Leopard 2A3 vs BMP-3 issue / Fix needed.

[Zeno]

I spammed around 12 BMP-3, all of them were firing their ATGM missiles at this one Leopard 2A3.

90% of these missiles missed the Leopard 2A3, over and over again, a few missiles hit the Leopard, not causing much damage.

Eventually I ended up with 12 destroyed BMP-3 and one surviving Leopard 2A3.


I get that you want balance, but ATGM missiles aren't a joke nor should 12 BMP-3 miss a Leopard 90% of all fired shots until they used up all their ATGM missiles.

This definitely requires a fix.

[Aegmar]

I agree that the WP vehicle launched ATGM's are all really underwhelming.

Thats maybe realistic, but then it should reflect in unit pricing a bit more...

Also most WP Tanks should not have barrel launched ATGM's, since those where quite rare so not every tank could be equipped with them.

Maybe only for the Command Tanks...

Btw. is there a special value for armor resisiting HEAT rounds like from ATGM's ?

I know the Leopard 2 uses spaced armor and the turret was designed to be especially resistant against ATGM's, while being less resistent to kinetic penetrators because they assumed they would shoot down most enemy tanks before they get close enough to have a hight probability to hit with their main guns.

[Zeno]

Originally posted by Aegmar:

I agree that the WP vehicle launched ATGM's are all really underwhelming.

Thats maybe realistic, but then it should reflect in unit pricing a bit more...

Also most WP Tanks should not have barrel launched ATGM's, since those where quite rare so not every tank could be equipped with them.

Maybe only for the Command Tanks...

Btw. is there a special value for armor resisiting HEAT rounds like from ATGM's ?

I know the Leopard 2 uses spaced armor and the turret was designed to be especially resistant against ATGM's, while being less resistent to kinetic penetrators because they assumed they would shoot down most enemy tanks before they get close enough to have a hight probability to hit with their main guns.

There is nothing realistic about this.The 9M117 Bastion is a Russian laser beam-riding anti-tank missile, these are usually as accurate as the one aiming and firing the missile with only minor deficiencies.

The way it is in-game is indeed completely off.

I have no idea about the barrel launched ATGMs and how often these were used.

I am sure there is a value. But come on, if I hit that thing 4 times with this ATGM then it should pop and not stand there killing all my 12 BMP3 vehicles firing for like 1 minutes, over and over again.

[mndbsd]

I think this is how damage is done to vehicles in this game
(pen value - armor value) + 1

So if you shoot a 18 pen atgm at 19 armor you wouldn't do much to it. I think it does 1 dmg as minimum and some stress. Not 100% sure about the end result because accurate info in this game is like catching a unicorn.
Following the dmg formula it should do 0 dmg, but i think it does 1.
If you want to fight a leo 2 with BMP's just disable their atgms and let them fire their main gun.

Pls correct me if im wrong.


Also Pact is underperforming for 8 months and still no fix, but instead we get a ready button that is mostly a suggestion and an auto group feature turned on by default just so that new players can quit the game even faster.

Also 2...The penetration tooltip is still wrong, when you hover over it says that the displayed pen is at close range value while in game its actually the max range value, which increases with lower distance.
Come on Eugen, its just a text, at least update that.

[M1A2C Abrams]

Originally posted by Ibex92:

I spammed around 12 BMP-3, all of them were firing their ATGM missiles at this one Leopard 2A3.

90% of these missiles missed the Leopard 2A3, over and over again, a few missiles hit the Leopard, not causing much damage.

Eventually I ended up with 12 destroyed BMP-3 and one surviving Leopard 2A3.


I get that you want balance, but ATGM missiles aren't a joke nor should 12 BMP-3 miss a Leopard 90% of all fired shots until they used up all their ATGM missiles.

This definitely requires a fix.

I don't think a BMP-3 could penetrate a Leopard 2A3. The missile was a tiny 100mm model.

