their own paratroopers so this is completely out of spec for this division to be real. Your mentioned paratroopers will never be added to basic motostřelecká division because their targets were behind enemy lines more as special forces. They will operate in their own organisation. But surely it is nice addition to the basic general division this will be. without them.

[Podhalańczyk '90]

so to summorize you guys have sources on saying they were recon and sources saying the were not same as mp, but guys lets not fight it eugen won't listen to you same as polish 4 mechanised not reciving any 2s1 while they been fully transformed into them well into 1989

[Schwrzkpf]

Originally posted by Podhalańczyk '90:

so to summorize you guys have sources on saying they were recon and sources saying the were not same as mp, but guys lets not fight it eugen won't listen to you same as polish 4 mechanised not reciving any 2s1 while they been fully transformed into them well into 1989

Yes, I can agree on this. It is probably because of balancing. Some division will be too underpowered if presented historically accurate and other might be strictly one sided which means they will be easily countered. So by this I believe those adding units from deferent divisions or arms are beeing done, purely for balancing rather than historic reasons.

Also because the Cold war never went into hot phase in Germany. There is a still a space for those what if merging or adding units to historical divisions as a What If scenario. And it just dont feel bad in my opinion because the gameplay is still the main thing that people playing this game want to be the best as possible.

[Schwrzkpf]

Originally posted by Gattsu:

I dont know if you also have reading handicap - you were saying that name military police was introduced after dissolution - "THe exact name MILITARY POLICE was after dissolving of CSSR" while it was in 1991

So now lesson from history for a Gattsu. CSSR does not mean Czechoslovakia. CSSR was Czechoslovak Socialistic Republic. but it does not matter because you just dont understand your national history.

Military police units were under the command of SNB in Cold war era. They were just not named MILITARY POLICE. MILITARY POLICE=VOJENSKÁ POLICIE were established on 1991 but it is just a name - as explained previously.

Your logic is same as telling us that Germany had tanks in their divisions but you will say no, they were not tanks, they were Leopards. xD But tank is a tank even that the name is a Leopard. xD

You are just making clown of yourself here.

[Gattsu]

Originally posted by Schwrzkpf:

Originally posted by Gattsu:

I dont know if you also have reading handicap - you were saying that name military police was introduced after dissolution - "THe exact name MILITARY POLICE was after dissolving of CSSR" while it was in 1991

So now lesson from history for a Gattsu. CSSR does not mean Czechoslovakia. CSSR was Czechoslovak Socialistic Republic. but it does not matter because you just dont understand your national history.

Military police units were under the command of SNB in Cold war era. They were just not named MILITARY POLICE. MILITARY POLICE=VOJENSKÁ POLICIE were established on 1991 but it is just a name - as explained previously.

Your logic is same as telling us that Germany had tanks in their divisions but you will say no, they were not tanks, they were Leopards. xD But tank is a tank even that the name is a Leopard. xD

You are just making clown of yourself here.

Wow Czechoslovakia is same as when you say Czechia smartpants. You are not even making sense at this point, dissolution happened in 1992/3, that it became Czech and Slovak Federative republic is irrelevant to the discussion as your before mentioned dissolution did not happen until 1992/3. Military police was established 1991 period. There was no military police you institute patient. And SNB is not military police in function, there were no SNB running around barracks. You can ask Eugen what they think about SNB, they will tell you the same and that they wont add it.

[Schwrzkpf]

Originally posted by Gattsu:

Wow Czechoslovakia is same as when you say Czechia smartpants. You are not even making sense at this point, dissolution happened in 1992/3, that it became Czech and Slovak Federative republic is irrelevant to the discussion as your before mentioned dissolution did not happen until 1992/3. Military police was established 1991 period. There was no military police you institute patient. And SNB is not military police in function, there were no SNB running around barracks. You can ask Eugen what they think about SNB, they will tell you the same and that they wont add it.

It is irrelevant because it is a fact and you are being wrong. I understand, sir. Typical Pepik.

I never said I want SNB to be added. You clearly are totally delirious. I just said that those military police units were formed under the command of SNB which is truth because SNB units had a training and were prepared for this specific task.

I gave you enough links which are relevant so now I will let you in your parallel world where you are right. :)

[Radegast]

Czechia = product of brainless carrer buyrocrats with zero experience and no serious work to do....