101st needs a bit of a buff to air

[Bean]

The 101st is an alright division but could use some slight adjustments, such as getting the F-111f LGB (Small one) and perhaps a SEAD plane.

[Ahriman]

They have 155mm artillery, and the EW plane. You just need to go old school with them, that's kinda their flavor. If you want that, you play 82nd, simple as.

[Bean]

Originally posted by Ahriman:

They have 155mm artillery, and the EW plane. You just need to go old school with them, that's kinda their flavor. If you want that, you play 82nd, simple as.

The soviets get so much more in their division in terms of artillery and plane support, I don't think 1 or 2 LGB planes will make much of a difference in terms of balance

Also the EW is almost pointless, you mainly face strela's or ASF's, whilst yes the ECM helps against them, it doesn't protect your other aircraft

[Ahriman]

Yes, but do ask the question, what weakness would the 101st have against the opposition when they have incredible Recon, incredible Infantry, solid Tanks, best Choppers, decent AA, great Artillery, and now would also have a solid Air tab.

Having now played the 101st, currently the deck is pretty balanced, and a lot of it hinges on the ability for the 101st to easily deal with AA. The LGB plane alone would bust that deck, because with the EW plane in tow, Pact can't shoot it down, so it would freely be able to bomb all vital units one by one.

The 56. on the other hand has plane support, yes, but it is painfully mid. Their best ASF gets easily dunked by even the F-4, and their AA tab consists of short-range IR AA, or squishy Gun-platforms, so they would have nothing to stop an LGB plane escorted by an EW plane and even just one F-4 or F-15. The F-111 would be able to steer away from IR AA range by the time it drops the bomb, and the MiGs would get hit and evaced by the Sparrows before they can shoot down the F-111.

The two decks are surprisingly well balanced, the dev blog made the 101st sound outright busted, but now that they are out, I dare say they are in a good spot.

The Air Tab is also the way it is to encourage the use of the 82nd over the 101st. You get Forward Deploy and better Air, but in exchange, you lose out on the great range of Infantry and Recon as well as stocked up Helo section, as well as the Abrams.

[Bean]

Originally posted by Ahriman:

The 56. on the other hand has plane support, yes, but it is painfully mid. Their best ASF gets easily dunked by even the F-4

The 56 gets AT planes that have incredible reach, LGB planes that can kill a Abrams after 1 run guaranteed and those "easily dunked on planes" are more useful than you think, I can shoot down F-15's reliably with the MiG-23's so long as the F-15's deploy first (Which is why having 2 of each support plane helps massively)

As for the weakness of the 101st, it would be its reliance on helicopters and expensive AA, it only takes 1 strela hit for a Apache to start swinging around wildly, meaning the 2nd strela is free. If you get 4 strela's or igla's, Apache's aren't as powerful as perceived (Especially when a plane comes in to kill them). The AA is almost 100 points per card (I know you sell the helicopters), but all it is is Stingers and at most 2 to 4 Chaparral SAM's (Which can easily be destroyed with either Grad or planes).

I'm finding it a lot easier to play the 56th and win than the 101st, helicopters and tanks are good, but rocket artillery and AT planes are better.

[Amormaliar]

Originally posted by Bean:

As for the weakness of the 101st, it would be its reliance on helicopters and expensive AA,

Reliance on helicopters is not a weakness, more so when you have F-15 for air-superiority - their heli tab literally the strongest in NATO. "Expensive" AA is not a weakness too, considering that it's a standard AA, not SEAD-able and you have cheap options too.

[TornadoADV]

The 101st's Raven with it's ability to loiter AND spot Radars combined with the towed 155mm means you can get rounds on target accurately. SAM slingers aren't know for being well armored, if at all.

[Bean]

Originally posted by TornadoADV:

The 101st's Raven with it's ability to loiter AND spot Radars combined with the towed 155mm means you can get rounds on target accurately. SAM slingers aren't know for being well armored, if at all.

They are known for being mobile though, it's just a case of moving the site after it fires

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by Bean:

2 to 4 Chaparral SAM's (Which can easily be destroyed with either Grad or planes).

Originally posted by Bean:

They are known for being mobile though, it's just a case of moving the site after it fires

So which is it? Are they easy targets for Grads and Planes, or are they easy to move after they fire?

Also, you can get Stingers in cheaper Transports than Helos, nothing stops you from bringing them in cheaper ones and then if you need them faster to the front, you can use your previous Chinooks and Blackhawks without selling them to haul them after unloading them.

