Too Fast or Too Slow, this "RTS" Lacks True Real-time Mode

[ΗΞΧATαηταlνs]

Currently, WARNO's only options for in-game global rate of time progression are what appear to be A) "Slow Mode" at ~50% of Real-time (too slow), B) "Normal Mode" at ~150% of Real-time (too fast), and C) "Fast Mode" at ~200% of Real-time (way too fast).

I feel a bit like "Goldie Locks", the character from the famous children's fable who was not satisfied with any of the free porridge/stew she was offered by her hosts, all of which were either "too cold" or "too hot", she found no "just right" temperature to satisfy her.

This game is wonderful, but the in-game/in-match global game world time simulation rate/speed options are all either way too slow or way too fast for me to enjoy any matches. For a supposed "RTS", this game is strangely lacking a genuine, true-to-life, real-time mode option for users to choose from while playing skirmish.

I'm not an expert game developer, so I may be somewhat wrong about this, but as a computer programmer and long-time game player with minor game dev experience in the indie RTS scene, I don't think adding just one more "just right" (actually real-time) in-game simulation speed option to the existing choices available to play at would be too difficult from a development standpoint.

As far as I can tell, WARNO's existing game engine and its code and content should be able to fully support a proper, true-to-life, genuinely real-time game world simulation speed mode as an option for some players who dislike the other speed mode options like me.

It pains me to see such a beautifully rendered and detailed, realistic military combat simulation on such a grand scale that includes almost every other one of my long-desired gameplay mechanics and design features I've ever dreamed of be played at such a slow speed, it feels like units and projectiles are moving through molasses or honey and my only other options are to play the game with the ground vehicles moving as fast as aircraft, the aircraft moving as fast as space craft, and the missiles and rockets moving as fast as ballistic missile-deployed hypersonic re-entry vehicles at something like Mach 25 (slight exaggeration, lol).

Can we please have a truly real-time gameplay speed option in singleplayer, campaign, and skirmish matches? It seems like it would be relatively simple to implement, if not trivial in the grand scheme of this game's overall development work.

Who else agrees with me? Again, I just want this to be an option in singleplayer modes, not mandatory.

Thank you, and keep up the great work in every other regard, Eugen! :)

[Cryptic]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2806967194

this helps.

i completely agree with your post. only issue i have with the game is that speed is ridiculous

[busboy999]

Speed and time are real time in the base game. The only wrinkle in this is the 10% speed bonus for cohesion which for ground vehicles equates to a few extra KPH. Acknowledge that some people don't care for the fact that vehicles on fast move are going as fast as possible.

Engagement distance, is not calibrated to actual distance (its about 1/4 actual distance) causing all engagements to be short range engagements.

[Cryptic]

Originally posted by busboy999:

Speed and time are real time in the base game. The only wrinkle in this is the 10% speed bonus for cohesion which for ground vehicles equates to a few extra KPH. Acknowledge that some people don't care for the fact that vehicles on fast move are going as fast as possible.

No it's not just a 10% speed bonus. I am so incredibly sick of people saying this. Even if your units are not at full cohesion, they look like speed demons on the road and move unnaturally fast and it looks ridiculous. Zoom in next time you tell a tank to move on the road or even just through a field. Look at how quickly he flies. It's not just a few extra kilometers per hour. You can literally look at the files and look at their speed right now. Some of them are moving as fast as like 150ish km per hour. Even for fast move, it doesn't matter. Tanks and heavy vehicles and stuff should not be moving as fast as they do. Look at them fly through neighborhoods like a bat out of hell in a Corvette. And let's not even mention the light vehicles.

I drive a Jeep tj 2002 4.0 in real life. Let me tell you something, they don't move that fast. Even if you absolutely floored it. The vehicles in game still move jerky in their acceleration and deceleration as well, coming to complete stops in the blink of an eye which would send the thing flying ass over end in real life. You need to be careful going 40 around a corner or it will tip because it is top heavy.

You need to slow down the unit speeds in game around 20% at least for them to look reasonable and even then it is still high. I'm not talking about the actual game speed, I'm talking about their unit speeds so don't be confused.

Stop using this argument.

I really wish people saying this would go in and test it just for themselves to put the money where their mouth is and simply turn off the 10% cohesion speed bonus and test it out and see. I tried this myself and it still wasn't enough. Don't take it from me, go see for yourself.

[ΗΞΧATαηταlνs]

Originally posted by Corrosion:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2806967194

this helps.

i completely agree with your post. only issue i have with the game is that speed is ridiculous

Thanks so much for your information about that awesome mod, I just wish the developers would include a proper 1:1 timescale in the simulation along with 1:1 realistic weapon ranges and damage models as well. SD2 was an improvement in this regard, as far as I could tell, and WARNO seems like a step backward into the realm of "arcade".

