Infantry in woods

[Pizzamovies]

Okay, someone explain to me why infantry absolutely suck in ambush positions.

Just had a game where 2 M1A1 Abrams were able to just bulldoze their way through all my veteran motorstrelkie in a forest. Not on the edge, i mean DEEP. i couldn't flank to get side shots as the infantry are instantly suppressed and pinned, the BMP 2s couldn't fire their missiles fast enough, the infantry wouldn't fire their RPG-7s or Metis. Also feels like tanks have better vision in woods than the infantry as they were able to spot me, making sure i was unable to flank or ambush them. I lost 8 squads to 2 tanks in this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I would expect infantry to at least be able to hold ground, in close quarters combat against armor in the WOODS. Come on. Do tanks not have any penalties in woods? Why are they not punished for moving through thick forest? I'm absolutely baffled at the absurdity of this.

How is this fair? The one time i expect Infantry to have the advantage or at least a level playing field and they still get slaughtered.

[Vyllis]

Yes, tanks are strong in forest. If you watch some WARNO tournaments you can see tanks used in forest too. Bring your own tanks hordes with your infantry or mass helos to clear forest.

[DasaKamov]

You're asking "why are a group of some of the most powerful and expensive units in the game able to survive being attacked by basic and cheap infantry units" - in essence, answering your own questions.

To your other points, the Metis can't fire because it's a long-range weapon with a minimum range threshold. BMP-2s are anti-infantry IFVs and should never be expected to be tank-killers.

Originally posted by Pizzamovies:

I lost 8 squads to 2 tanks in this

I very much doubt this; unless your 8 squads were all literally standing on top of each others' heads, there's very little chance not a single one of them was able to move around to the sides or rear of one of the M1A1s. Even when firing at an M1A1's frontal armor (which is the WORST place to shoot a tank), the RPG-7 will cause at least 1 point of damage.

Regardless, even if you did actually, literally lose "8 Moto squads to 2 M1A1s", you're basically saying: "320 points worth of my units were destroyed by 480 points of the enemy's units", which sounds like it makes total sense.

[Sokol]

Metis and Dragon launchers needed a minimum range to fire, which means they are not good for CQB. Though I wish the game stated what the minimum range was. But they definitely need to be a distance away

But to the main point, yes tanks and vehicles have pretty good optics in woods, which they shouldn't have. Just like being in a city is suicide for tanks, it should be the same for in the woods

[mndbsd]

Because basic inf have mediocre at weapons. Use dedicated tank hunters, like Otdelenie Poderzhiki, Spetsnaz OP, Panzejagers, they have much better weapons, better accuracy, and they are there for a reason.

Mainline inf has enough AT capability to deal with IFV and transports, not heavy tanks.

Send some flamers + 2 panzerjagers in a forest and u will mow everything down.

Also if you play pact use the Plamya and thank me later.

Edit: Overall i agree that mass heavy tonks in forests are hard to counter.

[mndbsd]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

You're asking "why are a group of some of the most powerful and expensive units in the game able to survive being attacked by basic and cheap infantry units" - in essence, answering your own questions.

To your other points, the Metis can't fire because it's a long-range weapon with a minimum range threshold. BMP-2s are anti-infantry IFVs and should never be expected to be tank-killers.

Originally posted by Pizzamovies:

I lost 8 squads to 2 tanks in this

I very much doubt this; unless your 8 squads were all literally standing on top of each others' heads, there's very little chance not a single one of them was able to move around to the sides or rear of one of the M1A1s. Even when firing at an M1A1's frontal armor (which is the WORST place to shoot a tank), the RPG-7 will cause at least 1 point of damage.

Regardless, even if you did actually, literally lose "8 Moto squads to 2 M1A1s", you're basically saying: "320 points worth of my units were destroyed by 480 points of the enemy's units", which sounds like it makes total sense.

OP is right is a way. Heavy tanks in forests are op.

And the argument "400 points should beat 250 points" is sketchy at best.
If a unit has ANTI in its name it should counter the thing that its ANTI at, even if its cheaper.

Also your argument doesn't hold water at all. 3 Iglas are more expensive than an Apache, yet i don't remember my 3 iglas killing an Apache. And they are ANTI air. Maybe Apaches are submarines idk.

This is how well antitank inf does against tanks in forests:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939176328

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2939176319

Whole game i deployed a grand total of 1 inf squad which i didnt even use.
Only brain shutdown and attack move abrams trough forest.
I lost a grand total of 3 and had 11 left. I wiped everything in that forest.

