First impressions

[Pteraspidomorphi]

Hey, backer here. After years of largely silence (as others have mentioned) I was sent a "beta" key with no context or instructions. What kind of beta is it? How long will it last? Is feedback expected? Are we looking for bugs? Will things still be changed, added, fixed? Who knows! As an experienced tester I figured I'd leave some general feedback, a prerelease review of sorts. I played through the entire first world so far, including extra stages, in warmup intensity.

First of all: The game is a lot of fun! The gameplay is fairly satisfying - I fumbled a little with the keyboard controls at first and eventually changed to a controller, which yielded a better experience. The visuals feel consistent and polished. I really love the animated cutscenes! And the music is really, really good, which is key in a game like this. Plus, there seems to be plenty of content! Glad I backed.

I should also mention I'm the type who enjoys wandering off and exploring, and I really appreciate that I'm rewarded for it in this game (to the point where I suspect I won't have to purchase weapons from the store too often - other types of items are a different story). The inventory/purchase system in general, with the different types of weapons, attributes and special effects, allows me to adapt the gameplay to my own taste, which is great. It's good that we can dismantle useless loot for money, though the payout for that currently feels a little cheap and unsatisfying.

Aesthetically and mechanically, the waves of discordians the hero fights can feel a little repetitive, at least in the skylands. I defeated many many groups of little guys that show up in greater numbers, bigger ones that punch/slam harder, mid ranged ones with fireballs and snipers with the telegraphed lasers. It would be more interesting if they at least had different looks (or maybe they did and I just couldn't see it!) The same can be true of the level layout elements, which can often be seen repeated across consecutive levels, and it's noticeable (though there are also plenty of more unique setups spread throughout, so this isn't that important).

The 2D UI elements are functionally fine, but I feel like there's room for a little more ornament and visual polish. This ties in with the way the story of the game is delivered, too. The long exchanges of boring white Arialish text in or between campaign levels got annoying very quick. Like, they're not that long out of context, but it's a game about rhythm and sound and keeping a consistent pace, and they're in the way. And I'm saying this as an avid reader (and beta reader) and writer. In context, the story doesn't grab me. There are a dozen ways to improve on this - from big changes like adding voice acting (which I understand is unlikely to be cost effective) to small ones like adding character to the text through the use of typefaces, emphasis, color, etc. (and double checking if characters have their own distinctive voices) or novelty ones like we've seen in certain indie games - maybe the characters could rap their lines! Maybe their lines should be delivered to the player to the sound of the beat! Maybe instead of a single static picture, character visuals could be more dynamic in their dialogue portrait view. I don't know. Like I said, many options here.

At first the awards given on each level seemed designed for Another Type Of Player, which was a little disappointing. For example, finishing the level before the song loops is strictly incompatible with exploring and being thorough - and in fact seems incredibly difficult even if you're rushing, at least in some levels! (I suppose you can always go back at a later point, with much better equipment, and tear through those enemies much faster). But there is no "find every secret" award that I've seen. Then again, I've already been able to get some of the "do it perfectly" awards without trying, so maybe you all know better.

I did not encounter any bugs yet. I am unable to test multiplayer currently, but looking forward to seeing how it plays.

[Sicarius]

I've played through skylands and beach now as well as a few imported songs. I agree that the fights and level layout at least in the campaign so far are very small, sameish and as such a bit on the boring side. I was however very impressed by the import feature. What the system created for Through Fire and Flames (didn't have Sandstorm ready... ) for example was as epic as the song and fit the theme (it chose the volcano setting) perfectly.

I also agree that the delivery of the story could be better. Just clicking my way through the text with only a few short cutscenes so far has not been that much fun or engaging for me. Which is sad since the story the devs want to tell in general is good.

In terms of exploration vs. speed: Once I got the hang of the system it seem to actually be not that hard in most levels to both get all the bonus chests and reach the end in time - at least on warmup difficulty. Moderate is still kicking my butt :).

