T-80 and TOC-1

[VellaKalps]

T-80BVM and TOC-1 is OP and need nerfed, T-80 with quantity and TOC-1 with 10 sec penal after firing!

[GAINSB]

1 TOS-1 per deck does seem better indeed, two is too spammy, just killed 4000 points of enemy forces with 2 Buras last game lol, its a bit too much

[Marek]

Originally posted by VellaKalps:

T-80BVM and TOC-1 is OP and need nerfed, T-80 with quantity and TOC-1 with 10 sec penal after firing!

Hehe yes t-80BVM is op true. :D

[Ahriman]

Let's see...

Has to be at the very front to be able to be in range, check.
Takes 21 seconds to aim, check.
Takes nearly 2 full Urals to rearm, check.
Effective area of effect easily avoided and damage negated by a player that isn't piling everything into the radius of a single command unit, check.

Yeah, I see no real balancing problems here with the TOS-1, considering that it is one of the most situational and skill issue punishing weapons in the game. The only times it is effective is if the enemy has decided to pile all its units into a very, very small area, or you get extremely lucky and the enemy decides to stay still during an offensive while you take your sweet time aiming the thing to fire. Sure, you can always pre-aim it in case you predict an offensive, but even then, the moment the Buratino fires, you can relatively easily just reverse for how slow those rockets come down, meaning you will at most lose only a few vehicles that maybe covers the cost of the Buratino.

Every other occasion it really will only really get a volley or at most two off before it either is destroyed by a simple air strike as you just need to Cluster to hit in the general direction of the thing and it is dead, or your opponent realizes they just need to... spread around a bit more to negate the effectiveness of the thing.

Taking the Buratino is not a no-brainer move, as it will never be able to snipe anything like your Akatsiya would, or provide smoke like the other arty pieces, something that is very much needed to deal with Nato TOW teams and heavy tanks. You maybe have one in the deck to begin with, 2 if you want to meme on a city map.

[VellaKalps]

In recent games, a lot of T-80 attacks, one player has 4-6 units, they shoot from a distance with rockets and Leo 2 can't do anything, the same with Abrams.

For TOS-1 and other MLRS, need stop penalty after firing!

[mndbsd]

tos-1 is a nice meme in 10v10 on small maps

other than that is meh at best, as argued in posts above

also 360 sec reload...yikes

Originally posted by VellaKalps:

In recent games, a lot of T-80 attacks, one player has 4-6 units, they shoot from a distance with rockets and Leo 2 can't do anything, the same with Abrams.

For TOS-1 and other MLRS, need stop penalty after firing!

and what stops Nato from doing the same? does nato not have rockets?

nato can do it even better, since mortars apply an ungodly amount of suppression to vehicles, and guess which faction has the better mortars...you guessed it, it isn't pact.

put 2 t-80s next to eachother and 1 tampella will rek their cohesion in one or two salvos.

[Ahriman]

Originally posted by VellaKalps:

In recent games, a lot of T-80 attacks, one player has 4-6 units, they shoot from a distance with rockets and Leo 2 can't do anything, the same with Abrams.

For TOS-1 and other MLRS, need stop penalty after firing!

As mndbsd said, they do have a penalty after firing, the reload time on them is several minutes, you do realise this, yeah? The only times these kinds of weapons become a problem are 10v10 where you have up to 20 of them on the field at once on average, but everyone that realises that 10v10 is not the intended game mode knows that you don't balance the game based on that. In 4v4 and under, these kinds of weapons are massive waste of points if massed up to such a degree that lets you use them nigh constantly.

As for the tank battle, Leo 2 actually has plenty of options, same with the Abrams. Move forward. Both win the long range gun fight against the T-80s, which in turn is also the advantage of the Leo because if the T80s try to creep closer to try to make up for their lack of accuracy, the Leo can reverse and continue firing with the same effectiveness as ever.

Do point out which size games you play because that has a notable amount of effect on what works and how well, as I already mentioned.

[GAINSB]

Originally posted by VellaKalps:

In recent games, a lot of T-80 attacks, one player has 4-6 units, they shoot from a distance with rockets and Leo 2 can't do anything, the same with Abrams.

For TOS-1 and other MLRS, need stop penalty after firing!

What?? The missiles from T80s do 2-3dmg to nato heavies, and they have around 50% hit chance, meaning that to destroy a Ch2/Abrahams/Leo2, you need to hit 3 times minimum, aka shoot 6 times on average on the same target, if you are getting 6 T80s in range to fire on an abrahams and you have no bradleys/Apache to compensate for the missiles, you f***ed up somewhere and didn't understand the correct range of your equipment.

There are numerous extremely lethal missile units in NATO,much more lethal than their Pact counterpart, embed those in your armored columns and those poor T80 missiles won't be a problem anymore

[mndbsd]

Originally posted by GAINSB:

What?? The missiles from T80s do 2-3dmg to nato heavies,

you mean 1-2 dmg, because no T-80 can do 3 dmg to a chally2, leo2, m1a1HA.

2 is max, and thats from U and UD, the other lesser t-80s can go an fk themselves with 1 dmg/shot with 45% acc

[GAINSB]

Originally posted by mndbsd:

Originally posted by GAINSB:

What?? The missiles from T80s do 2-3dmg to nato heavies,

you mean 1-2 dmg, because no T-80 can do 3 dmg to a chally2, leo2, m1a1HA.

2 is max, and thats from U and UD, the other lesser t-80s can go an fk themselves with 1 dmg/shot with 45% acc

Yeah, it's more like you say, I just wanted to show that even if you're being extra generous with the numbers, T80's missiles still are not an important threat to heavies