Leopard 2A3 vs BMP-3 issue / Fix needed.

[Zeno]

I spammed around 12 BMP-3, all of them were firing their ATGM missiles at this one Leopard 2A3.

90% of these missiles missed the Leopard 2A3, over and over again, a few missiles hit the Leopard, not causing much damage.

Eventually I ended up with 12 destroyed BMP-3 and one surviving Leopard 2A3.


I get that you want balance, but ATGM missiles aren't a joke nor should 12 BMP-3 miss a Leopard 90% of all fired shots until they used up all their ATGM missiles.

This definitely requires a fix.

[tripodalt]

if you compare just numbers nothing AT ground red can defeat a abrams ah and everything AT ground blue can defeat a t80 both front obv

[Kampfkekskrieger EXP Folk Master]

I know for sure, back in W:EE the tow jeeps and the konkurs jeeps were dominating the battlefield with their iconic probability hits to updriving tanks.

it was always that kick of a gamble, who shoots first and who hits first and the jeeps alway hidden in bushes everywhere, while the district was sure to be holding atgm infantry, so while driving up to that district to get, you obviously have lost various tanks and infantry transporters to those missiles.

And of course we killed lots of abrams fathers with that.
The bible name comes very odd to me.

the difference between hard and soft tank was just, the tanks below 50 points get on hit,
the tanks above survive (!) missile, and abrams familiy maybe 2 or 3, but acutally this didnt make ANY difference so its very odd to me everybody discusses about JUST this.

We dont count who gives the FIRST shots, but we count how they are caused. in order to get them well AGAIN in a sustaining way is more important than loosing single units to it as we know, if we get favoured, we can relax, if we ger unfavoured, we work faster, both will balance the outcome in the one or other way, there is no way out.

Not a bible and not a smoke tank (Shaman sherman smoking his cigarre instead of shooting) can change the justice outcome in war art. as it MUST flow together when they want to be true to their own rules, all their guidances must give the same results, if they want to remain true milestones on important occassions, which they need to archieve worthy with their power, when they want the respect they promise actually proofed.

I know also, that Wargame European escalation had a PERFECT balancing after the last patches, and that were golden times to play tanks aswell as atgm accordingly.
They break their own perfect finals too soon afterwards with the next game Airland battle.

how stupid, to change it totally, upon success. Isnt the hard archieved balance JUST THE ONE thing to keep in the next game instead of discarding it?

We see lots of tears with their discard philosophies and need to replenish this.

When things come to the xenit of attentional importance, frenchmen and companys scare off because they run out of fuel in the truly worst second in the strategical point of view.

endurancing this, is everything, and is most obvious, to keep good things, and sustain when you are called to. Going for tea time in heat of battles is just naming it.

So when nature calls it, you go for endless raise, and only if opposition makes mistakes, you get peace, but peace does not mean the same as holidays. as you remain target of focus, you need to sustain the full attention all the time, which is the same as dying if you ever go low, is not even an idea for us.

[Grabbed_by_the_spetsnaz]

Escrito originalmente por Aegmar:

I agree that the WP vehicle launched ATGM's are all really underwhelming.

Thats maybe realistic, but then it should reflect in unit pricing a bit more...

Whilst I agree that penetration figures against Composite armour would be disappointing, there is really no need for such piss poor accuracy with it comes to Soviet (and others) ATGM's!

All SACLOS systems would (and should) have a hit rate of 0.8+, even the bad ones like that Dragon! Both simulated and actual combat records state near consistent hit rate of aprox 85% across almost all SACLOS systems.

It gets even more ridiculous when you see systems that use the exact same tracking and guidance system

ie. I-TOW => TOW-2, 9k111 => Konkours, Milan => Milan 2, Falanga-PV => Kokon

Arbitrarily have different accuracy! Because the missile is newer, I guess...

[tripodalt]

the worst part of the game is not the bug or the accuracy or the resistance but the ranges
the main advantage of mbt is range over a infantry rocket and the speed of the projectile over missiles
both the map size and the perfect balncing map all that wasted and unintuitive when you see a flamer backpack is at a single second of hunt from a heavy machinegun and the worst of all is anti air missiles
but for sonme reason the artillery not have such perfect balance and respect some realistic scale unscaled for the plot
hat will be the fun if all the anti air missile had their real range as artillery most are 10km to 40km even the manpads are 6km far from a aerial rocket/gun
related saclos if you look on youtube their is a miss on a suicide car FRONTAL RUSH aT 2KM IN A DESERT not really the 80% expected
as all the missile the official data are pure lobby because all made in perfect condition both weather maintenance and crew condition
people in army dont shoot as much as samurai did for raise skills and if you see someone hitting a moving target with rpg its surely not the peacetime military training
what is sure is reliance of canon over accuracy and shoot in the move for the modern systems

[Havran00]

Escrito originalmente por Kampfkekskrieger:

I know for sure, back in W:EE the tow jeeps and the konkurs jeeps were dominating the battlefield with their iconic probability hits to updriving tanks.

it was always that kick of a gamble, who shoots first and who hits first and the jeeps alway hidden in bushes everywhere, while the district was sure to be holding atgm infantry, so while driving up to that district to get, you obviously have lost various tanks and infantry transporters to those missiles.