My enjoyment of the game depends a bit on the song of course (not everything is a hit) but overall I'm definitily having fun.

[Phenix840]

After playing 12 hours on the game and completed what appears to be 8 of the 10 available regions and 1 boss, maybe I can add to your review. I reached level 30 at the time of this review.

Yes, the game is astoundingly fun, and the music is great. I have yet to see any major bugs or problems, and balancing appears to be pretty good right now. The difficulty levels do feel about right, so they are tough, but not so tough for the casual gamer (me) that it can't be done. The weapons don't currently feel overpowered and they do scale well enough to play the higher difficulties.

I play on keyboard, and the controls are good. I can't compare to a controller since I have never used a controller in my life, so I am accustomed to keyboard and mouse and I don't have any major issues with the controls, but I definitely understand the preference of controller over keyboard and mouse, but I see no issues currently with these controls.

I am also an explorer, and I can say that even on intensity 3 (3 skulls, I forget what its actually called in game), I am able to loot 2-3 chests and still complete the level in the time limit of the song, even with mediocre gear for the level (as in not going back to repeat the level later with better gear as you suggest). It takes practice and a decent amount of skill, which will come naturally by playing the game more. There is an achievement for opening 100 chests, but I'm not sure if that counts the chest at the end of the level, so this might be a moot point.

Dismantling gear is admittedly underwhelming, but as you get rarer gear and high levels it starts to be worth a bit more. You get the most of your money from completing levels. You can repeat levels and earn 100% of the experience and gold on the same level you already completed, even if your score is lower than what you did previously, so you can grind it out if you really wanted to.

Levels do become very repetitive after a while, I will agree there. There are more enemy variants and appearances the higher your difficulty gets, and they do look distinctly different to showcase that the enemy is different and potentially stronger, and let me tell you some of them are nasty! They will also change color as the enemies gain elemental affinities and damage.

The story is definitely meh and kinda just there, but as it progresses it more starts to tell morals instead of an actual story, so you could look at it that way, but currently the story isn't the main focus of the game. The way it's presented (2D portraits and text) is fine with me, its an aesthetic choice that some games make and I'm fine with it, though I understand where some people would come from since the 2D portraits really isn't engaging at all.

The level rewards are based on performance, and being that the game is all about the beat, it makes sense to reward those who stay true to the game, which is staying on beat, not dropping the beat, and doing it on time. The game claims that a higher rating (award earned) for completing the level awards better gear, but currently I think that's bogus. I've done a couple of perfect songs on intensity 3, but the reward was just the standard whatever gear piece. I find that getting the good stuff comes from getting a lucky roll in the shop, or very rarely from an enemy. The final chest has given a couple good items, but it doesn't feel weighted, as in the chest doesn't actually give anything better that I can tell compared to other item sources.

Something to add to your review: the first boss (actual boss, not level 10 of the world) was very well done in my opinion. I won't spoil anything, but it is a challenge, has a great song to go with the boss, but sadly doesn't actually award any items (unless you get a lucky drop from an enemy), just campaign progress. Even the boss has some attacks to the beat, which I think is awesome.

The only bugs I actually encountered were rather minor. One of the enemies spawned behind some rocks and couldn't move, but it was still targetable. One of the charging enemies continued its charge even though it hit a wall, which made killing really simple since it continued the run animation against the wall. The game crashed a couple of times as I hit the exit to desktop button, which I don't consider a problem since I was quitting anyway. Another charging enemy got stuck up on a rock during its charge, but you could still hit it and eventually it did charge back down, so rather minor there.

I have yet to test multiplayer in any aspect, so I don't know how that works if it scales based on player count or something else. I really hope it scales, otherwise doing this with 4 players will be a cake walk even on the highest difficulty.

Hope this helps!

[Noodle_Ryan]

Wow this all some crazy detailed feedback. For better or worse we appreciate all your input! Some of these items might be tweaked before launch, other post and others just are what they are.

Either way we really really appreciate the thoughtful feedback!

