AA Vs. Helos

[ScreamingEmu]

Gotta do something about this. The fact that the most viable tactic for taking out IR AA positions is to use your helicopters is dumb as hell.

MANPAD's can't hit at close range which makes maps like Geisa way too easy for helicopters. And the amount of helicopters to AA, and the god awful accuracy of AA against helicopters is just broke as hell right now.

As 3 VDV I find the best tactic for taking out AA positions is to just swarm my MI-8 troop transports.

Apaches can snipe Tunguskas with Hellfires.

It's confusing as to why this is so hard to get right when I felt like the WARGAME series had the IR/RADAR/JETS/HELICOPTER meta so down pat.

[spacetech]

Apaches can snipe a Tunguska its a simulator and things happen. Maybe the Tunguska was under pressure or the apache was a tier 3 veteran. There a plenty scenarios which make things like that possible.

[IKiINIgTv]

Originally posted by ScreamingEmu:

Gotta do something about this. The fact that the most viable tactic for taking out IR AA positions is to use your helicopters is dumb as hell.

MANPAD's can't hit at close range which makes maps like Geisa way too easy for helicopters. And the amount of helicopters to AA, and the god awful accuracy of AA against helicopters is just broke as hell right now.

As 3 VDV I find the best tactic for taking out AA positions is to just swarm my MI-8 troop transports.

Apaches can snipe Tunguskas with Hellfires.

It's confusing as to why this is so hard to get right when I felt like the WARGAME series had the IR/RADAR/JETS/HELICOPTER meta so down pat.

Maybe play more AA than 1 and if the Apache stuns your AA it's clear it won't destroy the Apache.

A little tip: Don't play Geisa, the map sucks.

[HardStrike]

the meta right now is Helo swarm for redfor, no amount of AA is going to stop it because they all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ miss, they all takes a while to reload, AAA starts firing when targets are way too close.

Ive seen 5 manpad teams completely miss a single mi24, and they all got killed by the 10 or so following helicopters behind it.

Air is busted in this game and youll notice that the red side has an assured victory everytime they do a helo rush because bluefor AA is utter garbage, it needs a few balancing fixes.

[Switchinzski]

Originally posted by spacetech:

Apaches can snipe a Tunguska its a simulator and things happen. Maybe the Tunguska was under pressure or the apache was a tier 3 veteran. There a plenty scenarios which make things like that possible.

How come this is not the case for the counterpart ? (KA-50)

[ScreamingEmu]

Originally posted by Switchinzski:

Originally posted by spacetech:

Apaches can snipe a Tunguska its a simulator and things happen. Maybe the Tunguska was under pressure or the apache was a tier 3 veteran. There a plenty scenarios which make things like that possible.

How come this is not the case for the counterpart ? (KA-50)

Ask Eugen. The REDFOR meta is just by having so many helos that they overwhelm AAA.

I think it boils down more to AAA Accuracy and damage. And it's weird because IR AAA seems to be able to hit jets better than helicopters. I almost feel like it's something in how ECM works for helos.

Now you might be able to counter this with Gun AAA, but gun AAA is piss weak unless it's a Gepard or one of those FL-Whatever flak rigs that the East Germans have at the moment.

I think ECM for helicopters should work like smoke for Tanks, something finite that needs to reload, since in this case ECM is actually just flares. But they should just automatically deploy because of the speed of IR missiles.

But something is just wonky with how IR Missiles track helos in this. Not to mention that when you do score a hit, you need to make 2 or 3 depending on the helo.

Also, in Wargame, flying a helo directly above infantry was almost a death sentence because small arms would chew them up. In this small arms do virtually nothing to helos, which is hilarious in my opinion.

I guess at the end of the day, seeing an IGLA team whiff 3 times in a row at a helo hovering 100 yards away and then getting slaughtered by rockets, when a moment before you saw them ace a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ F-111 tear assing past their location, is just mind bogglingly dumb.

[ScreamingEmu]

Originally posted by HardStrike:

the meta right now is Helo swarm for redfor, no amount of AA is going to stop it because they all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ miss, they all takes a while to reload, AAA starts firing when targets are way too close.

Ive seen 5 manpad teams completely miss a single mi24, and they all got killed by the 10 or so following helicopters behind it.

Air is busted in this game and youll notice that the red side has an assured victory everytime they do a helo rush because bluefor AA is utter garbage, it needs a few balancing fixes.

I agree with some of this, but the mass helo swarm works for both factions. I know this, because I have done it successfully on both sides.

The thing is, the Russians get more helos with ECM because of the MI-8 troop transport variant that has ECM (But for some reason costs the same as the other variant that doesnt?)

So while your helo slots are equal between Red and Blue, the Russians can hypothetically get an additional 18 or so helos with rockets and ECM as troop haulers, that cost about the same as their non-troop hauling variants, but are actually better because they have ECM.

There are times where I will literally call in the MI-8 troop haulers, drop off infantry somewhere behind the lines as an afterthought, just to get the cheaper, better version of the MI-8 to add to the horde.

I USE the helo meta a lot. And I am saying, it's broke AF.

[Switchinzski]

Originally posted by ScreamingEmu:

Originally posted by HardStrike:

the meta right now is Helo swarm for redfor, no amount of AA is going to stop it because they all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ miss, they all takes a while to reload, AAA starts firing when targets are way too close.

Ive seen 5 manpad teams completely miss a single mi24, and they all got killed by the 10 or so following helicopters behind it.

