Have some RESPECT for Winterhome!

[New Londoner]

SPOILERS

As you start Chapter 4 there is a short video of controlled explosion on the slope of Winterhome with a devastating avalanche dislodging all the old ruins of the once city.
My point is that this is outrageous and disrespectful.
First of all is disrespect to the victims who left behind and out from the Dreadnought to die by the explosion of the Generator or freezing to death.
Disrespect for the susrvivors which now they live (if they do) in New London and as children they remember their home and this land and all the suffering from the old Captain of Order.
Disrespect for the new Captain of Winterhome who spent (we spent) a lot of time in FP1 to REBUILD this city ONLY to watching being doomed again. We rebuild that city piece by piece with a lot of patience! We took back the trust of winterhomers with a lot of effort only to leave our home for the unknown again!
And now what? Υou use explosives with violence to destroy what is left there?
Can't you just go there and pick up the pieces one by one respectfully with some automatons?
Don't take me wrong please. I love the lore and the thing that Winterhome is back but to treat the old city with explosion makes me sad and my memories are still there when i was trying to build again the City with good Faith.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3346959690

[Rolhn]

Erm, sorry to say this but get bent. Winterhome was a failure and we are getting rid of the failure so that our thriving and much more successful New London can survive. Maybe they shouldve dont better and not blew up their generator.

[adrien_perleflamme]

Besides, it's just a dead city. You can't hurt a dead city, even less than a dead body. Citizens of Winterhome would have preferred to survive, but survival of mankind is at least a consolation prize, which comes at the cost of making the city safer against past mistakes.

[adrien_perleflamme]

Or to put it differently, if you want to respect Winterhome and its deads, first, don't use them as a pretence to worsen the lives of others, even more so younger generations that could have been their children.

[SoloQ]

Wasn't Winterhome the place that tried to strong arm us and leave us to freeze to death when we didn't send them resources?
Why am I respecting them?

[HardNRG]

Winterhome survivors aren't in New London. Don't know why you think they are.

[New Londoner]

Originally posted by HardNRG:

Winterhome survivors aren't in New London. Don't know why you think they are.

At the end of Winterhome scenario in FP1 If you allow the scientists in the Frostlands (at the Storm Shelter) to continue their explorations until the Generator is almost about to explode, they find a trail to the south with smoke on the horizon that coming from the New London. Those who went to Dreadnought finally went to New London.

Originally posted by SoloQ:

Wasn't Winterhome the place that tried to strong arm us and leave us to freeze to death when we didn't send them resources?
Why am I respecting them?

Mistakes of the old Winterhome's Captain can't haunt us forever. Besides we proved that new Captain was better from him. We rebuild the city step by step.

Originally posted by adrien_perleflamme:

Or to put it differently, if you want to respect Winterhome and its deads, first, don't use them as a pretence to worsen the lives of others, even more so younger generations that could have been their children.

You have a reason for that for sure. My point was just to have some respect to the old ruins of the city. Using explosives to put down the whole area which we re-build step by step back in FP1 even if now it's a bunch of scrap metals is heartbreaking.

[Magni]

Respecting old ruins is a luxury that cannot be afforded by the colonisation effort.

[adrien_perleflamme]

Originally posted by Londoner:

Originally posted by HardNRG:

Winterhome survivors aren't in New London. Don't know why you think they are.

At the end of Winterhome scenario in FP1 If you allow the scientists in the Frostlands (at the Storm Shelter) to continue their explorations until the Generator is almost about to explode, they find a trail to the south with smoke on the horizon that coming from the New London. Those who went to Dreadnought finally went to New London. :stallwarts:

Originally posted by SoloQ:

Wasn't Winterhome the place that tried to strong arm us and leave us to freeze to death when we didn't send them resources?
Why am I respecting them?

Mistakes of the old Winterhome's Captain can't haunt us forever. Besides we proved that new Captain was better from him. We rebuild the city step by step.

Originally posted by adrien_perleflamme:

Or to put it differently, if you want to respect Winterhome and its deads, first, don't use them as a pretence to worsen the lives of others, even more so younger generations that could have been their children.

You have a reason for that for sure. My point was just to have some respect to the old ruins of the city. Using explosives to put down the whole area which we re-build step by step back in FP1 even if now it's a bunch of scrap metals is heartbreaking.

You mean more heartbreaking than the consequences of not dealing with Winterhome problems (notably all its toxic fumes) and making it impossible to colonize it to make for a less fragile future for mankind? I mean, do you have more feelings for ruins than for living beings and dead people? Rather than heartbroken, I'd rather say heartless, but sure, whatever.