[Pteraspidomorphi]

No problem. I've played a couple more times and beat the first boss, so I can update my impressions a little:

- The story really feels, to me, very dull, disconnected from the game, to the point where it's painful (and probably not rescuable as I suggested originally), I just mash A to quickly get it out of the way by this point. (Sorry!) Still love the animated cutscenes.

- I have now experienced more variety of enemies and I agree with what was said about gameplay variety not being a problem so much as you progress. I withdraw that criticism.

- What Phenix said above is generally right, but also: I think the rewards for exploration quickly became worthless. I eventually stopped exploring altogether, since it was getting in the way of finishing the level faster only to gain (often) common items below rank of what I had equipped which sold for peanuts. This stagnation went on for a good 3 worlds...

[Edit: Playing right now and I'm still not getting useful items as loot. It's like Diablo 2 - past a certain point everything below rare is junk!]

- ...which seems to me like it's a symptom of a much greater issue with value balance. I got through the first part of the game by relying on the gear new characters arrived with, which was always much stronger than anything I could find, collect as loot, or (almost always) find in the store. Once in a while I sold a bunch of stuff and bought something, and managed to keep a few thousand coins. But now that I ran out of characters, the disconnect between the cost of items and their sale value immediately became a problem. Having trouble with the last character (DJ guy) I decided to switch to another character, and equip her with last level items. This immediately burned through all of my money. I still need a new blaster for her, and once I saw an adequate one in the shop, but... even after selling almost every item I had in storage I failed to have enough to buy this single item. Now I have to grind, but I run the risk of no longer seeing an appropriate item for her. This is incredibly frustrating. I don't have to tell you no one likes to be forced to grind, reroll and repeat stuff generally because of a design choice like this. Please, rebalance collectibles, loot and sales values. Maybe add a system to let people trade something in order to reroll the shop too (or did I fail to notice the existence of such a system?)

- The default difficulty for levels upgraded to challenging sooner than I had the game's own recommended level of 20, and definitely much sooner than I feel qualified to play it. But if I want to lower the difficulty I have to toggle it every single time I start a level. Argh! Don't make me do this! Please keep the latest difficulty I selected!

- I tried importing songs. It works fine! But it's infuriating that the button to import the song is the same as the button to delete a song (select on the controller). You kind of have to be careful to browse to a bundled song before importing so you don't accidentally eviscerate your library. Please rethink this!

- I can't complete optional level 5-D, Crypts. I've tried several times a few days ago. At one point near the end of the level I'm trapped, as the area walls don't go down, but there are no enemies left to kill.

- I also saw the enemy trapped behind the rocks in world 6.

[Pteraspidomorphi]

I don't remember exactly when this happened (world 3 or thereabouts? not sure though), but there was a time a few lines of dialogue played when you accessed the map after a specific level. If you wanted to tab out of the map and go check your quests or something before starting the next level, *every* single time you went back to the map the same dialogue would play again. I saw the same dialogue five or six times before I made that go away by playing the next level.

[Pteraspidomorphi]

For people trying to actually use multiple characters alternatively, it would be nice if all items were listed in the inventory, including items equipped by other characters (but marked as equipped). It would make swaps easier and minimize the difficulty of outfitting a new character.

[Phenix840]

Having completed the game and played every level twice for the lethal encore achievement, here are some further thoughts. Prepare yourselves, this is a long one.

First, I'm not sure why but the first boss felt a lot harder than the second, and substantially longer. The song for the first boss is half the length of the second, so I think maybe tweaking a few things there might be helpful, or it could just be me. It's probably just me.

Second, the point about exploration being pointless, they are completely right. The added items really are not that helpful, because when you reach the end game, not a whole lot else matters besides getting the achievements and earning more legendary gear. Another roll for the gear is great, but it kinda feels like just completing the level is better so you can start the next one.

