Heavy Howitzer Artillery needs serious rework

[Sil.^Fisk]

The Arty spam is beyond control as of late.
However, the biggest issue has to do with the Heavy howitzer Arty pieces.

A: Unbalanced availability, The M110A2G is available for 3 German divisions and 1 US
Division. The 2nd British have a similar Heavy howitzer, M107A2.
The Malka is available to 1 PACT division.

The fact that PACT only has the Malka for one very unpopular
division basically guarantees it is extremely rare to see one, therefore granting NATO the
advantage.

Solution: Have Malka Available to more PACT Divisions.

B: Instant killing power, The Heavy Howitzers kill almost instantly, there is no opportunity to
move out of the way.

Furthermore counterbattery can sometimes be very difficult, given that the heavy
Howitzers far outrange the medium Howitzers. I have often tried to counter barrage the
heavy howitzers but lacked the range on the Akatsiya.

Solution: Reduce the insane suppression and or the damage output of the heavy howitzers.

[BlackFoxSamaki]

All of the artillery is insanely overpowered at the moment, which is very annoying since WARNO has had this problem before but Eugen keeps bringing it back.

Eugen said their goal with this patch was to increase the overall time to kill of units in order to focus the game more on suppression, but then they made artillery incredibly lethal. Shouldn’t they have made artillery more of a tool for suppressing the enemy? This means that Eugen either lied about their design intentions or they somehow wound up doing the exact opposite of what they wanted. Either way, not looking good for the future of WARNO.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

All of the artillery is insanely overpowered at the moment

There have been zero changes to artillery in this most recent patch.

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

All of the artillery is insanely overpowered at the moment

There have been zero changes to artillery in this most recent patch.

It is very common for Eugen to forget to list changes they made in their patch notes. So much of Eugen's games info in general only becomes known to the community when people dig into the files and share their findings with everyone else. Changes on other parts of the game can also have an effect in how unchanged things perform against things that were altered.

The game has devolved into every match being focused on artillery. Either you kill the opponents artillery or you use your artillery more effectively than they do. Last patch was not like this, so something changed.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

It is very common for Eugen to forget to list changes they made in their patch notes.

False.

[Enemy Dave]

Originally posted by Sil.^Fisk:

The Arty spam is beyond control as of late.
However, the biggest issue has to do with the Heavy howitzer Arty pieces.

A: Unbalanced availability, The M110A2G is available for 3 German divisions and 1 US
Division. The 2nd British have a similar Heavy howitzer, M107A2.
The Malka is available to 1 PACT division.

The fact that PACT only has the Malka for one very unpopular
division basically guarantees it is extremely rare to see one, therefore granting NATO the
advantage.

Solution: Have Malka Available to more PACT Divisions.

B: Instant killing power, The Heavy Howitzers kill almost instantly, there is no opportunity to
move out of the way.

Furthermore counterbattery can sometimes be very difficult, given that the heavy
Howitzers far outrange the medium Howitzers. I have often tried to counter barrage the
heavy howitzers but lacked the range on the Akatsiya.

Solution: Reduce the insane suppression and or the damage output of the heavy howitzers.

I love how your solution to arty spam is to make more arty available.

[Bier und Brezel Spiel]

Yeah right now artillery is VERY VERY strong again. I was a little bit shocked when i saw my units melt with 2 hits. Yeah this is realistic. The problem is, arty spam will become the meta again. Because right now nothing kills you as fast as artillery.

Especially the infantery dies with one hit. They are not even surpressed, they are simply dead. Even in cover like houses. Boom one or two rounds and dead.

I tried to play an infantery heavy division and the artillery simply blew me appart. Even in cover i lost my division so fast it was not worth it to play infantery divison. Armored divison is the way to play right now again.

I know the artillery is very hard to balance. I understand this. But right now i think the arty is a little bit over the top again.

But there is a praise i have to give out. Thank you for giving us the vehicles for towed artillery to move them away from counter artillery fire. This makes this type of artillery way more valuable.

