The Atgm bias is about to get worse

[GAINSB]

Milan2 in game: 24 pen
konkurs in game: 20 pen

While in real life:
Milan 2 ~550mm RHA (https://weaponsystems.net/system/1058-MILAN)
Konkurs ~750mmRHA (https://weaponsystems.net/system/549-9K113+Konkurs)

Earlier in warno, there were BMP2s with konkurs everywhere and I could understand that for balancing it was nerfed, but now less divs have BMP2s, furthermore there are much more Bradelys than there use to be and now the Brits are about to receive a IFV with MILAN2.
That means that now nato will have a total atgm dominance, if it wasnt already the case...

According to the math, a konkurs team will most of the time not manage to destroy a heavy from the front with a full stack of ammo, while nato atgm easily can...
At this point this is the major imbalance between red and blue, and it's not even historically accurate, it simply makes no sense.

And TOW2 (the device weights 100kg+) can run as fast as smaller and lighter konkurs team, just lol, it's an enormous atgm that requires more than 2 people, it has more Hps, why does it run as fast as small and light Milan 2 and konkurs teams?
The balance of atgms is so in favor of nato, and in such a ahistorical and biased manner ...

So yeah there's that

[DasaKamov]

Because the Warsaw Pact doesn't have any other ATGMs except the Konkurs. /s

Also, complaining that infantry weapons teams move at the same (very slow) speed is REALLY reaching for something to complain about.

[GAINSB]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Because the Warsaw Pact doesn't have any other ATGMs except the Konkurs. /s

Also, complaining that infantry weapons teams move at the same (very slow) speed is REALLY reaching for something to complain about.

Oh come on, the warsaw pact basically only have the konkurs to face armor, ONE div has a better atgm, and guess what, everybody takes this div these days, i think it shows how bad not having good atgm impacts a div

And the pace of the TOW2 is the only thing you could debate on? I guess you don't have anything to say about my first argument am I wrong?

[thugnightly]

This is an uninformed and inexperienced post. PACT atgms are more cost efficient because NATO armour is so expensive and terrible. Bastion ATGM found on the BMP-3 and Rapira-100 is literally the best ATGM in game for range.

Also the Brits have some of the worst divs in game they need a buff.

[CORRIDA]

Well your source not only states that there are reports about 800mm penetration for milan-2 (opposed to 750mm konkurs) it also says that the konkurs-m has the same penetration just with tandem as the regular konkurs.
As Ingame (Milan 17 pen/ Millan 24 Pen)/(Konkurs 20 Pen/Konkurs-M 23 pen)

I guess the problem is due to two reason.
First: Arm factories rarely published the capabilities of their weapons and the countries probably won't let them anyway. I even doubt that you find correct stats older equipment.
Especially if it still used today
The devs maybe even confused the info about the MILAN 3 with that of MILAN 2.

Second: Its a game, the dev's already included the ERA and tandem mechanic which works different as you would expect. Thus creating weird stats sometimes.

I also think that they tried to recreate the feeling of superior number of russian tanks.

As far as i am aware were nato more worried about enemy tanks that the Pact side. They had more ideas how to deal with it while the russians used their ATGM for flank protection.
Similar to the situation of planes. Here Nato hat superiority which results in a lot of russian AA systems.

And about the 3 Lives atgm groups, i have no idea. As weren't the 7 man groups with ATGM not bad enough.

[GAINSB]

Originally posted by CORRIDA:

Well your source not only states that there are reports about 800mm penetration for milan-2 (opposed to 750mm konkurs) it also says that the konkurs-m has the same penetration just with tandem as the regular konkurs.
As Ingame (Milan 17 pen/ Millan 24 Pen)/(Konkurs 20 Pen/Konkurs-M 23 pen)

I guess the problem is due to two reason.
First: Arm factories rarely published the capabilities of their weapons and the countries probably won't let them anyway. I even doubt that you find correct stats older equipment.
Especially if it still used today
The devs maybe even confused the info about the MILAN 3 with that of MILAN 2.