[busboy999]

Originally posted by Corrosion:

Originally posted by busboy999:

Speed and time are real time in the base game. The only wrinkle in this is the 10% speed bonus for cohesion which for ground vehicles equates to a few extra KPH. Acknowledge that some people don't care for the fact that vehicles on fast move are going as fast as possible.

No it's not just a 10% speed bonus. I am so incredibly sick of people saying this. Even if your units are not at full cohesion, they look like speed demons on the road and move unnaturally fast and it looks ridiculous. Zoom in next time you tell a tank to move on the road or even just through a field. Look at how quickly he flies. It's not just a few extra kilometers per hour. You can literally look at the files and look at their speed right now. Some of them are moving as fast as like 150ish km per hour. Even for fast move, it doesn't matter. Tanks and heavy vehicles and stuff should not be moving as fast as they do. Look at them fly through neighborhoods like a bat out of hell in a Corvette. And let's not even mention the light vehicles.

I drive a Jeep tj 2002 4.0 in real life. Let me tell you something, they don't move that fast. Even if you absolutely floored it. The vehicles in game still move jerky in their acceleration and deceleration as well, coming to complete stops in the blink of an eye which would send the thing flying ass over end in real life. You need to be careful going 40 around a corner or it will tip because it is top heavy.

You need to slow down the unit speeds in game around 20% at least for them to look reasonable and even then it is still high. I'm not talking about the actual game speed, I'm talking about their unit speeds so don't be confused.

Stop using this argument.

I really wish people saying this would go in and test it just for themselves to put the money where their mouth is and simply turn off the 10% cohesion speed bonus and test it out and see. I tried this myself and it still wasn't enough. Don't take it from me, go see for yourself.

I did test it myself, and posted my results here.

I was one of the loudest advocates of "the game is too fast" until it was pointed out to me that the range distance and actual distance aren't the same.

Also, for clarity in your argument: time is time. Speed is speed. Distance is distance. Please don't confuse the issue.

In WARNO, time is time, 1:1 as far as I can tell. Speed is speed. Vehicles move as fast as their armory values state, as far as I can tell. Yes, that accounts for the 10% bonus. It is DISTANCE that we have an issue. There is REAL distance which as I have tested is at or close to 1:1, and there is weapons range distance which is 1:4. THAT is the issue that is causing all this debate.

I don't care what things "look like" in a non-physics based wargame. I care whether they are replicating the stated realistic values. Vehicles "looking like" they are too fast when they cover ground realistically doesn't bother me. Them shooting 1/4 their max range does.

[busboy999]

Please see this thread here where I was pointed in the right direction for testing. It changed my opinion:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1611600/discussions/0/3191367471982469318/?ctp=2

"Summary:

Ok, yea, I think you're onto it. I measured a tennis court and soccer field:

Tennis court in game= ~100m length. Real world length is 24m. In game is 4.1x too big.*
Soccer field= ~375m length. Real world length is ~105m. In game is ~3.5 times too big.*

*Too big assuming the distance measurement tool is accurate.

Harder to measure with any precision, but a small church in game appears to be about 150m tall. That's slightly taller than the Cologne cathedral (144m).

In another barely 'scientific' test, I put an M1A1 on a soccer field, took a screenshot, and measured how many M1A1s parked bumper to bumper it would take to go the length of the field.

In real life, an Abrams hull is 7.93m long. Therefore, a 105m soccer field is the length of 13.24 Abrams hulls. By my screenshot math, in game you could line up 15 Abrams hulls across the field, which is close.

So conclusion: I think you're right BroVVn. Vehicles are moving roughly the correct speed in game relative to the terrain; its the range tool (and corresponding weapon ranges) that are off. 1KM according to the range tool is probably about 260 meters. Weapons that are shooting about 2KM are probably shooting about 500 meters.

Has anyone measured the maps themselves and compared the game measurements versus the Eugen stated map size?"

I measured the maps, more follows in the link above.

[Cryptic]

That's fine. You can feel that way. But you can literally watch your vehicles fly past buildings and it looks absolutely absurd. A tank doing 80 mph past a street sign in a small neighborhood. - that just doesn't make any sense. Also, pretty much the entire community agrees that the unit speed is too high. It's like one of the most mentioned criticisms for the game....

If you slow down the actual vehicle speeds like I explained, then you'd see it for what it is. It's not just a 10% speed bonus on roads, it's their speed is ridiculously high no matter how you look at it. Put a tank in a field until it to move past some trees and watch them be gone in a few frames. If it really is ranges, then they need to make vehicles and trees huge compared to what they are which will then require remaking and resizing the models for all of the vehicles and infantry and everything else involved in the game.

If you lower the speed of the vehicles by around 20ish percent then the problem almost completely goes away. That's all there is to it. On top of that, you can give them realistic ranges in the files right now. Instead of having to remake the entire game and do all the unnecessary work, you can change some text and some files and make it accurate and legitimate.

The issue is visual. You may not care about that, but a good portion of the community does. It must be pretty bad considering how many people keep pointing it out and downloading the mods that specifically slow down the unit speeds. I'm sorry but I disagree.