In terms of gear value and scaling, I never had any problems with money or having good enough gear to complete any of the levels. Perhaps it comes with practice and getting lucky on some of he early gear rolls, I'm not sure. I did get a super lucky level 29 legendary requiem scattershot, which helped tremendously in farming levels to earn gold, exp, and more item rolls in the store. That item lasted till I was almost max level it was so good. No, it didn't have absurdly high damage values (18 x 5), it was the combo of skills it had, which was homing and splitting on top of a requiem scattershot. Cleared hoards as if there wasn't a hoard there.

Continuing with items, by the time I completed the game I was floating around 20k, ignoring anything in the store that didn't suit my fancy, play style, or outright sucked. At some point you do start looking only for blues, then only purples, and finally at level 50 you really only care about oranges. All that aside, grinding to level 50 earns enough money that I didn't have issues with the store or gear, ever. Adding a reroll function to the store would be pretty great, but I think it should cost something as opposed to just sitting there, mindlessly clicking and waiting for the exact item you want. You can grind and kill enemies to do that. Even a small cost of 50-100 gold would likely be worth it. Maybe reaching level 50 would unlock this feature as opposed to having it there always, I don't know. If it is enabled for all levels, perhaps it should be free until level 20 for example and have very low chances of hitting the legendary jackpot.

My play style revolves around playing 1 character, gearing them up, and going from there, and the fact that blasters and armor are shared between characters made it even easier to gear everyone up, just had to remember to equip the right stuff when I did switch characters. The disconnect between item prices and sell value is an issue though, but as stated once you reach end game, you don't have money issues. After every level on lethal, I am sitting at a pretty 140k and no way to get rid of it.

Once the game naturally upped the difficulty, it was challenging at first, but I never found it too difficult to deal with. I also was about the right level when it did switch over. The difficulty toggling is a bit annoying, but nothing that can't be managed. Once you complete all levels, it keeps the difficulty last selected. I guess it doesn't do that when you first encounter the level, which is a bummer.

Importing songs works pretty good. I agree that the button to delete the song is in the same place as importing a new one, which is not great if you want to spam click and add a bunch of songs at the same time. You have to click on a different, non-imported song to add a new one if you don't want to delete the song you just added.

There have been some instances where enemies spawn or otherwise get trapped on the wrong side of the door. I was lucky that my primary weapon had the explosive trait, which damaged the enemy on the other side of the wall when it was right next to it, so clearing the enemies was still possible even after the bug appeared.

Something worth noting about achievements: wow they are not worth it and take a ton of time. The encores I get, playing every level just takes a long time. 100,000 Discordians? No way! I completed all but 3 achievements, reaching level 50, completing all levels for the story and again for lethal, and many more, but I have only accrued 40,000 kills. Makes that pathetic purple item at the end worthless. In my opinion, achievements that require so much commitment should reward something worthwhile. Perhaps a unique item with something different from or more powerful than normal loot? Maybe an option to spend your overflowing vaults of gold to select what stats you want on an item (after completing a hard achievement)? The multiplatinum achievement, in my opinion, is much too difficult for the standard casual gamer (me), so it should award something worth going through all the pain and suffering to get the thing. Don't get me wrong, 4 legendaries is pretty awesome, but the chance of them being useful or comparable to the items you randomly acquire getting the achievement is very low. Again, the idea of something unique or special store/menu option for completing the achievement would be better than items for these top level and difficult achievements.

Talking about the second boss: that was a satisfying fight. Didn't feel as tough as the first boss having lots of practice to get to him, but it was a good fight. Well designed, I like it.

In terms of the characters overall: I find having some way to reflect or otherwise protect yourself from projectiles is a must on lethal difficulty, and in that regard Lydia (the cellist with a bow) is severely lacking. Everyone else has a way to block projectiles with an upgraded weapon effect, or just by being Bryte with a shield. Dashing with reflect feels very lackluster to me and occasionally difficult to pull off when focusing too hard on the beat and the mountain of enemies following you. Also, Lydia's ultimate feels underwhelming. The AOE is a bit small, but levels most things in it. I have no idea if the homing legendary trait is actually doing anything, but then again I don't play her much to notice. Compared to the weapons of the other heroes, Lydia just feels a bit weak. The bow standard attack is also difficult to use since it slows you down without the help of a weapon trait. It feels clunky to me having to charge it up while also keeping up with the beat and enemies around you while being slow. A similar issue occurs for me with Jackson's axe.