[Kampfkekskrieger EXP Folk Master]

frontal placed atgm are not quite the best way to use a bmp 3, but better it is, if it can fire from sides, especially if different units do take the fire of a strong tank on themselves:
e.g. infantry, as they dont die instantly,

and then yoou have time enough the gest the tank PANICKED first, if nothing better use helicopter unguided rockets. and THEN you are well... with your bmp3

they are cheaper than that tank so tells that you need some gimick + them

[Zeno]

Originally posted by Kampfkekskrieger:

frontal placed atgm are not quite the best way to use a bmp 3, but better it is, if it can fire from sides, especially if different units do take the fire of a strong tank on themselves:
e.g. infantry, as they dont die instantly,

and then yoou have time enough the gest the tank PANICKED first, if nothing better use helicopter unguided rockets. and THEN you are well... with your bmp3

they are cheaper than that tank so tells that you need some gimick + them

I attacked from various sides, not just frontally.

This also does not explain all the misses.

ATGM needs a buff.

[tripodalt]

if you shooted a missile at a cheap m48 tank you had not a single miss
the accuracy is not fixed or related to move or stealth but related to the cost of the ennemy
and yes no missile cvan penetrate the front armor of a abrams ah and only the most expensive caN defeat the front of leopard2
i experimented in my first game the situation where i buyed the most cheap unit in mass and i spawmed all my resource on AA against a single helico and none of the 30missile hitted despit stationary and well knowng the trick the ennemy not feared
thus with a hit ratio of 30%i got in fact a 99% miss

[weird fj from beyond]

Post replay or you're lying mein german friendo.

[tripodalt]

your avatar show a nazi flag

[Zabarr]

Frankly this is why I wish Warno used the Steel Division Penetration % mechanic rather than Wargame style hitboxes.

[mndbsd]

Originally posted by Nero:

Attacking a Leo2 with BMP3 frontally is a massive USER ERROR. l2p before you claim that Pact is underwhelming.

Learn to read. I never said to use bmp's against leo 2, but if you have no other option, and you have 12 bmps vs 1 leo 2, its better to use its main gun.

Originally posted by Nero:

Originally posted by Zabarr:

Frankly this is why I wish Warno used the Steel Division Penetration % mechanic rather than Wargame style hitboxes.

Why? Because then weapons that should not be able to penetrate would still penetrate?

You can pen any armor with any gun if you close the distance enough. There is no unpenetrable armor afaik.

Maybe you should l2p then say that pact is balanced. Clown.

[Sokol]

The math for hit chance is very bad and all over the place
a T-80 can have 60 something percent accuracy and miss 4 shots in a row

[Sokol]

Originally posted by Nero:

Hey you're the one claiming pact is underwhelming in a thread about BMP3 vs Leo2 lol.

The "gun" of the BMP3 is HE only. Good luck penning with that.

Hes talking about a mass horde of BMP3s using their ATGMs, and the great majority of the missiles missing

A BMP3 would probably never kill a leopard 2 unless with a side or back hit, but the massive amount of missiles fired and most of them missing, regardless of efficient damage done, is an issue that should be corrected

[Hexagon]

Originally posted by Ibex92:

I spammed around 12 BMP-3, all of them were firing their ATGM missiles at this one Leopard 2A3.
This definitely requires a fix.

Here is your mistake, you could spam NATO-ATMG, even 2 bredly with 25AP and 70% acc could help, or 3 milan-2 marders with 23 AP.
Pact ATMG are just snowballs or soap-bubles.

[Zeno]

Originally posted by Hexagon:

Originally posted by Ibex92:

I spammed around 12 BMP-3, all of them were firing their ATGM missiles at this one Leopard 2A3.
This definitely requires a fix.

Here is your mistake, you could spam NATO-ATMG, even 2 bredly with 25AP and 70% acc could help, or 3 milan-2 marders with 23 AP.
Pact ATMG are just snowballs or soap-bubles.