Realistic recon unit and awareness

[anders_klovstad1]

About realistic 

Thanks a lot for your efforts in developing the game and making it more realistic.

One thing that irritates me is the recon feature of "immediate awareness" for all units of what a recon unit observes, (or any other unit observes).

Then, instantly, everything that is within line of sight will start shooting, just as accurat as if they had actually seen it themselves...

Thinking through logic and my own infantry experience:

You need to relay your observation to a communication network/comand – which then relays it to the other units. Even then, you are not relaying exactly what you see in real time, but rather information such as "enemy troops are in the forestline from 500 m to NW", and so on. Then you will try to observe and act according to the information – but you might not see it anyway.

So, how to implement something similarish?

1. Radio trait – units With and without own radio

2. Delay – say 5 seconds to an unit with «radio trait» and 10 secunds to other units – to relay the observation

3.«Enhancing Optics»: when an observation is relaid to a unit, it will get a +1 in optics for the observed unit. Then it Depends on the enhanced optics and the camuflage of the enemy if you actually see it… You can move closer or not.

4. You might reduce delay if you are close to a comand unit (or compensating the lack of «radio trait»), improving the value of comand close to the frontline.

5. Option: Indirect fire – if a unit doesn't really see the observed enemy unit, you can reduce the accuracy of the fire – and let them shoot away in the general direction anyway, with the stress and suppression that follow – but less lethal result. 

6 Option: An even more step towards «realistic»; give the same delay on Your orders for units.

I believe something in that line would add quite some realism in the game – not to mention the peril of a player seeing his units marching towards an ambush, hoping the order to reach them in time and the unit to turn away.

I hope something like what I describe could be implemented into the game – I believe it would be an improvement.

Br

[soldier6661111]

Would be cool. Armored Brigade has a function like that for orders. It takes time for orders to be carried out/delivered so planning ahead, stringing orders together and having proper SOP is key. And I believe HQ units there provided bonuses for it (so micromanaging individual vehicles wasn't as effective as managing a company or whatever scale).

I would not expect anything like that here.

[MticiansRed]

This is not game about such depth. You should check out Armored Brigade if you looking for realism.

[molnibalage]

Originally posted by Heat Contact:

This is not game about such depth. You should check out Armored Brigade if you looking for realism.

But the post is right. The immediate response is very irritating.

[MticiansRed]

Originally posted by molnibalage:

Originally posted by Heat Contact:

This is not game about such depth. You should check out Armored Brigade if you looking for realism.

But the post is right. The immediate response is very irritating.

With current game pace and core mechanics what OP suggest will make game a micro hell even more than it is now. Mentioned Armbrig has less pace (realitstic units speed) and it is pure single so tac pause and speed modifiers, thus playable.

[Fizz]

I agree with your main argument. To put it simple into the game there could be a solution like something of a "gray status" after spotting. You know (as a player) there is an enemy (shown gray not red or blue) but your units can only attack it in this status when they are able to spot them on their own. After 2 or 3 seconds, when fully revealed, the target can be attacked by any unit. Just some loud thinking here.

This could be even expanded: when loosing line of sight of your recon, the unit does not instantly disappear but turns into grey mode for 2-3 seconds. Any initiated attack by units or when planes are in right away on their attack run they still execute their initiated attack.

It's silly that when tanks, atgms or planes have that target in sight and are a blink of an eye away from shooting, their target disappears because the recon is dead or not in line of sight...

2 birds with one stone

[Catiline]

Originally posted by Fizz:

I agree with your main argument. To put it simple into the game there could be a solution like something of a "gray status" after spotting. You know (as a player) there is an enemy (shown gray not red or blue) but your units can only attack it in this status when they are able to spot them on their own. After 2 or 3 seconds, when fully revealed, the target can be attacked by any unit. Just some loud thinking here.

This could be even expanded: when loosing line of sight of your recon, the unit does not instantly disappear but turns into grey mode for 2-3 seconds. Any initiated attack by units or when planes are in right away on their attack run they still execute their initiated attack.

It's silly that when tanks, atgms or planes have that target in sight and are a blink of an eye away from shooting, their target disappears because the recon is dead or not in line of sight...

2 birds with one stone

I like this

[molnibalage]

Originally posted by Heat Contact:

Originally posted by molnibalage:

But the post is right. The immediate response is very irritating.

With current game pace and core mechanics what OP suggest will make game a micro hell even more than it is now. Mentioned Armbrig has less pace (realitstic units speed) and it is pure single so tac pause and speed modifiers, thus playable.

WUT....?
It would be totally automatic...
The game engine knows the optical range and spot.
Simply a "who spot that" check is needed.
If for a unit a newly spotted unit falls into the "I did not spot first" for X sec aim is forbidden for the unit AI.

This is so simple mathematically. It requires ZERO micro.
Also the turret rotation speeds should be lowered.

https://youtu.be/OiOBGKOETIM?t=70
I hate in WG what you can see here. Instant aim point change and this also happens when something is spotted by a recon. Every turret with ZERO time delay is on the new target.

The video has 0.5x playback speed...

[Gensai Kawagami]

Totally agree with that. It's one of the main reason combat is so over the top lethal.
As someone said above it's not so difficult, it's just that units should have something like 3 states. One that you can see that something is there but you can't hit it, one that you can hit but with reduced accuracy and a full spotted state where you hit with no penalty from spotting ( all other penalties of course apply in all states )

[BuddhaBlue]

Yeah, I think this is an interesting idea.

[Fizz]

Originally posted by Fizz:

I agree with your main argument. To put it simple into the game there could be a solution like something of a "gray status" after spotting. You know (as a player) there is an enemy (shown gray not red or blue) but your units can only attack it in this status when they are able to spot them on their own. After 2 or 3 seconds, when fully revealed, the target can be attacked by any unit. Just some loud thinking here.

This could be even expanded: when loosing line of sight of your recon, the unit does not instantly disappear but turns into grey mode for 2-3 seconds. Any initiated attack by units or when planes are in right away on their attack run they still execute their initiated attack.

It's silly that when tanks, atgms or planes have that target in sight and are a blink of an eye away from shooting, their target disappears because the recon is dead or not in line of sight...

2 birds with one stone

@Eugen: Do you consider constructive feedback by your community? I would love to see that suggestion or something similar. We don't know IF you are even reading suggestions like that or not, do you?

[Leo3ABP]

While some details suggested by the OP might be outside the scope of this game, what could be implemented without overhauling the entire game is adding a significant aiming malus for shooting at enemy units that are not spotted by the shooter itself. For example unit that is shooting at an enemy that it cant see but spotted by another unit, recieves -80% to its accuracy.

If both the spotter and and the unit have radios, the malus is reduced to -40%. Additionally, units with radio can provide radio bonus to units without radio in short radius (100-200m at WARNO scale).

I think something like this is doable and would improve the gameplay and make it more important to position units in a way where they can also utilise their own sight rather than always rely on recon. It should also reduce the situations where a unit gets vaporised by multiple enemies the second it is spotted.

Note that numbers in examples are arbitrary, however I strongly believe that in all cases numbers need to be significant enough in order to have a game mechanic feel impactful.