For the rest of the heroes, my favorite by far is Ky with his scythe. His ultimate is spectacular and destroys everything. Not to mention it appears to be one of the few things that can pick up and move those gigantic brutes (might be a bug, I don't know). Ky can acquire reflecting on a legendary scythe, which makes him very good for lethal difficulty.

Melody is also a great hero. Her sword can also get reflecting with a legendary trait, so she is also viable for lethal. Her ult feels a little weaker than Ky's, but about on par damage wise. It certainly lasts a lot longer than Ky's, which makes up for it feeling a little weaker. Only a little, it's still strong. If I didn't personally like scythes so much, the sword would be my second choice.

Jackson is acceptable, but I personally had a hard time working with his axe. Didn't really mesh well with my play style, so that's honestly why I don't like him. His ult is amazing though. It deals loads of damage and is extremely satisfying to use. The normal axe attacks are also high in damage, but hard to use for me with the charge up to use it. For someone who can get used to how it works, this would be a very strong character for them. The axe can get reflecting, so this makes it useful for lethal. It's also fairly common to see the trait 'immune to damage while charging or attacking' on the axe, so that's also helpful when dealing with projectiles. I understand the charge up for both the axe and the bow, but for me it just didn't work great.

Last but not least is Bryte. She was the character I sued the most before realizing how good Ky was. Her natural ability to block or reflect projectiles with the shield was the best thing since sliced bread for Soundfall. It's a slow cooldown, but done properly you won't need it every beat anyway. The shield ult is also extremely good, which basically provides an area of invincibility while it lasts. If you want defense, this is the way to go. I still prefer Ky with his massive offence, but that's a personal choice, not so much gameplay balance decisions.

Overall, I love this game, it offers the chance to play to the rhythm of a song in such a stellar way. Changing BPM in the middle of a song is excrutiating and aggrevating, but such is the way of music. I have found no issues with the general, overall quality of the game minus a few bugs here and there, but they are all fairly minor and easy to deal with. The game looks very polished and ready for release tomorrow (if that suits your fancy of course). The aesthetics of the game are gorgeous and everything appears to run and work as intended. The shop could use some work, like a reroll function for a small cost instead of after every level (failed or completed), but otherwise I don't see any problems with it. Well done on the game, you brought me out of hiding for my first ever massive post about any game I have ever played (mostly because no one else can right now, so I offer some suggestions and comments)!

[Phenix840]

For some reason I can't edit my last post, so I'll just put this here.

At the time of posting, I have played 34 hours, reached level 50, and have all but 3 achievements: play with 2+ players (because I don't know anyone else who has this), multiplatinum (because no), and kill 100,000 Discordians (because it takes too long). In addition, I have acquired many legendaries and played extensively with 3 characters (Melody, Bryte, and Ky). I have much less experience with Jackson and Lydia.

[BoSs_391]

Thanks for the Backer review, looking forward to this game as it just grabbed my attention today

[Pteraspidomorphi]

Phenix, I have yet to play again since I haven't had time but another thing I forgot to add: The gun element buffs system also appears to me to be at odds with the difficulty acquiring enough value. Even if you can luck out and get a good blaster that allows you to get by, the elements and inventory systems would appear to indicate that the player is expected to have different alternatives at hand with different strengths and weaknesses. But if I'm having trouble getting a single set of items when swapping characters, I'm certainly not going to pay special attention to the elements in the items, which means any tactical fun the player might have with that system never happens (at least until you reach the inevitable point when you no longer need to power creep and money starts to accumulate, but that would be towards the end of the campaign). What do you think?

[LazärheaD]

Looks really up my alley. I love that the different characters represent different music genres. And we will be able to use our own music. Also a fan of Noodlecake from their mobile only days.

