"Bosses" really suck.

[Jay and Silent Rob]

Making bosses HP sponges is bad game design.
Making bosses hit like trucks is bad game design.
Giving bosses no weaknesses is bad game design.

And yet every boss has the first and second problem, and every 3rd boss had all three problems.

Why would you design a boss that can outrun the player, hit like a truck, and has attacks that trigger big AoEs or drops a lot of damage outside of the main attack area so that even if you dodge the big attack, you still get hit by the AoE or secondary effects of the attack?

I just tried to fight the bear boss and it's faster than me, hits harder than I can heal with a full blood setup, and even if you dodge its big ground pound attack, the area around it gets hit by falling rocks, meaning you not only have to dodge the attack, but then have to keep retreating in the tiny cave as rocks fall. But once you've retreated a little bit, the bear will use a charge attack, often from off-screen, and slam into you.

This single boss just randomly has complete coverage of every battle strategy a player might throw at it. And before the bear, it was the pig-headed necromancer that could shield itself and teleport away from damage and covered the area with AoEs that you had to run through to reach it, and its teleportation often carried into other enemies that would aggro you and raise skeletons to block you. Again: Full coverage defense. You can't run in because of skeletons and lingering AoEs, and when you do make it in, the enemy just shields itself or teleports away or both.

There's no nuance or skill to these battles, so they shouldn't be so impossible. The combat system in the game is far weaker than the likes of a standard ARPG/Diablo-like game, so you can't throw enemies into the game that would be challenging even in an ARPG with great combat and 6 skill slots.

[PoorUglyPeasant]

git gud you scrub

[Shadowfang]

Princess Muu-Muu a écrit :

I

The only other boss is probably Bandit King. He is the final gear check before the mid-game and I found his fire archers + spin attack is just too much for that gear level. He broke in my game and just stopped moving as well.

your thinking of militia captain the bandit king is the push over that reflects projectiles and shield charges biggest problem with him is making it though his camp with enough time to kill him

[🔥 Dr Carlos Saúl Menem 🔥]

They were relatively easy for me, just get good gear, good blood, and use the blood moon for the most difficult ones, also use potions and the right spells, in other words, sorry, but get good ...

[Aurelia]

Just reading the first sentences and the first two paragraphs, i was like "They're talking about the bear, aren't they..."

This boss is definately different, but is one of the easiest bosses in the game, because all you gotta do is out-power it. I had no idea what i was walking into on this fight, and panicked like crazy when I couldn't get away from it, but somehow still managed to take it out with dying. Probably because my gearscore was 41 and I was using a spear.

See it's actually ironic that it was mentioned "no weaknesses" but this is one of the very few (if only) bosses that actually has a weakness. It's a creature, unlike all the other bosses in this region except the wolf.

[Bloodwolff]

I think the bosses are great, though can be frustrating, as the movement skill's cool-down sucks a bit as it's never ready when you really need it, especially when you get caught it the bosses specials and get volleyed like crazy from each new special skill :P

However...... the boss mechanics are Awesome! as they change the more HP you deplete from the bosses.

May reduce the cool down on the movement skill from vanilla to maybe 5 secs cool-down.

Some bosses are super easy, especial when you figure a technique to fight them. I found out the undead spell casting bosses and easy to defeat.

[Letterdief]

IMHO: the CD on mobility skills is too long (8 seconds) to be able to dodge the barrage of skills fired by the boss. So I resort to hit and run:

1. Find big juicy indestructible rock.
2. Hit the boss.
3. When things get spicy, hide behind rock, kite and wait for cooldowns.
4. Go back to step 2.

It's cheesy, but games use cheese tactics too. The boss doing skills every 2-3 seconds. Meanwhile the players have to wait for 5+ second cooldowns . Boss doing attacks that melt half of playesr health down and players slapping the boss with needles. I don't mind though, I just adjust and cheese games that cheese me.

[Bexx]

Between 30 and 40 gs bosses getting hard in your first playthrough. I thought for bear boss and Nicholas the Fallen I'll need better gear, even though I'm at 41.
Especially Nicholas gave me a hard time. After trying different skills/weapons/tactics and with the best possible preparation available I killed them at the end. I can imagine that those bosses at 40gs and above will be even more difficult. I like that, it's challenging!

[Voldski]

Think if you're on official servers they're balanced forward group play, so bosses don't become too easy when you're more players. If you're playing private you can adjust difficulty and you should be fine.

[TheS1X]

My lil bro defeated all bosses so fast and there were plenty of other people in our server who finished all this content less than a week. We went now on hard mode where bosses hit 2x. Still owning them, not sure about end bosses tho...

[DeathMetalViking]

I have more trouble with the controls than I do with the actual bosses. My biggest problem is having the attacks and the movement controls right next to each other. I have a gaming mouse but for some reason the game isn't recognizing some buttons even thought it lets me program them in the options. Once you get a good spell combo you really love it's not so bad. It's just dodging and shooting.

