Bug report, Javelin LML cannot enter buildings

[r.gibbon]

The Javelin LML MANPADS unit cannot enter buildings and so remains fully visible and vulnerable in urban terrain.
I know that there was a time that missile units could not use buildings to reflect the real constraints of pre soft launch missile weapons, but now that even TOW and recoilless rifle teams can enter buildings, it seems like an oversight that the LML cannot.
It should probably also have the same stealth as other MANPADS, or if non shoulder launched units are considered less stealthy, then Mistral should be treated that way too.

[Rabidnid]

Not a bug a feature.

Was a nerf added to it a long time ago, during another time that 2nd UK was OP as ♥♥♥♥.

[r.gibbon]

So it wasn't from the time that most missiles couldn't use buildings?
I can understand it being for balance, but with all other missile launchers being able to use buildings now, it seems inappropriate, and UK AA is about as weak as it gets. Sure this would buff the LML, but that can be accounted for with a points increase. At the moment the LML operates under a different rational to all the other weapon teams.

[ChargingSnail]

Originally posted by r.gibbon:

So it wasn't from the time that most missiles couldn't use buildings?
I can understand it being for balance, but with all other missile launchers being able to use buildings now, it seems inappropriate, and UK AA is about as weak as it gets. Sure this would buff the LML, but that can be accounted for with a points increase. At the moment the LML operates under a different rational to all the other weapon teams.

Don't be sad. Mistral is treated as normal MANPAD, when irl it is a something like this javelin. For balance of course.

[[ACPL] Jon]

Originally posted by ChargingSnail:

Originally posted by r.gibbon:

So it wasn't from the time that most missiles couldn't use buildings?
I can understand it being for balance, but with all other missile launchers being able to use buildings now, it seems inappropriate, and UK AA is about as weak as it gets. Sure this would buff the LML, but that can be accounted for with a points increase. At the moment the LML operates under a different rational to all the other weapon teams.

Don't be sad (...)

...this is just how it works out sometimes.
https://youtu.be/3qE6p7mUQ4A?t=10

[r.gibbon]

If you guys are right and this is an intended feature, then I do apologise for dripping about it. It does seem to me like an oversight from a previous balance philosophy that has been reverted from all the other units, but this one was missed.
It seems strange that the Mistral, the game's best Manpad, and the other one that needs a firing post and cannot be shoulder launched, wouldn't wouldn't have this arbitrary nerf where the LML would, doesn't it?

[Vindicare]

Originally posted by r.gibbon:

If you guys are right and this is an intended feature, then I do apologise for dripping about it. It does seem to me like an oversight from a previous balance philosophy that has been reverted from all the other units, but this one was missed.
It seems strange that the Mistral, the game's best Manpad, and the other one that needs a firing post and cannot be shoulder launched, wouldn't wouldn't have this arbitrary nerf where the LML would, doesn't it?

Well, the way MANPADS are modeled in this game is pretty straight foward. All have a salvo length of one and an approximate reload time of 12 seconds. Because the LML has 3 tubes it gets the salvo length of three. I can see why this might be misleading, if someone knows how the real life counterparts are operating, but in the game MANPADs are moddeled in a very specific way to ensure some form of corherency and, arguebly, at least the attempt of balance.

[Rabidnid]

Originally posted by r.gibbon:

If you guys are right and this is an intended feature, then I do apologise for dripping about it. It does seem to me like an oversight from a previous balance philosophy that has been reverted from all the other units, but this one was missed.
It seems strange that the Mistral, the game's best Manpad, and the other one that needs a firing post and cannot be shoulder launched, wouldn't wouldn't have this arbitrary nerf where the LML would, doesn't it?

France only has Mistral while Brits also have the Javelin. Also the 3 salvo over the single salvo. it did and does still make sense.

[r.gibbon]

Originally posted by Rabidnid:

France only has Mistral while Brits also have the Javelin. Also the 3 salvo over the single salvo. it did and does still make sense.

Okay, I can accept that it makes sense for balance, being able to have functionally 3 manpads, even a mediocre one, in a building for the price of one good one would be very powerful. I still don't think that this is a good solution though. Balance can be achieved by upping the cost. If it were 20 points more it would be equivalent to 2 Igla, which would give an equivalent rate of fire, more shots, better range, fire and forget, better stealth, faster movement, better optics, and a couple of rifles into the bargain! That seems fairly fair to me. If they were 75 points then you could take 3 Strela for the same amount, giving significantly higher volume of fire, and twice the ammunition on hand, along with the f&f, stealth, optics, rifles, and speed benefits.

[Ata]

Its a game, balance is more important to developers realism is a secondary concern

[r.gibbon]

Originally posted by Ata:

Its a game, balance is more important to developers realism is a secondary concern

Right, but if it can be balanced in a way that is consistent or realistic, that should be better right? Nobody is complaining about the balance of Abrams out performing T55.

[Name]

Originally posted by Rabidnid:

Not a bug a feature.

Same phrase was used when sound scumming was a thing.