This game has just given my absolute most disappointing moment, don't buy this

[Sokol]

Leopard 1 and m48 vs TWO T-80s, beats the T-80s.

Are you kidding me??????????

please if you are looking at this game, dont buy it

I used to try to defend some of these things, but this is absolutely insane that this is even possible in this game
This would NEVER happen in wargame, unless the T-80s were giving their back armor to the enemy

[asaphx]

What was the range? Are you sure your tanks weren't showing their sides or backs to the enemy? Maybe you can show us a video or screenshot of what happened.

[Sokol]

Originally posted by asaphx:

What was the range? Are you sure your tanks weren't showing their sides or backs to the enemy? Maybe you can show us a video or screenshot of what happened.

Front to front armor, at very maximum range of engagement

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2838564128

I wish I had a way to record gameplay too, I'd show you how the bombers are completely useless now, kept dropping bombs ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about a KM off target from a stationary cluster of tanks

This is the worst update yet

[sadoeconomist]

It's an RNG based system so strange things happen sometimes, people post plenty of crazier kill lists in Wargame. There's nothing here that's not working how it's supposed to, as far as I can tell.

The T80B only has 14 front armor, it's far from invincible, it's got worse armor than a base model Abrams. Both those tanks can penetrate the T80B frontally at their max range, if just barely, assuming that's a 105mm M48. And that looks like it's well under max range. My guess: your T80s were probably using their low accuracy ATGMs instead of their guns and missed every shot while the blue tanks panicked them and pecked them to death. There might have been some other LOS issue making your ATGMs miss if their targets were moving through cover, too.

You can see in your screenshot that your tanks are both panicked but only one of the enemy tanks is. Even if they were using their guns, they probably had less than 50% accuracy because of morale at that point and you don't need that long a run of bad luck on your attack rolls to lose that fight from there if the Leopard is hitting for a few HP a shot.

[spaghetti671]

Originally posted by sadoeconomist:

It's an RNG based system so strange things happen sometimes, people post plenty of crazier kill lists in Wargame. There's nothing here that's not working how it's supposed to, as far as I can tell.

The T80B only has 14 front armor, it's far from invincible, it's got worse armor than a base model Abrams. Both those tanks can penetrate the T80B frontally at their max range, if just barely, assuming that's a 105mm M48. And that looks like it's well under max range. My guess: your T80s were probably using their low accuracy ATGMs instead of their guns and missed every shot while the blue tanks panicked them and pecked them to death. There might have been some other LOS issue making your ATGMs miss if their targets were moving through cover, too.

You can see in your screenshot that your tanks are both panicked but only one of the enemy tanks is. Even if they were using their guns, they probably had less than 50% accuracy because of morale at that point and you don't need that long a run of bad luck on your attack rolls to lose that fight from there if the Leopard is hitting for a few HP a shot.

the problem is that even at base you have less accuracy than the above tanks so even if you get the first shot youll still likely lose the first shot advantage and it all goes down hill from there

[Sokol]

Originally posted by sadoeconomist:

It's an RNG based system so strange things happen sometimes, people post plenty of crazier kill lists in Wargame. There's nothing here that's not working how it's supposed to, as far as I can tell.

The T80B only has 14 front armor, it's far from invincible, it's got worse armor than a base model Abrams. Both those tanks can penetrate the T80B frontally at their max range, if just barely, assuming that's a 105mm M48. And that looks like it's well under max range. My guess: your T80s were probably using their low accuracy ATGMs instead of their guns and missed every shot while the blue tanks panicked them and pecked them to death. There might have been some other LOS issue making your ATGMs miss if their targets were moving through cover, too.

You can see in your screenshot that your tanks are both panicked but only one of the enemy tanks is. Even if they were using their guns, they probably had less than 50% accuracy because of morale at that point and you don't need that long a run of bad luck on your attack rolls to lose that fight from there if the Leopard is hitting for a few HP a shot.

I made sure to not use the ATGMs actually, they're really bad. Even a max veterancy T-80U of mine missed a missile shot 3 times in a row with 70% accuracy.

All guns, missed almost all of the shots, while the german tanks hit much more often.

I mean idk, you would never see a base model T-55 killing a base M1 abrams, I've never done it myself, only with a higher model T-55 and using stealth/side shots, never in a front to front tank battle

RNG is random, I will say that, but the chances on here of this type of thing happening are very high compared to other eugen titles of the past, such as wargame or SD

[Solon]

If its a T-80B, most AT is gonna slip through that armor @1000m.
Russian tanks are not known for being invincible, then or now.
They have great punching power, but tend to be glass cannons if not up-armored.
T-80B is great at supporting infantry and in mass tanks attacks, little more.

[Sokol]

Originally posted by Nero:

What you experienced is AP 15 versus Front Armor 14. And then there is that:

Originally posted by Sokol:

All guns, missed almost all of the shots, while the german tanks hit much more often.

The same could happen in Wargame. In fact the Leo1A5 in RD has 16 AP so the difference is even bigger.

There's a big reason why T-80B costs only 75pts in RD. You shouldn't take it in WARNO.

We've only got so many options, haha

You know I don't remember and its not in the game anymore, was the T-64BV any better than the T-80B? I remember it being pretty deadly in wargame at least

[Cryptic]

Op, how many open threads do you honestly need on this forum? You are over 35 now. It's getting ridiculous dude. Over half of them are just you complaining. In several of them you have said that you are going to stop playing the game and that it's "unplayable" yet here you are still playing, so which is it?

Every time you have a bad game and you lose or something happens, the first thing you do is come to the forum and start telling people not to buy the game and insulting it and crying about non-existent bugs and complaining about things that are just your misunderstanding.... You have found one or two legitimate bugs but as I said before, it's hard to know with you specifically what is actually a problem and what is not because you cry wolf so much...