And of course we killed lots of abrams fathers with that.
The bible name comes very odd to me.

the difference between hard and soft tank was just, the tanks below 50 points get on hit,
the tanks above survive (!) missile, and abrams familiy maybe 2 or 3, but acutally this didnt make ANY difference so its very odd to me everybody discusses about JUST this.

We dont count who gives the FIRST shots, but we count how they are caused. in order to get them well AGAIN in a sustaining way is more important than loosing single units to it as we know, if we get favoured, we can relax, if we ger unfavoured, we work faster, both will balance the outcome in the one or other way, there is no way out.

Not a bible and not a smoke tank (Shaman sherman smoking his cigarre instead of shooting) can change the justice outcome in war art. as it MUST flow together when they want to be true to their own rules, all their guidances must give the same results, if they want to remain true milestones on important occassions, which they need to archieve worthy with their power, when they want the respect they promise actually proofed.

I know also, that Wargame European escalation had a PERFECT balancing after the last patches, and that were golden times to play tanks aswell as atgm accordingly.
They break their own perfect finals too soon afterwards with the next game Airland battle.

how stupid, to change it totally, upon success. Isnt the hard archieved balance JUST THE ONE thing to keep in the next game instead of discarding it?

We see lots of tears with their discard philosophies and need to replenish this.

When things come to the xenit of attentional importance, frenchmen and companys scare off because they run out of fuel in the truly worst second in the strategical point of view.

endurancing this, is everything, and is most obvious, to keep good things, and sustain when you are called to. Going for tea time in heat of battles is just naming it.

So when nature calls it, you go for endless raise, and only if opposition makes mistakes, you get peace, but peace does not mean the same as holidays. as you remain target of focus, you need to sustain the full attention all the time, which is the same as dying if you ever go low, is not even an idea for us.

Was it really? (jeeps), It has been like 6 or 7 years when I played it last time, and basically the only thing I remember was that MT-LB with Kokon rockets was absolutely annihilating everything in its way.

[Thourq]

Speaking of accuracy, has anyone noticed that ATGMs tend to miss more often against jeeps, like the UAZs and Humvee transports?

[Arby]

Escrito originalmente por mndbsd:

Escrito originalmente por Nero:

Attacking a Leo2 with BMP3 frontally is a massive USER ERROR. l2p before you claim that Pact is underwhelming.

Learn to read. I never said to use bmp's against leo 2, but if you have no other option, and you have 12 bmps vs 1 leo 2, its better to use its main gun.

Escrito originalmente por Nero:

Why? Because then weapons that should not be able to penetrate would still penetrate?

You can pen any armor with any gun if you close the distance enough. There is no unpenetrable armor afaik.

Maybe you should l2p then say that pact is balanced. Clown.

This dude thinks armor magically gets useless just because you're 20 feet instead of half a mile away lmao.

During the gulf war, abrams were unable to penetrate each others turrets at point blank.

[NKVD]

Escrito originalmente por WooTy:

Escrito originalmente por mndbsd:

I think this is how damage is done to vehicles in this game
(pen value - armor value) + 1

So if you shoot a 18 pen atgm at 19 armor you wouldn't do much to it. I think it does 1 dmg as minimum and some stress. Not 100% sure about the end result because accurate info in this game is like catching a unicorn.
Following the dmg formula it should do 0 dmg, but i think it does 1.
If you want to fight a leo 2 with BMP's just disable their atgms and let them fire their main gun.

AP (kinetic) damage can be calculated by using the formula:

((AP of weapon - Armor value of vehicle) /2) + 1 = damage dealt

So yes, a successful hit will always deal at least 1 point of damage, regardless of AP value of the weapon. AP Kinetic ammo will increase its AP value by 1 for every 175m the target gets closer to the weapon. The listed AP value in the stats info card is for the AP value at max range.

Little interesting tibit is that the very 1st AP value increase only requires to be closer by a mere 20m (usually 20m, might be slight more or less depending on some vehicles).


HEAT damage is abit more nuanced and can be referred to this table as a guide:

https://i.gyazo.com/fe66e4ef1cac8d04a17eb7f7b4865105.png

As a general rule of thumb for quick HEAT calculation for 1 hit kills: HEAT damage value - Armor value of vehicle = 14 (or more) = 1 hit kill


AND just to throw it all in there too, HE damage vs armor values:

https://i.gyazo.com/d01a7144e818f9a7efae2bc6cb07b7c5.png

PS: if you are wondering why helicopters have 1 armor and its supposely useless in the HE chart above, its because helicopter armor seems to work differently. Small arms fire (like .50 cal and below) will only deal 0.1x the usual damage against 1 armor.

Edit: Update (LANNES v.76992), 1 armor helicopters will receive 26% less HE dmg from ground AA missiles/guns and air AA missiles and plane guns (armored sides only) So previously a stinger 5HE dmg would 2 shot any heli, now it requires 3 shots to kill an armored heli via a front/side hit.

Where do you have these charts from? Any more of that? I really like to know the math behind some things in this game.

[tripodalt]

everyone else maybe eugen know than kinetic energy decrease with range and the initial speed is superior
the definition of kinetic include anything non explosive
following their small arm range scale a 105mm apdfs must shoot at 20km

[weird fj from beyond]

haha unhinged af

[Enigmatic]

Beam Riding missiles can trigger laser warning systems on the receiving end.