I was reading the description on the store page and...

[titanopteryx]

It says spice makes intersteller travel possible and is only found on planet Arrakis. If they can't do intersteller travel without the spice, how did they get to Arrakis in the first place? I cry shenanigans.

[Steerpike3]

In Dune lore, the universe was explored and colonized with the help of "thinking machines" i.e. self-aware AI. The machines were overthrown during the Butlerian Jihad, and now human beings of the Spacing Guild need the spice to perform the calculations to make space travel possible

[Sardaukar]

Read the novel. Dune is not shiro's Idea. :P

[titanopteryx]

Origineel geplaatst door Steerpike3:

In Dune lore, the universe was explored and colonized with the help of "thinking machines" i.e. self-aware AI. The machines were overthrown during the Butlerian Jihad, and now human beings of the Spacing Guild need the spice to perform the calculations to make space travel possible

Ok, I retract my cry of shenanigans.

[Sardaukar]

Origineel geplaatst door Steerpike3:

In Dune lore, the universe was explored and colonized with the help of "thinking machines" i.e. self-aware AI. The machines were overthrown during the Butlerian Jihad, and now human beings of the Spacing Guild need the spice to perform the calculations to make space travel possible

Actually one thing to point out. (yeah im gonna be that guy :P)

Full selfaware AI was never the issue in Dune. There is no "men of iron" revolution of skynet situation.

The beauty of dune is that it was all humans. What the issue was with "thinking machines" which is not necessarily AI. But machines that rendered hiring a human being for his mind pointless. The issue was creating 2 sets of people where one group is using the machines to control the group that doesn't use the machine.

The revolt was against the people who use machines not the machines themselves. Ultimately the issue was humans.

The idea of rogue AI actually came with brian not frank. I believe Frank's version is better because it's more human than just throwing the blame on a machine.

[pepino2000]

In think some of you are missing the point. According to the novels, interstellar travel has always been possible, albeit slow. It's instantaneous/space-folding travel which is (kinda) not possible without spice.

[hannibal_pjv]

Origineel geplaatst door pepino2000:

In think some of you are missing the point. According to the novels, interstellar travel has always been possible, albeit slow. It's instantaneous/space-folding travel which is (kinda) not possible without spice.

Actually instantaneous travel was possible without spice, but it needed intelligent machines and it was a hazard and they did lose some ships.
But then we go to prelude to Dune staff ;)
Aka they did have motors to make jumps, but calculating those jumps was hard.

[Sardaukar]

Origineel geplaatst door pepino2000:

In think some of you are missing the point. According to the novels, interstellar travel has always been possible, albeit slow. It's instantaneous/space-folding travel which is (kinda) not possible without spice.

As far as I remember, there are 2 components.

The holtzman effect engines.

and navigation which was done by computers.

the holztman effect is what folds space and allows instantaneous travel. this is done without spice.

navigation however is the problem. Before the ban on "thinking machines" humans used machine to figure out where to teleport to without having to crash into a planet or a celestial object and die.

(side note: even something as simple as a calculator was considered a thinking machine since it does logical work and was banned f*ck them calculators)

When the ban happened the engines remained but the navigation part was gone. Hence the spice requirement to travel safely. Spice enhances brain function and allows the guild navigators who are "drenched in spice" which gives them a huge ability to perform calculations to find out the best path through the universe. Just like a computer would.

Basically a Guild Navigator is a jacked up/spiced up spice addict who has consumed so much spice they actually no longer appear human. They are deformed and their bodies have changed shape. They are closely guarded by the Guild and no one is allowed to even lay eyes on them. They have super calculations capabilities that allows them to choose the best path through the stars without collision with celestial objects.

[Estrateking]

I think the thinking machines were already banned when the Holtzman effect engines were invented. The first user of them ignored the ban, but when they were discovered, they had to play Russian roulette until the effect of the Spice was discovered.
It was right before the end of the war with the mechanized humans. They were in fact the key tactical weapon used to defeat them (since they relied on a traditional FTL ship to deliver information across their empire, an hyper FTL nuclear purge squad could wreck havoc in their back lines without issue).

[Sardaukar]

Please. Mechanized humans are not a thing in dune x(

[Estrateking]

Origineel geplaatst door Sardaukar:

Please. Mechanized humans are not a thing in dune x(

They are in the prequel novels.

[Kōizumi Seishiro]

Also, mechanized humans is what Ix is all about, they are cyborgs

[Stardustfire]

as a note: i ignore the bad cashgrab writeing of the son as nonecannon...

in the first book from Frank the travel is described that way that the navigator himself folds the space, not a engine. in the last book from Frank on the other side they flee with a spaceship too, but without a navigator and that ship needed its time to travel with an engine.

for butlers jihad, it was never completly explained how far AI was developed or what exactly happend to cause the crusade by Frank (only some extra info fragments sprinkled in the books when the Wormgod changed the maintheme) , a little like the clonewars in SW for us oldies who watched Episode 4 as the first movie. the difference is that Lucas got the Time to unravel it to us later.

[Sardaukar]

Origineel geplaatst door Estrateking:

Origineel geplaatst door Sardaukar:

Please. Mechanized humans are not a thing in dune x(

They are in the prequel novels.

those dont count.

[IonizedMercury]

Origineel geplaatst door Sardaukar:

Origineel geplaatst door Steerpike3:

In Dune lore, the universe was explored and colonized with the help of "thinking machines" i.e. self-aware AI. The machines were overthrown during the Butlerian Jihad, and now human beings of the Spacing Guild need the spice to perform the calculations to make space travel possible

Actually one thing to point out. (yeah im gonna be that guy :P)

Full selfaware AI was never the issue in Dune. There is no "men of iron" revolution of skynet situation.

The beauty of dune is that it was all humans. What the issue was with "thinking machines" which is not necessarily AI. But machines that rendered hiring a human being for his mind pointless. The issue was creating 2 sets of people where one group is using the machines to control the group that doesn't use the machine.

The revolt was against the people who use machines not the machines themselves. Ultimately the issue was humans.

The idea of rogue AI actually came with brian not frank. I believe Frank's version is better because it's more human than just throwing the blame on a machine.

Frank never quite elaborated on how the ban on thinking machines came to be, but I say this, it's unlikely humanity would have gone down this part just at the behest of a bunch of grognards who couldn't go with the times, there must have been a major crisis of some kind. Whether it was a robot war like in the continuation series or something else, humanity would never willingly let go of something that makes life that much easier and conveniet.