For the rest of the game, thank you Eugen for the combat rework. I really like it so far. Especially the CV capture point rework.

[thugnightly]

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

All of the artillery is insanely overpowered at the moment, which is very annoying since WARNO has had this problem before but Eugen keeps bringing it back.

Eugen said their goal with this patch was to increase the overall time to kill of units in order to focus the game more on suppression, but then they made artillery incredibly lethal. Shouldn’t they have made artillery more of a tool for suppressing the enemy? This means that Eugen either lied about their design intentions or they somehow wound up doing the exact opposite of what they wanted. Either way, not looking good for the future of WARNO.

A couple months ago you were whining about arty being useless. Pick a side or stop complaining.

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Originally posted by The Chaplain:

Yeah right now artillery is VERY VERY strong again. I was a little bit shocked when i saw my units melt with 2 hits. Yeah this is realistic. The problem is, arty spam will become the meta again. Because right now nothing kills you as fast as artillery.

Personally I don't know why they didn't make arty do little actual damage but lots of suppression since they claim that's what they wanted this update to focus on.

For people that like artillery being lethal because they feel it's realistic that's fine, but then units should be able to build trenches and field fortifications to protect themselves. They figured this out even before WW1, digging a hole is a very good way to protect yourself from shrapnel and shock-waves. I really don't think troops would be just sitting around twiddling their thumbs when they know enemy artillery is extremely active in their area.

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Originally posted by thugnightly:

Originally posted by BlackFoxSamaki:

All of the artillery is insanely overpowered at the moment, which is very annoying since WARNO has had this problem before but Eugen keeps bringing it back.

Eugen said their goal with this patch was to increase the overall time to kill of units in order to focus the game more on suppression, but then they made artillery incredibly lethal. Shouldn’t they have made artillery more of a tool for suppressing the enemy? This means that Eugen either lied about their design intentions or they somehow wound up doing the exact opposite of what they wanted. Either way, not looking good for the future of WARNO.

A couple months ago you were whining about arty being useless. Pick a side or stop complaining.

Source? I'm legitimately curious if I ever said arty was useless or underpowered because I do not think I have ever claimed that, especially concerning WARNO.

[mndbsd]

Originally posted by The Chaplain:

Armored divison is the way to play right now again.

I know the artillery is very hard to balance. I understand this. But right now i think the arty is a little bit over the top again.

I would disagree.
Play tank decks -
deploy cheap tanks - get 1 shot by atgms.
deploy heavy tanks - get 1 shot by unavoidable cluster.

On arty being hard to balance:
my idee - remove the option for arty to target on its own and make it so only specific units can call down arty, like scouts for example. Also add more options for barrages, for example light barrage, heavy barrage, high intesity, low intensity, medium duration, long duration.
Also add the zeroing in ability, which cause the first few shot to be inaccurate and be used as guidance.

A heavy barrage of high intensity and long duration would absolutely destroy an entrenched possition, but consume ALOT of ammo and having longer fire times means its prone to counter barrage.
A light barrage of low or medium intensity could be useful for supresion, while dealing less dmg, it consumes less ammo, and is less prone to counter barrages.
etc etc.

There are elegant solutions to this problem.


Also arty spread should be higher, while retaining the dmg/shot if it hits or near misses.

Right now arty feels like firing HIMARS shells with every salvo.

[Sil.^Fisk]

Originally posted by Enemy Dave:

Originally posted by Sil.^Fisk:

The Arty spam is beyond control as of late.
However, the biggest issue has to do with the Heavy howitzer Arty pieces.

A: Unbalanced availability, The M110A2G is available for 3 German divisions and 1 US
Division. The 2nd British have a similar Heavy howitzer, M107A2.
The Malka is available to 1 PACT division.

The fact that PACT only has the Malka for one very unpopular
division basically guarantees it is extremely rare to see one, therefore granting NATO the
advantage.

Solution: Have Malka Available to more PACT Divisions.