But you also basically contradict your own statement in regards to LGB planes being added to the 101st, when your core argument against the plane power of the 56. is their LGB plane and the AT plane. The difference here is that the 101st also gets the EW plane, which would make the LGB plane nigh impossible to hit.

You are also taking no ASF basically if you are going with 4 AT planes and 2 LGBs, because you are already looking at 4 slots filled up. If you are also planning on taking arty and decent Logi to use that arty, you are stretched pretty thin on CP.

As Amormaliar pointed out, relying on Helos is not a weakness, it makes the 101st extremely powerful since Apaches have no reason being on the very front, and unlike Nato, Pact planes aren't as reliable on the suicide run to take out one of the 5+ Apaches you can bring in that deck, not without surrendering air superiority to the enemy. They have plenty of range to snipe units trying to cross No Man's Land, and you have access to excellent Recon which you can use to spot the enemy's most front AA units.

[Bean]

The grad is a fast to fire weapon with a generous hit radius that is cheap with the V version, the 101st doesn't get any kind of MLRS like it, their artillery is single round salvos.

Pact on the other hand, gets armoured SAM's, resilient to artillery and able to move (Manpads being an exception)

Originally posted by Ahriman:

Originally posted by Bean:

2 to 4 Chaparral SAM's (Which can easily be destroyed with either Grad or planes).

Originally posted by Bean:

They are known for being mobile though, it's just a case of moving the site after it fires

So which is it? Are they easy targets for Grads and Planes, or are they easy to move after they fire?

Also, you can get Stingers in cheaper Transports than Helos, nothing stops you from bringing them in cheaper ones and then if you need them faster to the front, you can use your previous Chinooks and Blackhawks without selling them to haul them after unloading them.

But you also basically contradict your own statement in regards to LGB planes being added to the 101st, when your core argument against the plane power of the 56. is their LGB plane and the AT plane. The difference here is that the 101st also gets the EW plane, which would make the LGB plane nigh impossible to hit.

You are also taking no ASF basically if you are going with 4 AT planes and 2 LGBs, because you are already looking at 4 slots filled up. If you are also planning on taking arty and decent Logi to use that arty, you are stretched pretty thin on CP.

As Amormaliar pointed out, relying on Helos is not a weakness, it makes the 101st extremely powerful since Apaches have no reason being on the very front, and unlike Nato, Pact planes aren't as reliable on the suicide run to take out one of the 5+ Apaches you can bring in that deck, not without surrendering air superiority to the enemy. They have plenty of range to snipe units trying to cross No Man's Land, and you have access to excellent Recon which you can use to spot the enemy's most front AA units.

[Bean]

There are no radar AA in 52nd, PACT has a lot of infrared AA, the EW plane isn't that good with 0 weapons and its sole purpose to be jamming something that isn't there.

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by Bean:

There are no radar AA in 52nd, PACT has a lot of infrared AA, the EW plane isn't that good with 0 weapons and its sole purpose to be jamming something that isn't there.

And the LGB plane would be able to snipe units outside of the IR range, while the EW plane would prevent Divisions with Radar AA from taking it down. So once more we need to ask the question, would this be busted in a deck that already has the best long range helicopter, some of the best infantry and recon, and decent selection of tanks and AA with good Artillery.

You would have to get either A) extraordinary lucky, or B) face an incompetent opponent to get rid of the LGB plane, or play one of the two decks Soviets have that gets the MiG-31 and then pray.

Again, if you want planes, you play 82nd, if you want helicopters, you play 101st, it is simple as that.

[Bean]

Originally posted by Ahriman:

And the LGB plane would be able to snipe units outside of the IR range, while the EW plane would prevent Divisions with Radar AA from taking it down. So once more we need to ask the question, would this be busted in a deck that already has the best long range helicopter, some of the best infantry and recon, and decent selection of tanks and AA with good Artillery.

You would have to get either A) extraordinary lucky, or B) face an incompetent opponent to get rid of the LGB plane, or play one of the two decks Soviets have that gets the MiG-31 and then pray.

Again, if you want planes, you play 82nd, if you want helicopters, you play 101st, it is simple as that.

Alright, now I understand your viewpoint, I was wrong, sorry that I took so long to realise

I've been using the Apache as a close air support weapon rather than a sniper, I suppose the F-111f can do the CAS job, just not to an accurate degree.

I suppose its time for me to start learning how to get good with the Apache.