PACT just gets bullied by NATO Planes

[DatBandit]

I cant be the only one who sees the glaring disparity here. Pact AA is so bad it's pretty much masochism play at this point. Nato AA fighters fly for days over all types of not matter what it is while Pact 40% ecm planes seem to face plant into enemy AA....it's not even like a hail of missiles either its like 2 stingers will take out my sead planes and 7 strellas and 2 iglas will miss Eagles while they make a couple passes while taking out other AA planes and damaging another. I really have no grip against anything else in this game really but AA needs a once over in balancing cuz it feels awful watching your AA blow its load the get bombed to kingdom come as the A1 hoard showers over whats left of your units.

[Radegast]

war is not fair

[ArmedGhost-]

Messaggio originale di DatBandit:

I cant be the only one who sees the glaring disparity here. Pact AA is so bad it's pretty much masochism play at this point. Nato AA fighters fly for days over all types of not matter what it is while Pact 40% ecm planes seem to face plant into enemy AA....it's not even like a hail of missiles either its like 2 stingers will take out my sead planes and 7 strellas and 2 iglas will miss Eagles while they make a couple passes while taking out other AA planes and damaging another. I really have no grip against anything else in this game really but AA needs a once over in balancing cuz it feels awful watching your AA blow its load the get bombed to kingdom come as the A1 hoard showers over whats left of your units.

Never fails to see people constantly complaining that X is unbalanced when in reality they are just dog ass at the game.

I played a match earlier and the dude on the other team was complaining that AA needed nerfed, you're saying it needs buffed. I say actually learn the game mechanics and stop blaming the game for your lack of skill and understanding. If I can figure out an AA defense, so you can you.

[Tekay]

Ir aa is maybe not the best thing to shoot down eagles, try your radar aa and fell the difference.

[DasaKamov]

Messaggio originale di onions:

When i try play as pact every missile misses, every tank shot misses, 12 group squads of spetsnaz loses 1 on 1 to 4 group recon squads

Holy insane conspiracy theories, Batman.

[DatBandit]

Messaggio originale di Radegast:

war is not fair

You're right lol...but this is a early access game we paid for, that's still undergoing balancing.

Messaggio originale di LethalDiabetic-:

Messaggio originale di DatBandit:

I cant be the only one who sees the glaring disparity here. Pact AA is so bad it's pretty much masochism play at this point. Nato AA fighters fly for days over all types of not matter what it is while Pact 40% ecm planes seem to face plant into enemy AA....it's not even like a hail of missiles either its like 2 stingers will take out my sead planes and 7 strellas and 2 iglas will miss Eagles while they make a couple passes while taking out other AA planes and damaging another. I really have no grip against anything else in this game really but AA needs a once over in balancing cuz it feels awful watching your AA blow its load the get bombed to kingdom come as the A1 hoard showers over whats left of your units.

Never fails to see people constantly complaining that X is unbalanced when in reality they are just dog ass at the game.

I played a match earlier and the dude on the other team was complaining that AA needed nerfed, you're saying it needs buffed. I say actually learn the game mechanics and stop blaming the game for your lack of skill and understanding. If I can figure out an AA defense, so you can you.

A couple things, for starters I get your frustration, so I understand the hostility without any constructive input except, "l2p". However if you're seeing post after post saying the same thing...I think it needs addressing. I don't post often, so far Eugen seems to be doing their best to address these issues, just doing my job and providing feedback as we play this early access game. Radar does fair alright, also seeing and hearing issues with Tor though, but other AA like SPAAGs and IF are all but useless most times...even with air optics they don't fire at planes and even light helos tank SPAAGS for long periods...which makes little sense to me...

Messaggio originale di Tekay:

Ir aa is maybe not the best thing to shoot down eagles, try your radar aa and fell the difference.

Not all Divs have have a lot of radar or any radar and mosy Nato planes outclass Pact planes except for British airborne planes...they're actual garbage LOL

[Ahriman]

I have had little issues with Nato planes when I play my Mech divisions, the sheer amount of BUKs or KUBs I can stack in the rear that can fire way before the bomber gets even in range, which then tends to get evaced quickly, or it gets its bombs off, kill off 100 or so points worth of Infantry or maybe some support equipment, after which the 200+ pts plane gets shot out of the sky, which is a win for me.