Air is busted in this game and youll notice that the red side has an assured victory everytime they do a helo rush because bluefor AA is utter garbage, it needs a few balancing fixes.

I agree with some of this, but the mass helo swarm works for both factions. I know this, because I have done it successfully on both sides.

The thing is, the Russians get more helos with ECM because of the MI-8 troop transport variant that has ECM (But for some reason costs the same as the other variant that doesnt?)

So while your helo slots are equal between Red and Blue, the Russians can hypothetically get an additional 18 or so helos with rockets and ECM as troop haulers, that cost about the same as their non-troop hauling variants, but are actually better because they have ECM.

There are times where I will literally call in the MI-8 troop haulers, drop off infantry somewhere behind the lines as an afterthought, just to get the cheaper, better version of the MI-8 to add to the horde.

I USE the helo meta a lot. And I am saying, it's broke AF.

Lol u make me sick

[IKiINIgTv]

Originally posted by HardStrike:

the meta right now is Helo swarm for redfor, no amount of AA is going to stop it because they all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ miss, they all takes a while to reload, AAA starts firing when targets are way too close.

Ive seen 5 manpad teams completely miss a single mi24, and they all got killed by the 10 or so following helicopters behind it.

Air is busted in this game and youll notice that the red side has an assured victory everytime they do a helo rush because bluefor AA is utter garbage, it needs a few balancing fixes.

Don't know what you mean my cheetah 1A1 and Roland 3 bring down one heli/jet after the other had destroyed 8 jets and 7 helis last time.

[IKiINIgTv]

Originally posted by ScreamingEmu:

Originally posted by Switchinzski:

How come this is not the case for the counterpart ? (KA-50)

Ask Eugen. The REDFOR meta is just by having so many helos that they overwhelm AAA.

I think it boils down more to AAA Accuracy and damage. And it's weird because IR AAA seems to be able to hit jets better than helicopters. I almost feel like it's something in how ECM works for helos.

Now you might be able to counter this with Gun AAA, but gun AAA is piss weak unless it's a Gepard or one of those FL-Whatever flak rigs that the East Germans have at the moment.

I think ECM for helicopters should work like smoke for Tanks, something finite that needs to reload, since in this case ECM is actually just flares. But they should just automatically deploy because of the speed of IR missiles.

But something is just wonky with how IR Missiles track helos in this. Not to mention that when you do score a hit, you need to make 2 or 3 depending on the helo.

Also, in Wargame, flying a helo directly above infantry was almost a death sentence because small arms would chew them up. In this small arms do virtually nothing to helos, which is hilarious in my opinion.

I guess at the end of the day, seeing an IGLA team whiff 3 times in a row at a helo hovering 100 yards away and then getting slaughtered by rockets, when a moment before you saw them ace a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ F-111 tear assing past their location, is just mind bogglingly dumb.

It's still possible I'm currently very rarely playing the Fliegerfaust troop of the Germans 2x (12 rockets) and 0 hits.

You can tell right away that it's not a German AA thrower!

[BlackFoxSamaki]

AA missiles have been broken ever since the game released. Just more proof that Eugen has no clue what they're doing.

[ScreamingEmu]

Originally posted by Switchinzski:

Originally posted by ScreamingEmu:

I agree with some of this, but the mass helo swarm works for both factions. I know this, because I have done it successfully on both sides.

The thing is, the Russians get more helos with ECM because of the MI-8 troop transport variant that has ECM (But for some reason costs the same as the other variant that doesnt?)

So while your helo slots are equal between Red and Blue, the Russians can hypothetically get an additional 18 or so helos with rockets and ECM as troop haulers, that cost about the same as their non-troop hauling variants, but are actually better because they have ECM.

There are times where I will literally call in the MI-8 troop haulers, drop off infantry somewhere behind the lines as an afterthought, just to get the cheaper, better version of the MI-8 to add to the horde.

I USE the helo meta a lot. And I am saying, it's broke AF.

Lol u make me sick

Oh yeah it's a ♥♥♥♥♥ move to do I am aware lol. But it works so well. I try not to do it every game unless I am really pissed off.

[GAINSB]

They should just increase tremendously the routing of helos, irl helo pilots nope the f out of the line of contact if they get any indication that they are locked by AA.

While in game chad helo pilot does not care about missile coming one inch from cockpit, chad pilot does not fear capitalists, he faces stinger like proud rodina hero

[Foddster]

Never normally one to comment on game status as it is early access and forever changing. But how this passed through the testing team is unbelievable. I was in a 10v10 with my own tracked strela an igla team and a team mates tunguska with spaag disabled so just firing missiles. 2-3 missles each, one hit from the strela, apache destroys strela and bugs out. Next they came back with two apaches and 2 cobras and wiped the whole teams defensive line because nothing could hit them. Seen this on many occasions but this was one that you just couldn't believe. Happy to provide game recording to any devs/discord chat that uses this evidence to change future patches.

[PapaSloppy]

Originally posted by HardStrike:

the meta right now is Helo swarm for redfor, no amount of AA is going to stop it because they all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ miss, they all takes a while to reload, AAA starts firing when targets are way too close.

Ive seen 5 manpad teams completely miss a single mi24

i love setting there and counting every miss until my aa is totally out of rockets in 3 seconds gotta laugh every time

[Radegast]

I check the forum if the game is worth start playing and always leave dissapointed with unballanced status of the game.

So much fun with Europe escalation and later Airland battles.

The best way how to deal with helicopter were some light fightets like L39, or Kiowa with stingers...