Second: Its a game, the dev's already included the ERA and tandem mechanic which works different as you would expect. Thus creating weird stats sometimes.

I also think that they tried to recreate the feeling of superior number of russian tanks.

As far as i am aware were nato more worried about enemy tanks that the Pact side. They had more ideas how to deal with it while the russians used their ATGM for flank protection.
Similar to the situation of planes. Here Nato hat superiority which results in a lot of russian AA systems.

And about the 3 Lives atgm groups, i have no idea. As weren't the 7 man groups with ATGM not bad enough.

The source stipulate 800mm for MILAN2-T, not milan 2, read again

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by GAINSB:

i think it shows how bad not having good atgm impacts a div

Turns out, having bad ATGMs doesn't really affect a division in overall performance.

[CORRIDA]

Originally posted by GAINSB:

The source stipulate 800mm for MILAN2-T, not milan 2, read again

Nope, Your Site says
Milan Penetration 350 mm RHA
MILAN 2 550 - 600 mm RHA Some sources indicate up to 800 mm RHA

Konkurs Penetration 750 - 800 mm RHA
Konkurs-M Penetration 750 - 800 mm RHA behind ERA
And thats what i said:

"Well your source not only states that there are reports about 800mm penetration for milan-2 (opposed to 750mm konkurs) it also says that the konkurs-m has the same penetration just with tandem as the regular konkurs."

[GAINSB]

Originally posted by CORRIDA:

Originally posted by GAINSB:

The source stipulate 800mm for MILAN2-T, not milan 2, read again

Nope, Your Site says
Milan Penetration 350 mm RHA
MILAN 2 550 - 600 mm RHA Some sources indicate up to 800 mm RHA

Konkurs Penetration 750 - 800 mm RHA
Konkurs-M Penetration 750 - 800 mm RHA behind ERA
And thats what i said:

"Well your source not only states that there are reports about 800mm penetration for milan-2 (opposed to 750mm konkurs) it also says that the konkurs-m has the same penetration just with tandem as the regular konkurs."

literally quoting the website: " In the MILAN 2 this was increased to over 550 mm RHA. The MILAN 2T introduced a tandem HEAT warhead for use against tanks fitted with ERA, the improved standoff range increased armor penetration to over 800 mm RHA"

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by GAINSB:

literally quoting the website: " In the MILAN 2 this was increased to over 550 mm RHA. The MILAN 2T introduced a tandem HEAT warhead for use against tanks fitted with ERA, the improved standoff range increased armor penetration to over 800 mm RHA"

I believe he is referring to the Details section, where it says what he is saying. Down there on the Milan 2 it adds the 800 mm RHA comment, with Milan 2T being its own separate tab.

So, you know, the information is a bit all over the place.

[GAINSB]

Originally posted by Ahriman:

Originally posted by GAINSB:

literally quoting the website: " In the MILAN 2 this was increased to over 550 mm RHA. The MILAN 2T introduced a tandem HEAT warhead for use against tanks fitted with ERA, the improved standoff range increased armor penetration to over 800 mm RHA"

I believe he is referring to the Details section, where it says what he is saying. Down there on the Milan 2 it adds the 800 mm RHA comment, with Milan 2T being its own separate tab.

So, you know, the information is a bit all over the place.

Idk, the detail section specifies 550 to 600mm or maybe 800mm RHA for milan2, but anyway, even if it was 800mm, there's no reason to have the konkurs pen so inferior to it since its around 750mm

[Marek]

Originally posted by GAINSB:

Milan2 in game: 24 pen
konkurs in game: 20 pen

While in real life:
Milan 2 ~550mm RHA (https://weaponsystems.net/system/1058-MILAN)
Konkurs ~750mmRHA (https://weaponsystems.net/system/549-9K113+Konkurs)

Earlier in warno, there were BMP2s with konkurs everywhere and I could understand that for balancing it was nerfed, but now less divs have BMP2s, furthermore there are much more Bradelys than there use to be and now the Brits are about to receive a IFV with MILAN2.
That means that now nato will have a total atgm dominance, if it wasnt already the case...