However, to parrot what was already said, it is often a case of people just hoping to rely on IR over having to micro Radar against SEAD, in addition to only playing Armored Divisions that are limited to mostly using IR AA.

[Vovin]

I only play 10v10 and the only problem I've noticed, especially lately, are weak teammates who don't even have any AA in their section. I was playing a game of Twin Cities earlier where NATO played smart and kept creeping up on the other side of the map from where I was (on other players), switching between helo swarm and tank swarm while probing forward towards the spawn point. I sent some SAMs to deal with the helos and they were destroyed as soon as they spawned by an F-16 SEAD plane flying right over the spawn point. Meanwhile, my SAM net of Buks on the other side of the map shot down probably a dozen planes throughout the match, which is not unusual.

[Sneaky_Beaky]

I play both sides evenly. I play whatever side of the lobby I join on. I mostly play airborne (both sides) because I like forward deployment super a lot.

A. The F-16AGM is strong ngl. I use it as IR SEAD. I'll send a regular F-16SEAD to take out the OSA's and parry missiles with its increased ECM, and an F-16AGM to kill the MTLB Strela's. Then when the pact advance is totally defenseless, I just send helicopters. There are few ways to fix it though, plane is already given at bottom skill rank. The only thing I can suggest, is reduce availability from 2 cards to 1 card. Less OP unit = less problem.

B. I think flares + ECM is overkill. That's probably a big part of why SAM's are underperforming. ECM should be limited to SEAD planes.

C. The new unit mechanics are not clear to 90% of the playerbase for some reason. When I deploy a Kub/Buk SAM site -- I send a CV with them -- to make them elite, +10% accuracy. If more people were aware of this, more planes would get shot down obviously.

[DatBandit]

A couple things fellas...I'm seeing radar is the only solution which is the problem. All other units have more than one counter ie. Expensive Tanks have atgms, rpgs, at planes, side shot from even lower caliber weapons can be lethal...we're talk 300+ tanks. Yet the eagle, which has no equal is, less than 300 points. Gameplay wise pretty one sided cuz there are Divs that don't have radar and there is a hard counter to them in addition to others.

[Medoc]

the bad side you play for.

I can just mock the blue ones by playing for 4 motorshuten, and fly the MIG23 (AT) and throw my missiles at 4200m without flying into the chapral's range of action. These are 140 points of pure pleasure, of which there are 8, breakdown 30, reload 60 sec. And if you take all the Su22(AT) then you will have 14 aircraft (AT) + KLU (2 pieces)

[DatBandit]

Messaggio originale di MedoC:

the bad side you play for.

I can just mock the blue ones by playing for 4 motorshuten, and fly the MIG23 (AT) and throw my missiles at 4200m without flying into the chapral's range of action. These are 140 points of pure pleasure, of which there are 8, breakdown 30, reload 60 sec. And if you take all the Su22(AT) then you will have 14 aircraft (AT) + KLU (2 pieces)

I'm sorry, doesn't sound like you're making any coherent sense at all my friend...slow Su22s are obsolete...nerfed into oblivion...there has to be 0 AA because 1 hit and your plane is retreating...Also the long range missiles aren't on 140 point planes and are not as effective in pact decks imo. Does anyone like having or are capable of bringing an actual argument to this discussion?

[mndbsd]

Messaggio originale di DatBandit:

Does anyone like having or are capable of bringing an actual argument to this discussion?

You must be new here. Welcome to Warno forums.

[ArmedGhost-]

Messaggio originale di DatBandit:

Messaggio originale di Radegast:

war is not fair

You're right lol...but this is a early access game we paid for, that's still undergoing balancing.

Messaggio originale di LethalDiabetic-:

Never fails to see people constantly complaining that X is unbalanced when in reality they are just dog ass at the game.

I played a match earlier and the dude on the other team was complaining that AA needed nerfed, you're saying it needs buffed. I say actually learn the game mechanics and stop blaming the game for your lack of skill and understanding. If I can figure out an AA defense, so you can you.

A couple things, for starters I get your frustration, so I understand the hostility without any constructive input except, "l2p". However if you're seeing post after post saying the same thing...I think it needs addressing. I don't post often, so far Eugen seems to be doing their best to address these issues, just doing my job and providing feedback as we play this early access game. Radar does fair alright, also seeing and hearing issues with Tor though, but other AA like SPAAGs and IF are all but useless most times...even with air optics they don't fire at planes and even light helos tank SPAAGS for long periods...which makes little sense to me...