[theworld]

Jay and Silent Rob a écrit :

I do not have most of the options the player in the video has. I don't have as many abilities because of the terrible ability gating. The abilities I do have are also not as good.

Yes, you either do have them or they are within your immediate reach.

Let's start with what you don't have:

1)"E" on axes is not a great skill, so can be ignored.

2)The Ultimate he's using is a good one, but is not required, I've used a different one for this boss, not to mention it's one time only per fight.

The rest of his skills that you might not have yet:

1)Frost Dash, obtained from Vincent the Frostbringer, 40 level boss, lower than Christina. Ward of the Damned from Nicholaus the Fallen (a 37 level boss) works very well against him. But he's not that hard to just kite around, just start the fight when there is a big rock nearby and run around it, using Chaos Volley and a Crossbow's Q.

2)Sanguine Coil, obtained from Meredith whom you should have seen in the mines. Although she is 52, she is the easiest boss in the 40s & 50s, because you can lure her to fight the Undead Commander, or you might even see it occur naturally. Only her adds are beefy, but you can waste the dash on them, since boss' attacks can be evaded without it.

So, again, in the early game the bosses don't generally allow for a back-and-forth. Because the player is incredibly gimped by lack of access to good abilities while most bosses after level 30 are stacked with them.

You don't even need those. A horse and a basic attack can defeat both Quincey and the Bear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9IIBE1hhkY

Meanwhile, the slog that is traveling in this game, including the regular daytime period where you're forced to stop playing and hide in the shade, destroy any motivation to go do things. In every other open world game based on exploration and gathering resources and improving your character and your base, you're driven to leave your base by the desire to explore the world and see new characters and environments and resources.

Use horses (find a good one: 10+ Speed and 13+ Rotation) and the Vampire Waygate, available after Polora the Feywalker (it's in the Exterior building tab). Endgame has the Bat form and a permanent speed buff. Neutral horses can be slain for a water canteen if you can't be bothered to craft them.

but it's taking forever to smelt enough iron to make anything.

That's why you make 4-6 furnaces in an enclosed Castle room with Forge floor tiles.

[jkr000]

Jay and Silent Rob a écrit :

Making bosses HP sponges is bad game design.
Making bosses hit like trucks is bad game design.
Giving bosses no weaknesses is bad game design.

Wait til you encounter Beatrice the Tailor! Oh man...

That said, I believe you've made up your mind about the encounter and that you'll just double down on it the more players try to tell you otherwise. So there's no point in saying anymore other than to tell the Devs not to take you seriously at all.

As for the bear, my strat was using Veil of Chaos (obtain from Clive the Firestarter) and Chaos Volley (obtained for Lidia the Chaos Archer). Both bosses are before the bear so they are attainable. I really like that Veil of Chaos not only takes aggro off of me but it blows up in the bears face.

[Wild Guin]

Avallac a écrit :

Wow mad cuz bad. I can beat the bear boss hitless at level 20 with chaos valley and the starting counter. So can anyone with more than 2 braincells. One of the easiest bosses in the game once you know his attack pattern, can literally avoid every attack with dash and counter.

Seriously? I need to see that! Sounds impossible :O

[Rikito]

Virtually Wild a écrit :

Avallac a écrit :

Wow mad cuz bad. I can beat the bear boss hitless at level 20 with chaos valley and the starting counter. So can anyone with more than 2 braincells. One of the easiest bosses in the game once you know his attack pattern, can literally avoid every attack with dash and counter.

Seriously? I need to see that! Sounds impossible :O

Just walk backwards and dodge/counter when she catches up to you.

[MrButtermancer]

Fromsoft design practices are bleeding through. It's absolutely fantastic if you're in that crowd. I'm sure it sucks butt if you're a casual though. The Venn diagram for the playerbase of survival crafters and soulslikes is askew enough some people were definitely gonna get dumpstered here.

These bosses are, more than ANY bosses I've seen in this survival genre, the product of hardcore RPG design. They have attack patterns which can be anticipated. Audible and visual tells. They have threat windows where it's dangerous to do anything but wait for them to finish a combo, and they have punishable gaps where you can heal or counter. A lot of these bosses reward you for coming in with high quality blood and the appropriate potion loadout. ALL OF THAT is great, because it actually rewards you for interacting with those elements of the game. A HUGE number of games in this genre do not require you to actually take advantage of those things to proceed.

As a result, anybody approaching these bosses like they're just going to click them to death, or come in without a plan, or expect to win without using their skill bars, timing dodges correctly, not healing... is gonna have a bad time. I have beaten MOST of the bosses now solo, and I believe the people who say they can beat them almost naked. The boss mechanics and attacks are that clean; skill alone can get you that far. I'm personally quite happy this is the design direction being explored. It feels a lot more modern, and caters to the crowd that wants to learn to play a game like this WELL.