[Phenix840]

In terms of elemental attributes, I think they work pretty well. Not sure if I'm dealing more damage vs an element I'm strong against and less vs the weak element, but the elemental effects themselves add more flavor and strength to weapons. Maybe I'm just not noticing the difference in damage since there really isn't a way to see exactly how much damage is being dealt, only that the enemy health bar is dropping to zero. I don't really have a favorite element, I just kinda roll with whatever is on my weapon of choice, but it is preferred to have something as opposed to nothing so you get that sweet extra skill while firing.

It does appear that they want you to have 2 different weapons and different gear for different situations, but most frequently I only see needing 1 full set of gear, good or otherwise, and brute forcing my way through everything. Maybe this will get patched or addressed at some point, I don't know.

I think how you play with the weapons during the levels is what really makes an item good or bad, you just need to know how to work with the game I suppose. It does take considerable effort to avoid all the enemies and bullets while also trying to aim, but I never had any major issues with gear or elements.

[Phenix840]

If you were looking for a break down in elements, I'll add that here, in no particular order:

For bolero, it does gradual burn damage over time and stacks with repeated hits. It deals a ton of damage over its duration, but if you're looking for burst then this element doesn't really help you, its power is in hitting it once and letting it burn. Good damage output, but takes time.

Minuet is the lifestealing element. All around very good for not dying when everything in lethal kills you in 2-4 hits. No additional damage, more a solid defensive element.

Serenade is for slowing enemies and stacks with multiple hits. Again, no additional damage, lasts a good length of time, and is a very good defensive element, especially when running away from the following hoards, or even just a single big enemy.

Requiem is the hoard clearer. It deals additional damage if and only if there are multiple enemies around the hit target. For clarity it deals lightning chain damage to nearby enemies. It might deal additional damage to a single target after a certain time since I've seen a few times where it might be bugged and deals a delayed damage to them after they move away from the original spot they were hit at, but I'm not sure. A very good offensive element when dealing with more than 1 enemy at a time.

Lastly is nocturne. This element deals a large amount of burst damage in an area around the target you hit after a short delay. Deals damage to the target and in a small AOE around the target after 4 beats. The damage output is usually quite high for a single target, but if you leave it alone for a while bolero would actually deal more continuous damage to the target if the target was left alone long enough. Same thing as bolero - good damage output, but it takes time. If you have a tendency to leave targets alone for a long time, go with bolero first. If you need a bit more hoard clearing than bolero offers, nocturne will work better.

Both bolero and nocturne have a similar problem though - if everything dies too fast for any DOT to be applied (because your weapon naturally hits hard or you are good at killing them otherwise), then you're better off with any other element. Defensively, it depends on what you are struggling with most - if you need HP, you need minuet. If you can't keep the enemies away, you need serenade. The other 3 are offensive and have their own capabilities. Requiem is a general all around offensive element that applies damage instantly, but requires something to bounce between, so not good for a solo target. Bolero and nocturne are both good at single targets, but require time to get the damage.

In my opinion, the elements are handled rather nicely. While not a necessity by any means, they are well worth it if you can get a weapon that has an element, even if it deals reduced damage to 1 type of enemy (assuming it actually deals less damage, I have nothing to compare it to for testing purposes). Overall, first pick the weapon you want with the damage and traits you want, and then look for elements. I think elements are more an icing on the cake kinda thing as opposed to something you must have to do good at this game. Properties of the elemental stats does scale with the level of the item.

Hope this was more what you were looking for and helps out anyone else who reads this.

[Arakus]

Originally posted by Phenix840:

So do Bolero, Serenade, Requiem and Nocturne work like Hangover, Chill, Chain Lightning and Doom from Hades? Sounds like that's where they were taking inspiration from for those.

[Phenix840]

Having never played Hades I cannot answer that! Would love to play Hades, but too many other things going on atm to enjoy Hades yet. Mostly too many other games.