According to the math, a konkurs team will most of the time not manage to destroy a heavy from the front with a full stack of ammo, while nato atgm easily can...
At this point this is the major imbalance between red and blue, and it's not even historically accurate, it simply makes no sense.

And TOW2 (the device weights 100kg+) can run as fast as smaller and lighter konkurs team, just lol, it's an enormous atgm that requires more than 2 people, it has more Hps, why does it run as fast as small and light Milan 2 and konkurs teams?
The balance of atgms is so in favor of nato, and in such a ahistorical and biased manner ...

So yeah there's that

The problem is not a lot of milan 2 even if there are slowly more than konkurs. But that they have unrealistic penetration. The fact that the developers put Milan 2T in the game and called it milan 2 is a nice trick. There is difference between Milan 2 and Milan 2T.
It's as if they added an Konkurs with 23 penetration to the game and took away the tandem warhead. If Milan 2 can be in the game with statistics from Milan 2T year 1993, then why do we have only one division with konkurs M?. Where is metis m can continue..
The fact that Milan 2 has penetration like tow 2 Eugen, even children from kindergarten won't believe you.

[GAINSB]

Originally posted by Marek:

The problem is not a lot of milan 2 even if there are slowly more than konkurs. But that they have unrealistic penetration. The fact that the developers put Milan 2T in the game and called it milan 2 is a nice trick. There is difference between Milan 2 and Milan 2T.
It's as if they added an Konkurs with 23 penetration to the game and took away the tandem warhead. If Milan 2 can be in the game with statistics from Milan 2T year 1993, then why do we have only one division with konkurs M?. Where is metis m can continue..
The fact that Milan 2 has penetration like tow 2 Eugen, even children from kindergarten won't believe you.

I fully agree with you, it's a MILAN 2-T, meaning that almost every nato div has their best possible atgm (Milan2T and TOW2) while sov only have one div with their best atgm, while the rest has an extremely nerfed verison of the konkurs, not even the elite inf division (VDV) possesses a good atgm, at this point its clearly a bias.
People were complaining about sov armor being too strong and they all got -1Hp with the last update, why can't they fix the atgm non historic imbalance?
The T72 got nerfed right away because of some FCS detail, but the Milan2 can keep insane pen because? Same thing here, ERA gets nerfed because its too effective, but konkurs stays low because why not.
When it's in favor of blue they say "it's not a simulation, balance blah blah blah" but when it's nerf time for PACT, they go at it hard for "historical reasons"

[Marek]

Originally posted by GAINSB:

Originally posted by Marek:

The problem is not a lot of milan 2 even if there are slowly more than konkurs. But that they have unrealistic penetration. The fact that the developers put Milan 2T in the game and called it milan 2 is a nice trick. There is difference between Milan 2 and Milan 2T.
It's as if they added an Konkurs with 23 penetration to the game and took away the tandem warhead. If Milan 2 can be in the game with statistics from Milan 2T year 1993, then why do we have only one division with konkurs M?. Where is metis m can continue..
The fact that Milan 2 has penetration like tow 2 Eugen, even children from kindergarten won't believe you.

I fully agree with you, it's a MILAN 2-T, meaning that almost every nato div has their best possible atgm (Milan2T and TOW2) while sov only have one div with their best atgm, while the rest has an extremely nerfed verison of the konkurs, not even the elite inf division (VDV) possesses a good atgm, at this point its clearly a bias.
People were complaining about sov armor being too strong and they all got -1Hp with the last update, why can't they fix the atgm non historic imbalance?

And do you want endless moaning natoboys? It's better to suffer their unrealistic buff.