B: Instant killing power, The Heavy Howitzers kill almost instantly, there is no opportunity to
move out of the way.

Furthermore counterbattery can sometimes be very difficult, given that the heavy
Howitzers far outrange the medium Howitzers. I have often tried to counter barrage the
heavy howitzers but lacked the range on the Akatsiya.

Solution: Reduce the insane suppression and or the damage output of the heavy howitzers.

I love how your solution to arty spam is to make more arty available.

I suggest we have more Heavy Howitzers available to PACT. The Malka on more divisions would be nice for the sake of balance...

[Aegmar]

I don't play WARNO that much, or at least didn't for quite some time now, but i remember Artillery being pretty weak and mostly just stunning/damaging Infantry in the past.

Then ppl complained Artillery was weak and useless, now they changed Artillery into being more lethal against infantry and ppl are complaining Artillery is too strong.

Maybe the solution would be to have some mechanics for Infantry of "digging in". Afaik sop in the cold war would be that infantry that isn't on the move would immediately start digging narrow foxholes for each individiual soldier to not die immediately to artillery.

Maybe just keep Artillery as it is (except slowing ROF or longer reload times) and make it so Infantry automatically digs in when stationary and becomes more resistant to Mortars and Arty, so they are mostly stunned/surpressed under Arty fire but no longer die almost instantly.

Of course when moving around 155 or 152mm Artillery shells going down nearby should kill Infantry, that would also incentivise the use of APC's as transport more.

[deserted_goat]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

I don't play WARNO that much, or at least didn't for quite some time now, but i remember Artillery being pretty weak and mostly just stunning/damaging Infantry in the past.

Then ppl complained Artillery was weak and useless, now they changed Artillery into being more lethal against infantry and ppl are complaining Artillery is too strong.

Maybe the solution would be to have some mechanics for Infantry of "digging in". Afaik sop in the cold war would be that infantry that isn't on the move would immediately start digging narrow foxholes for each individiual soldier to not die immediately to artillery.

Maybe just keep Artillery as it is (except slowing ROF or longer reload times) and make it so Infantry automatically digs in when stationary and becomes more resistant to Mortars and Arty, so they are mostly stunned/surpressed under Arty fire but no longer die almost instantly.

Of course when moving around 155 or 152mm Artillery shells going down nearby should kill Infantry, that would also incentivise the use of APC's as transport more.

buddy kept trying to get them to do that during RD lifespan lol, trench warfare? never happens

[Aegmar]

Originally posted by deserted_goat:

Originally posted by Aegmar:

I don't play WARNO that much, or at least didn't for quite some time now, but i remember Artillery being pretty weak and mostly just stunning/damaging Infantry in the past.

Then ppl complained Artillery was weak and useless, now they changed Artillery into being more lethal against infantry and ppl are complaining Artillery is too strong.

Maybe the solution would be to have some mechanics for Infantry of "digging in". Afaik sop in the cold war would be that infantry that isn't on the move would immediately start digging narrow foxholes for each individiual soldier to not die immediately to artillery.

Maybe just keep Artillery as it is (except slowing ROF or longer reload times) and make it so Infantry automatically digs in when stationary and becomes more resistant to Mortars and Arty, so they are mostly stunned/surpressed under Arty fire but no longer die almost instantly.

Of course when moving around 155 or 152mm Artillery shells going down nearby should kill Infantry, that would also incentivise the use of APC's as transport more.

buddy kept trying to get them to do that during RD lifespan lol, trench warfare? never happens

Not really trench warfare, with any type of trench systems. Just a defensive modifier for Infantry units that stayed in the same place for a couple minutes, representing the digging of individual soldier foxholes.

Visual representation optional, maybe some brown flecks around the models or sth. Probably not that hard to do.

After all on a modern battlefield you don't just stand around with your hands in your pockets when you might come under artillery fire, you dig yourself a hole as fast as you can.

[Teemo main]

Arty is powerfull in every war