And it gets even better when you use UD's and run into AT-4. Creme de la creme gameplay.

Imagine if Eugen did ANTIbiotics, we would be wiped out as a species in 3 weeks. rolfmao

[ccc]

yeah lets nerf the game and have massive balance issues because some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cried in the forums.

[pilotix]

No, cry and say in SD2 its better ...

[Name]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

You're asking "why are a group of some of the most powerful and expensive units in the game able to survive being attacked by basic and cheap infantry units" - in essence, answering your own questions.

To your other points, the Metis can't fire because it's a long-range weapon with a minimum range threshold. BMP-2s are anti-infantry IFVs and should never be expected to be tank-killers.

Originally posted by Pizzamovies:

I lost 8 squads to 2 tanks in this

I very much doubt this; unless your 8 squads were all literally standing on top of each others' heads, there's very little chance not a single one of them was able to move around to the sides or rear of one of the M1A1s. Even when firing at an M1A1's frontal armor (which is the WORST place to shoot a tank), the RPG-7 will cause at least 1 point of damage.

Regardless, even if you did actually, literally lose "8 Moto squads to 2 M1A1s", you're basically saying: "320 points worth of my units were destroyed by 480 points of the enemy's units", which sounds like it makes total sense.

I agree with your post - also there is missing information here. We don't exactly know how many rpg-7 moto squads he had to metis, metis have a minimum firing range of 353 meters which i'm assuming was not met - and even if met still have an aim and missile travel time which that m1a1 would have blasted him with machine gun rounds or cannon.

OP should have had at least 3-4 moto squads with rpg-7, or better yet panzerjager squads to deal with such. He could have also flanked the m1a1 from the side or rear armor. Such posts are what we call a skill issue and can only be remedied with more practice in the game.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by mndbsd:

If a unit has ANTI in its name it should counter the thing that its ANTI at, even if its cheaper.

Er, what part of "Motostrelki" translates to "anti" anything"?

[FREEZED]

tanks are not any overpower in forests, just make sure you have good enough rpg example AT-4 or Apilas for your infatry and make sure you have those on 3 directions from tank so one can always side shot.

[mndbsd]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Originally posted by mndbsd:

If a unit has ANTI in its name it should counter the thing that its ANTI at, even if its cheaper.

Er, what part of "Motostrelki" translates to "anti" anything"?

Er, maybe read the entire post and not cherry pick 1 line out of context.

I even posted pictures. You can clearly see that even dedicated ANTI tank units stand no chance in forest against heavy tonks. It's a fact, not cry, not whine, not calling for buff/nerf.

Even O.P. or PzJag do a whoping 2 dmg to an HA, while the HA insta stuns them and wipes before they can take a second shot.
I drove the bradley up to 2 O.P. and wiped them before they could even aim. The first shot insta stunned them.

Also to respond to your question fully, Motostrelki has a 20 pen AT gun, same as Pzjag (yes i know they have 2, dont cherry pick that also), and only 1 pen less than the O.P.. Same accuracy aswell. So for all intents and purposes you could say that it's and AT crew, even better since it has more man than O.P.

1500 points in tanks vs 1500 points in inf (whatever asortment you like)
The tanks will wipe the floor with the inf in forest 10 out of 10 times.

I have replays galore to prove it. Ask ye shall receive.

And again, im not crying, just stating the obvious, and agreeing with OP.

[Name]

Originally posted by mndbsd:

I have replays galore to prove it. Ask ye shall receive.

.

Please post the replay clip. Scoreboard screenshots do not simply provide enough context here to agree or disagree with your opinion.

[ccc]

the spetnatz just make every unit fall back, they took on 1 airborne rank 3, LRS rank 3, 12.7HMG, Scout unit, then a rank 2 airborne gunners, rank 3 airborne who came in last second. While routing 2 AA units...

managed to kill 1 unit and the other runs away at full speed with 1 guy left...

Mean while a previous game I had SAS unit hiding in the forest, two ♥♥♥♥♥♥ level 1 recon units took it out very quickly. Stunned one once, then it was over...

You only get 4 SAS units and they are ♥♥♥♥ now... How come when I started playing they were pretty strong.

Why is this game some meta ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?

[ccc]

Also why can't elite units like SAS use their rocket launcher against infantry and have grenades?

[Hamburger89]

I have to say that I also disagree on how strong tanks are in the woods. Of course you cannot use metis, and you should rather use OP Speznas + Motostrelki etc.

However, in my opinion this was done better in Wargame. Without infantry support any tank was dead in the woods. I liked that better.