BGS in next update

[Kel]

Hey, just a little comment on the newest devblog:

Originally posted by DevBlog:

or BGS in-game, the federal border police. These units will be large reservist recon squads equipped entirely with MP-5 submachine guns.

I would be hard pressed to consider BGS forces, in any way shape or form, as reservists level. Or am I misunderstanding something here? :D

[Weißbrot]

Grenzschutzgruppe 9 (GSG 9) of the BGS, all reservists?
lol

[[EUG] MadMat]

We're not talking about GSG 9 here, just regular Bundesgrenzschutzen.
GSG 9 is the elite counter-terrorist branch of the BGS, not the whole of it. Just like our GIGN is the elite counter-terrorist branch of the Gendarmerie.

[Kel]

Considering that we are talking about unit quality here? It can be very well argued that compared to the bulk of the german ground forces, the readiness level and training was atleast on par, on experience, better than, like, regular jäger / panzergrenadier forces.

The german army was a conscript army first and foremost. Setting them below GDR Grenzers in terms of quality ... ?

While we are on it, having Jäger sitting at quality tier B is stretching it. FS-Jäger make sense on B, but standard... are just motorized infantry and on the same overall level as Pz. Grenadiers which feel right at home @ C?

Same with the Recce Jäger Aufkl. having A but FS-Jäger and Fernspäher B tier. Conscripts on higher quality than special forces?

[DanTheMan]

Originally posted by Das Sieb:

Considering that we are talking about unit quality here? It can be very well argued that compared to the bulk of the german ground forces, the readiness level and training was atleast on par, on experience, better than, like, regular jäger / panzergrenadier forces.

The german army was a conscript army first and foremost. Setting them below GDR Grenzers in terms of quality ... ?

While we are on it, having Jäger sitting at quality tier B is stretching it. FS-Jäger make sense on B, but standard... are just motorized infantry and on the same overall level as Pz. Grenadiers which feel right at home @ C?

Same with the Recce Jäger Aufkl. having A but FS-Jäger and Fernspäher B tier. Conscripts on higher quality than special forces?

Ignore the in game unit ratings. Its just another Eugen goof that they still havent fixed a year in. Just removing them might make the game clearer to new players, but Eugen has decided leave it, because My Name is Eugene.

As far as why BGS is being added, IT'S HISTORY!!!!!!! YAY!!!! Pointless from a gamelay perspective apparently (when was the last time you saw Sicherungs on the map?) , but Eugen can bring to bear all those hours reading scanned documents from the 1980s and show everyone how military historians roll.

Havent you figured out that these table top military figurine painters masquerading as a software company care a ♥♥♥♥ ton more about recreating the Order of Battle in minute detail and hats and uniforms and models and tank barrels than working on the gameplay, maps? I'll be fair and say there is a frightening segment of the playerbase that actually looks at the models that closely for mistakes.

Who saw "New Units" in the title and thought: Tank? SF? Maybe a standalone firesupport unit? Plane? Arent they very clever in making minor things sound exciting?

[commissaire lachance🇫🇷]

Originally posted by DanTheMan:

Originally posted by Das Sieb:

Considering that we are talking about unit quality here? It can be very well argued that compared to the bulk of the german ground forces, the readiness level and training was atleast on par, on experience, better than, like, regular jäger / panzergrenadier forces.

The german army was a conscript army first and foremost. Setting them below GDR Grenzers in terms of quality ... ?

While we are on it, having Jäger sitting at quality tier B is stretching it. FS-Jäger make sense on B, but standard... are just motorized infantry and on the same overall level as Pz. Grenadiers which feel right at home @ C?

Same with the Recce Jäger Aufkl. having A but FS-Jäger and Fernspäher B tier. Conscripts on higher quality than special forces?

Ignore the in game unit ratings. Its just another Eugen goof that they still havent fixed a year in. Just removing them might make the game clearer to new players, but Eugen has decided leave it, because My Name is Eugene.

As far as why BGS is being added, IT'S HISTORY!!!!!!! YAY!!!! Pointless from a gamelay perspective apparently (when was the last time you saw Sicherungs on the map?) , but Eugen can bring to bear all those hours reading scanned documents from the 1980s and show everyone how military historians roll.

Havent you figured out that these military table top figurine painters masquerading as a software company care a ♥♥♥♥ ton more about recreating the Order of Battle in minute detail and hats and uniforms and models and tank barrels than working on the gameplay, maps? I'll be fair and say there is a frightening segment of the playerbase that actually looks at the models that closely for mistakes.