I have had a single t80 kill 3 Abrams in the past. Do you think I wasn't pissed? I was on the American side so believe me I was. But also the t80 was in cover in my Abrams were trying to advance in the open and my Abrams were also lower rank and they were ambushed by the t80. It happens sometimes.

You really don't need to come complaining every single time you play the game and something happens that you don't like.

[Sokol]

Originally posted by Nero:

Originally posted by Corrosion:

Op, how many open threads do you honestly need on this forum? You are over 35 now. It's getting ridiculous dude.

You really don't need to come complaining every single time you play the game and something happens that you don't like.

He can post this much and more. Just ignore him if you don't want to read his posts.

This game is early access, and I don't really play other games but this one lately. Lot of criticism, bugs to be addressed(still quite a lot from months and months ago), all that sort of thing very expected for a game in early access

[Sokol]

Originally posted by Corrosion:

Op, how many open threads do you honestly need on this forum? You are over 35 now. It's getting ridiculous dude. Over half of them are just you complaining. In several of them you have said that you are going to stop playing the game and that it's "unplayable" yet here you are still playing, so which is it?

Every time you have a bad game and you lose or something happens, the first thing you do is come to the forum and start telling people not to buy the game and insulting it and crying about non-existent bugs and complaining about things that are just your misunderstanding.... You have found one or two legitimate bugs but as I said before, it's hard to know with you specifically what is actually a problem and what is not because you cry wolf so much...

I have had a single t80 kill 3 Abrams in the past. Do you think I wasn't pissed? I was on the American side so believe me I was. But also the t80 was in cover in my Abrams were trying to advance in the open and my Abrams were also lower rank and they were ambushed by the t80. It happens sometimes.

You really don't need to come complaining every single time you play the game and something happens that you don't like.

A T80 vs some abrams can be done though, and they're not horribly technologically behind one another so its not so ridiculous, and as you said with stealth it was able to do this, and that is understandable. I've killed leopard 2s and abrams with T-55s and T-62s this way

a 1950s tank paired with a 1960s tank shouldn't be able to beat late 1980s tanks though, especially in a front to front wide-open tank shootout. If they were hiding, some side or rear shots, very explainable with the weak spots of armor.
But front to front? With the RNG making my tanks miss nearly all the shots(turned off ATGMs, guns only), and the other two tanks hitting basically every shot? Just outrageous honestly
If it were, for example, two M60s, or anything better than m48 and leopard 1a1, it would definitely be an acceptable thing

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by Nero:

Originally posted by Corrosion:

Op, how many open threads do you honestly need on this forum? You are over 35 now. It's getting ridiculous dude.

You really don't need to come complaining every single time you play the game and something happens that you don't like.

He can post this much and more. Just ignore him if you don't want to read his posts.

Yep. And we can ask why

[sadoeconomist]

Originally posted by Sokol:

a 1950s tank paired with a 1960s tank shouldn't be able to beat late 1980s tanks though, especially in a front to front wide-open tank shootout. If they were hiding, some side or rear shots, very explainable with the weak spots of armor.
But front to front? With the RNG making my tanks miss nearly all the shots(turned off ATGMs, guns only), and the other two tanks hitting basically every shot? Just outrageous honestly
If it were, for example, two M60s, or anything better than m48 and leopard 1a1, it would definitely be an acceptable thing

Not necessarily true at all. Those NATO tanks both have gone through modernization programs (the later model M48 in particular has a new bigger more modern gun) so they're not the same vehicles from when they were built, and the T-80B entered service in 1978 so it's really not that far ahead of them. And we know it wasn't upgraded since then because then it'd be a T-80BV. The most revolutionary thing about the T-80 was its engine, and it initially had the same kind of armor the T-64 had in the early '60s. It's a step behind the T-80BV's Kontakt-1 ERA in survivability and well behind the T-80U's Kontakt-5. So the T-80B is really 20 years out of date with its armor and the M48 is 20 years ahead with its gun. T-80Us would have almost certainly survived in this situation but it's fair for T-80Bs to lose with some bad luck.

The M60 isn't really much more advanced than the M48 and it's the same generation as the Leo 1. And modernized M48s, M60s, Leopard 1s, M1 Abrams, and M1IP would have all been using some variant of the same 105mm gun at this point.

There have been plenty of cases of even more modern high tech equipment destroyed by even older museum pieces in Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine, etc. Late production date doesn't necessarily mean it's invulnerable to older weapons - the Browning .50 cal dates back to WW1 and that's still in service probably shooting down drones that don't even officially exist yet.

[Keinutnai]

In warno tanks often show sides on purpose. Very frustrating. Happened to me many times.

[[ING] Ingvarplay]

Originally posted by Ibex92:

Originally posted by Sokol:

Leopard 1 and m48 vs TWO T-80s, beats the T-80s.

Are you kidding me??????????

please if you are looking at this game, dont buy it

I used to try to defend some of these things, but this is absolutely insane that this is even possible in this game
This would NEVER happen in wargame, unless the T-80s were giving their back armor to the enemy

The game is NATO biased and completely anti-Soviet/anti-Russian. Glad you figured it out by now. I tried to mention this before but was " run down " by so called fanboys and Russophobes.

And this NATO army simulator will finally fail online soon if the developers do not reconsider their position.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by ingvarson:

Originally posted by Ibex92:

The game is NATO biased and completely anti-Soviet/anti-Russian. Glad you figured it out by now. I tried to mention this before but was " run down " by so called fanboys and Russophobes.

And this NATO army simulator will finally fail online soon if the developers do not reconsider their position.

The pact forces are just fine.