Messaggio originale di Tekay:

Ir aa is maybe not the best thing to shoot down eagles, try your radar aa and fell the difference.

Not all Divs have have a lot of radar or any radar and mosy Nato planes outclass Pact planes except for British airborne planes...they're actual garbage LOL

What I see is post after post from different people with contradicting, inconsistant opinions.

There's people who say AA is OP, then there's other posts who say AA needs buffed.

There's posts like this with just about any unit in the game, helicopters, jets, artillery, tanks. How can so many units be both OP, but then also need buffed at the same time.

What is seems to me is people say something is OP when they actually play against players who know how to properly utilize units to their fullest potential. Then say something needs buffed because they don't understand how to utilize a particular unit in their favor then get outplayed by the enemy team.

[DatBandit]

Messaggio originale di LethalDiabetic-:

Messaggio originale di DatBandit:

You're right lol...but this is a early access game we paid for, that's still undergoing balancing.





A couple things, for starters I get your frustration, so I understand the hostility without any constructive input except, "l2p". However if you're seeing post after post saying the same thing...I think it needs addressing. I don't post often, so far Eugen seems to be doing their best to address these issues, just doing my job and providing feedback as we play this early access game. Radar does fair alright, also seeing and hearing issues with Tor though, but other AA like SPAAGs and IF are all but useless most times...even with air optics they don't fire at planes and even light helos tank SPAAGS for long periods...which makes little sense to me...





Not all Divs have have a lot of radar or any radar and mosy Nato planes outclass Pact planes except for British airborne planes...they're actual garbage LOL

What I see is post after post from different people with contradicting, inconsistant opinions.

There's people who say AA is OP, then there's other posts who say AA needs buffed.

There's posts like this with just about any unit in the game, helicopters, jets, artillery, tanks. How can so many units be both OP, but then also need buffed at the same time.

What is seems to me is people say something is OP when they actually play against players who know how to properly utilize units to their fullest potential. Then say something needs buffed because they don't understand how to utilize a particular unit in their favor then get outplayed by the enemy team.

Again...this isn't an all of Nato is op and I gave reasons...you're just being dismissive and providing no thing constructive or substantiation anything at all. Except EVERYONE must not know how to play? I gave you many reason why I think air combat should be looked at...because it doesn't feel good atm with some Divs getting bullied for having awful AA that just provide a point sink than do anything.

Messaggio originale di mndbsd:

Messaggio originale di DatBandit:

Does anyone like having or are capable of bringing an actual argument to this discussion?

You must be new here. Welcome to Warno forums.

You're right people are dense in the forums...which is why I stay away from them. Only came on to bring awareness, I did see another post saying the same thing. I've plenty of hours and AA balance has been an ongoing thing I understand, just hoping they don't leave it as is atm.

[Ahriman]

Messaggio originale di DatBandit:

Only came on to bring awareness, I did see another post saying the same thing. I've plenty of hours and AA balance has been an ongoing thing I understand, just hoping they don't leave it as is atm.

They are obviously still tweaking everything, but you also need to keep in mind that there is an incredibly fine line with Air between god tier and a waste of points.

Right now, Radar AA when used properly works against Nato planes, so in that regard they are in a good place. There are counters against Radar AA in the form of the SEAD planes which in turn forces the Radar AA user to ensure they know how to manage their weapons.

Now, if they buffed Pact IR AA so that it can do just as well in AA role as the Radar AA to compensate for the Divisions that lack the said AA, the problem that comes from that is obvious, be the buff directly to those units or in the form of stat nerfs for the Nato planes. You can't bring planes against those Divisions because you can't counter IR AA BEFORE it fires, not without the IR AA player making some next level misplays and letting Recon slip by. Since most Pact IR is on treads, it can just move away when they fire so arty is not an option, SEAD can't detect or attack it so that is pointless, which means that the only option left is... directly rush into the enemy lines without air support, which puts Nato at a major disadvantage against Pact.

In other words, tiny tweaks to ECM and accuracy, but do not expect major nerfs to Nato planes or major buffs to Pact AA. Availability is already very limited for aircraft, so I do dearly wish they do not start hitting that just because some players adamantly refuse to play any other Divisions other than Armored ones that purposefully have to rely on mostly Interceptors over Radar AA for long range AA.