[Luxx]

The problem is the acceleration of the vehicles are a bit to fast. Also Eugen just takes the maximum speed of vehicles in their stats which arent possile in most cases in real life u cant always drive with max speed. Speed in woods looks good. Speed at fields a bit too fast. On road way too fast.

Slower speed on road an fields would be fine.
With weapon they are using for infantry weaons at least "real life" fire rates cause u cant fire endless without overheating.

Also cohesion should not give a speed bonus. It should give a morale bonus or better spooting.

[MoeTheRed]

Originally posted by Luxx:

The problem is the acceleration of the vehicles are a bit to fast. Also Eugen just takes the maximum speed of vehicles in their stats which arent possile in most cases in real life u cant always drive with max speed. Speed in woods looks good. Speed at fields a bit too fast. On road way too fast.

Slower speed on road an fields would be fine.
With weapon they are using for infantry weaons at least "real life" fire rates cause u cant fire endless without overheating.

Also cohesion should not give a speed bonus. It should give a morale bonus or better spooting.

Exactly! That’s the point sine the beginning of those many, many speed-discussions.

[Archimonday]

With speed my primary complaint about the base game is more practical. Aside from it looking silly, there is no military formation who is driving their vehicles, max rpm, pedal to the floor, and able to maintain that rate of March without mechanical breakdowns and loss of cohesion.

IMHO the units should not be designed around how these vehicles theoretically perform on an engineers drafting table, but by what, through what information can be gathered and based on doctrinal interpretation, what these vehicles and weapons are actually being used like on the battlefield.

[busboy999]

Originally posted by Corrosion:

That's fine. You can feel that way. But you can literally watch your vehicles fly past buildings and it looks absolutely absurd. A tank doing 80 mph past a street sign in a small neighborhood. - that just doesn't make any sense. Also, pretty much the entire community agrees that the unit speed is too high. It's like one of the most mentioned criticisms for the game....

If you slow down the actual vehicle speeds like I explained, then you'd see it for what it is. It's not just a 10% speed bonus on roads, it's their speed is ridiculously high no matter how you look at it. Put a tank in a field until it to move past some trees and watch them be gone in a few frames. If it really is ranges, then they need to make vehicles and trees huge compared to what they are which will then require remaking and resizing the models for all of the vehicles and infantry and everything else involved in the game.

If you lower the speed of the vehicles by around 20ish percent then the problem almost completely goes away. That's all there is to it. On top of that, you can give them realistic ranges in the files right now. Instead of having to remake the entire game and do all the unnecessary work, you can change some text and some files and make it accurate and legitimate.

The issue is visual. You may not care about that, but a good portion of the community does. It must be pretty bad considering how many people keep pointing it out and downloading the mods that specifically slow down the unit speeds. I'm sorry but I disagree.

I don't feel that way. I literally tested it. The tanks aren't travelling 80 MPH. On a road at fast travel with the cohesion bonus its about 45 mph which isn't implausible for modern main battle tanks.

The argument that "they shouldn't be going their theoretical max, they should be maxed out at a slower speed" is a valid one. I wouldn't mind if Eugen toned it down. However, I think what they have done with the cohesion bonus especially is tried to make your reinforcements get to the line in a timely fashion.

Its also worth noting that if there is one thing that this community is consistent about, its that no one agrees on game speed. Some think its perfect now. Some think time needs to be slowed down. Some think time needs to be sped up. Some think the vehicles need to be slowed down. Some liked it when they were measurably WAY too fast at release. Etc etc etc.

All I'm doing is pointing out where we are objectively at. Beyond that, I think mods are the solution to the fact that no one seems to agree on what it should be. Personally, I prefer realism, and think that the ranges should be fixed and, yes, vehicles could stand to get slowed a bit more so the 10% bonus didn't take them into slightly unrealistic speeds. The bonus should be the only time a vehicle hits its factory max speed, in my personal opinion.

[Rg66]

Slow it down and I'll play again. Regiments which just released has the right balance of speed to actually allow players to think and strategize. WARNO developers should pop on to the Regiments forum and take notice at all the comments and comparisons to WARNO that are attracting players to Regiments. Please address the speed issue before official release!

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by robertgamba:

Slow it down

They already did.

Twice.

If things are still too fast for you, mods are your answer.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Nero:

Its silly how many awards are being thrown around in here.

To be fair, this is an old thread that was made quite some time before the relevant patches. It was just necro'd for some reason. :b

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Right now though, top speeds aren't the problem. Game still feels hyper fast.
I reckon it's the acceleration of everything that is way too quick. How fast does a tank actually go from standstill to flat out? What about a big honking truck?

Currently it seems that everything ingame reaches its top speed in about two, at most three seconds. That is some incredible engine power. Reducing vehicle acceleration to at least somewhat realistic values would slow down the front line fighting a lot while making nearly no difference in how long reinforcements take to arrive.