Thoughts on "Last Stand of the Black Horse"

[CapnRaptorman]

I found this operation laughably easy, even on Elite. I have some thoughts about the operation that I feel would make it more interesting and feel more like a last stand.

1) The tank 11th cav platoons are very powerful. I think the roster should be adjusted as follows: replace ITOW launchers in the Recon Platoon with Bradley Scouts (still only 2 vehicles). Replace the 2 Bradley Scouts in the tank platoons with 2 truck mounted Mech Rifles (LAW, min Veterancy), to give the impression that support personal (cooks, clerks, etc) are being pressed into action. The Stinger Teams should be mounted on jeeps, not M113 APCs, as APCs are only assigned to weapon teams if every available rifle and engineering squad has them already.

2) The Soviet assault only barely starts being a challenge on Elite difficulty. Before then, you only need 2 tanks, 2 PIVADs, a scout, and supply trucks to hold the line. I never even get to USE the German troops I get (mission ends before they can deploy). Elite felt like what rookie should have been like. So here is what I think should be done by the AI: give them artillery and mortars to hit you with and force you to move (on regular difficulty and above). On Elite difficulty, they should get a couple of bombers (HE, as this is an armor fight). Have them deploy Soviet style companies (2 tank platoons of 3 each, a recon element of 2 BRDM, an AA element of 2 ZSU Bryusa and a rifle platoon of 3 motostrelki in BMPs) with 1 per wave per difficulty level, supplemented by Mi-24 support (1 per company). On regular difficulty, throw a few VDV air assaults on the flanks (1 VDV command and 3 VDV squads flying in on Mi-8s every other wave) and 2 mortar vehicles arrive to support the attacks with smoke on your last known firing positions. On Elite, add a infantry company to each wave (2 Motostrelki platoons of 3 BTRs each, a tank platoon of 3 tanks, a recon element of 2 recon snipers in jeeps, an AA element of 4 Igla teams in jeeps, and an anti-tank element of 2 ATGM jeeps) and a pair of 122mm towed howitzers set up in the back and start shelling your last known positions.

[Glizzy Gladiator]

I didn't find it too easy myself on my first few goes on elite. It actually took me three tries to win the operation, but after playing it some more I've found sometimes the AI on elite pushes me all the way back to Bad Orb and forces me to bring out some of the German units, and sometimes they never get past the same zone, all with the same deployment and same difficulty. I think in general it is meant to be easier as it is supposed to be the first mission new players play after completing the tutorial

[rednotdead]

Just beat it on Trained, with only two units lost. Never even had to move from my starting treeline in the first zone, never came close to deploying the german units.

It's way too easy and simplistic. Have the soviets come from different directions, give them arty, air support... come on. Anything more than the same T-80+BRM-1+ Mi-8/Mi-24 combo, down the same road, every couple minutes.

[N0rmaN]

On elite its a good challenge. You dont have enough points to stop both the tanks and the helis at the start but its balanced. Red juggernaut on elite is insanely hard.

[Glizzy Gladiator]

Originally posted by rednotdead:

Just beat it on Trained, with only two units lost. Never even had to move from my starting treeline in the first zone, never came close to deploying the german units.

It's way too easy and simplistic. Have the soviets come from different directions, give them arty, air support... come on. Anything more than the same T-80+BRM-1+ Mi-8/Mi-24 combo, down the same road, every couple minutes.

They do come down different roads on Elite

[OrangeGills]

They should increase the scale of assault and defenses simultaneously. Give more starting points, and make larger waves of soviets attack. Force the AI to do something more interesting than proceed down the roads once your position is known.

[MticiansRed]

Originally posted by N0rmaN:

On elite its a good challenge. You dont have enough points to stop both the tanks and the helis at the start but its balanced. Red juggernaut on elite is insanely hard.

+1

[Catiline]

Originally posted by CapnRaptorman:

I found this operation laughably easy, even on Elite. I have some thoughts about the operation that I feel would make it more interesting and feel more like a last stand.