Who saw "New Units" in the title and thought: Tank? SF? Maybe a standalone firesupport unit? Plane? Arent they very clever in making things sound exciting?

if eugen was really obsessed with realism, they wouldn't have compressed the distances and released a 1:1 scale game

[DanTheMan]

Originally posted by commissaire lachance🇫🇷:

if eugen was really obsessed with realism, they wouldn't have compressed the distances and released a 1:1 scale game

Word.

I do not understand the scale compression. When youtubers reviewed, a few stated "I just cant put my finger on why the game doesnt feel right".

They likely could fix it, they wont. Dumb. They could have experimented with different scales and let the community choose, they didnt. They can still come out with maps with different scales, but I find Eugene to be somewhat inflexible in their ways.

[Catiline]

Originally posted by DanTheMan:

Originally posted by commissaire lachance🇫🇷:

if eugen was really obsessed with realism, they wouldn't have compressed the distances and released a 1:1 scale game

Word.

I do not understand the scale compression. When youtubers reviewed, a few stated "I just cant put my finger on why the game doesnt feel right".

They likely could fix it, they wont. Dumb. They could have experimented with different scales and let the community choose, they didnt. They can still come out with maps with different scales, but I find Eugene to be somewhat inflexible in their ways.

Like regiments having a range adjustment slider. So easy

[dumba]

Originally posted by DanTheMan:

military table top figurine painters masquerading as a software company care a ♥♥♥♥ ton more about recreating the Order of Battle in minute detail and hats and uniforms and models and tank barrels

Well they're not doing a stellar job of it, exactly....

[Chipolino]

Originally posted by commissaire lachance🇫🇷:

Originally posted by DanTheMan:

Ignore the in game unit ratings. Its just another Eugen goof that they still havent fixed a year in. Just removing them might make the game clearer to new players, but Eugen has decided leave it, because My Name is Eugene.

As far as why BGS is being added, IT'S HISTORY!!!!!!! YAY!!!! Pointless from a gamelay perspective apparently (when was the last time you saw Sicherungs on the map?) , but Eugen can bring to bear all those hours reading scanned documents from the 1980s and show everyone how military historians roll.

Havent you figured out that these military table top figurine painters masquerading as a software company care a ♥♥♥♥ ton more about recreating the Order of Battle in minute detail and hats and uniforms and models and tank barrels than working on the gameplay, maps? I'll be fair and say there is a frightening segment of the playerbase that actually looks at the models that closely for mistakes.

Who saw "New Units" in the title and thought: Tank? SF? Maybe a standalone firesupport unit? Plane? Arent they very clever in making things sound exciting?

if eugen was really obsessed with realism, they wouldn't have compressed the distances and released a 1:1 scale game

Yeah exactly, just enough adherence to faux realism to serve as an excuse for unpopular/ bad design decisions.

[Luxx]

Originally posted by EUG MadMat:

We're not talking about GSG 9 here, just regular Bundesgrenzschutzen.
GSG 9 is the elite counter-terrorist branch of the BGS, not the whole of it. Just like our GIGN is the elite counter-terrorist branch of the Gendarmerie.

Thats correct. But in an armed conflict BGS(also there was no BGS in West Berlin because West Berlin was not part of the Federal Republic of Germany) would use the G1 as Standard Rifle and also the MG 2 or G8 (same as Grenzer MPi AK47) and women wouldn't take action as combatants in 1989 ;)

But of course its an alternate history line in WARNO.

[ArxInvicta]

Originally posted by Luxx:

Originally posted by EUG MadMat:

We're not talking about GSG 9 here, just regular Bundesgrenzschutzen.
GSG 9 is the elite counter-terrorist branch of the BGS, not the whole of it. Just like our GIGN is the elite counter-terrorist branch of the Gendarmerie.

Thats correct. But in an armed conflict BGS(also there was no BGS in West Berlin because West Berlin was not part of the Federal Republic of Germany) would use the G1 as Standard Rifle and also the MG 2 or G8 (same as Grenzer MPi AK47) and women wouldn't take action as combatants in 1989 ;)

But of course its an alternate history line in WARNO.

The part about women not taking action is actually questionable - the game takes place in 1989 and the first women entered service in 1987 in the BGS. One could argue that during a russian invasion, where west Berlin is effectively encircled, the west Berlin command would not give those women a job behind a desk, when every soldier would be desperately needed.

[QuandaleDingleberry]

Women in the BGS unit is accurate

Saw some incels complaining about women being in the game. Except it's accurate. Women began serving in the Bundesgrenzschutz (BGS) in 1987. Well within the timeline of this game. In a WW3 scenario, I don't see why women already trained and serving in a unit wouldn't be utilized.

[[EUG] MadMat]

This is a non-debate not requiring further comment.
Next one get deleted.