1) The tank 11th cav platoons are very powerful. I think the roster should be adjusted as follows: replace ITOW launchers in the Recon Platoon with Bradley Scouts (still only 2 vehicles). Replace the 2 Bradley Scouts in the tank platoons with 2 truck mounted Mech Rifles (LAW, min Veterancy), to give the impression that support personal (cooks, clerks, etc) are being pressed into action. The Stinger Teams should be mounted on jeeps, not M113 APCs, as APCs are only assigned to weapon teams if every available rifle and engineering squad has them already.

2) The Soviet assault only barely starts being a challenge on Elite difficulty. Before then, you only need 2 tanks, 2 PIVADs, a scout, and supply trucks to hold the line. I never even get to USE the German troops I get (mission ends before they can deploy). Elite felt like what rookie should have been like. So here is what I think should be done by the AI: give them artillery and mortars to hit you with and force you to move (on regular difficulty and above). On Elite difficulty, they should get a couple of bombers (HE, as this is an armor fight). Have them deploy Soviet style companies (2 tank platoons of 3 each, a recon element of 2 BRDM, an AA element of 2 ZSU Bryusa and a rifle platoon of 3 motostrelki in BMPs) with 1 per wave per difficulty level, supplemented by Mi-24 support (1 per company). On regular difficulty, throw a few VDV air assaults on the flanks (1 VDV command and 3 VDV squads flying in on Mi-8s every other wave) and 2 mortar vehicles arrive to support the attacks with smoke on your last known firing positions. On Elite, add a infantry company to each wave (2 Motostrelki platoons of 3 BTRs each, a tank platoon of 3 tanks, a recon element of 2 recon snipers in jeeps, an AA element of 4 Igla teams in jeeps, and an anti-tank element of 2 ATGM jeeps) and a pair of 122mm towed howitzers set up in the back and start shelling your last known positions.

I would like the ai to deploy in more concentrated formations as well

[Catiline]

Originally posted by N0rmaN:

On elite its a good challenge. You dont have enough points to stop both the tanks and the helis at the start but its balanced. Red juggernaut on elite is insanely hard.

I found red jugg easier on elite. Experiences differ though ofc

[Breznev]

Originally posted by N0rmaN:

On elite its a good challenge. You dont have enough points to stop both the tanks and the helis at the start but its balanced. Red juggernaut on elite is insanely hard.

They all seem to easy, I beat both on elite only losing a couple units. Red Jug you just make a handful of T80s and charge with recon and its a done deal.

[Aegmar]

Soviets are only sending a couple vehicles down the road, they should fan out with at least 20 Tanks left and right of the road and try to overwhelm your position.

Also get rid of the Deployment-Point System for the Operations: Just give the player fixed Platoons and Reeinforcements after x time or when conditions are met.

I want to see 3 full platoons of Abrams trying to stop a soviet tank battalion going over the full front of the map, not this piecemeal smallscale stuff you made there.

[CapnRaptorman]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

Soviets are only sending a couple vehicles down the road, they should fan out with at least 20 Tanks left and right of the road and try to overwhelm your position.

Also get rid of the Deployment-Point System for the Operations: Just give the player fixed Platoons and Reeinforcements after x time or when conditions are met.

I want to see 3 full platoons of Abrams trying to stop a soviet tank battalion going over the full front of the map, not this piecemeal smallscale stuff you made there.

Indeed, having just enough starting points to deploy what you have makes for a real "last stand" feel. You would have to set up initial lines and fallback points and truly plan your defense. The A-10s would pull in just in time to buy the 5 minutes you would need for the German infantry to arrive and set up the final line of defense.

[CapnRaptorman]

To be fair, some of these complaints could also be resolved by increasing the command point goal of the mission. Doubling the points would greatly stretch the game out, and stress out your supply of ammo and units.