[New Londoner]

Originally posted by adrien_perleflamme:

You mean more heartbreaking than the consequences of not dealing with Winterhome problems (notably all its toxic fumes) and making it impossible to colonize it to make for a less fragile future for mankind? I mean, do you have more feelings for ruins than for living beings and dead people? Rather than heartbroken, I'd rather say heartless, but sure, whatever.

Definitely no. I'm just saying to not use such explosives to the old city to cause avalanches. There are dead people down there together with their memories. With automatons could be possible to clean the old core parts to Generator area. Lol you can't even say that is heartless, i did everything for Winterhome in FP1 to save as many people was possible and to put them to Dreadnought, even to make hundress of prostetics for those who were unable to move and to put them inside. I decided to settle Winterhome in FP2 and broke my good relationship with Stallwarts Stallwarts: just because i want a better future for them.

[adrien_perleflamme]

Originally posted by Londoner:

Originally posted by adrien_perleflamme:

Definitely no. I'm just saying to not use such explosives to the old city to cause avalanches. There are dead people down there together with their memories. With automatons :automatons: could be possible to clean the old core parts to Generator area. Lol you can't even say that is heartless, i did everything for Winterhome in FP1 to save as many people was possible and to put them to Dreadnought, even to make hundress of prostetics :prothesis: for those who were unable to move and to put them inside. I decided to settle Winterhome in FP2 and broke my good relationship with Stallwarts Stallwarts: just because i want a better future for them.

On what ground avalanches hurt dead people and their memories rather than respect them by ensuring quick enough recolonization of the place they wanted to see thrive? When you want to honour the dead, you first don't go against their desires and goals. Otherwise, it's called betraying, not honouring.

[WolfHound]

Originally posted by Rolhn:

Erm, sorry to say this but get bent. Winterhome was a failure and we are getting rid of the failure so that our thriving and much more successful New London can survive. Maybe they shouldve dont better and not blew up their generator.

They blew up the generator but when we find it its still working...

[New Londoner]

Originally posted by adrien_perleflamme:

On what ground avalanches hurt dead people and their memories rather than respect them by ensuring quick enough recolonization of the place they wanted to see thrive? When you want to honour the dead, you first don't go against their desires and goals. Otherwise, it's called betraying, not honouring.

I'll put it another way, Can you destroy an archaeological site underground just to build a Metro tube? (for example, the Metro of Athens and Rome, where during their construction, valuable ancient monuments were destroyed below ground only so that the subway could pass more easy. Is that the right thing to do? No. But it happens right?
However, I'm not saying that Winterhome is ''archeological'' place such we are in 1930 when we decided to colonize Winterhome again. i'm saying that there are things that we have to respect. To do our work with respect. New London need some cores? That's totally fine! They gonna have it on time. Let them wait a bit more and accept some Pilgrim's ideas.
And i'm saying again: They have automatons. They could just clean the city without explosives which propably have make toxic gases worse than before!

[HardNRG]

Originally posted by New Londoner:

Originally posted by HardNRG:

Winterhome survivors aren't in New London. Don't know why you think they are.

At the end of Winterhome scenario in FP1 If you allow the scientists in the Frostlands (at the Storm Shelter) to continue their explorations until the Generator is almost about to explode, they find a trail to the south with smoke on the horizon that coming from the New London. Those who went to Dreadnought finally went to New London. :stallwarts:

Originally posted by SoloQ:

Wasn't Winterhome the place that tried to strong arm us and leave us to freeze to death when we didn't send them resources?
Why am I respecting them?

Mistakes of the old Winterhome's Captain can't haunt us forever. Besides we proved that new Captain was better from him. We rebuild the city step by step.

Originally posted by adrien_perleflamme:

Or to put it differently, if you want to respect Winterhome and its deads, first, don't use them as a pretence to worsen the lives of others, even more so younger generations that could have been their children.

You have a reason for that for sure. My point was just to have some respect to the old ruins of the city. Using explosives to put down the whole area which we re-build step by step back in FP1 even if now it's a bunch of scrap metals is heartbreaking.

Only 1 scout arrives at New London alive.

The Dreadnought is not known about yet. It never came to New London, still don't know why you think they did. The Wanderers from Prologue might be the Winterhome exiles, but not really sure if they actually are. None of them come to live in New London neither tho. So still not sure what you on about. Stop spatting your headcanon here.

[adrien_perleflamme]

Originally posted by New Londoner:

Originally posted by adrien_perleflamme:

On what ground avalanches hurt dead people and their memories rather than respect them by ensuring quick enough recolonization of the place they wanted to see thrive? When you want to honour the dead, you first don't go against their desires and goals. Otherwise, it's called betraying, not honouring.

I'll put it another way, Can you destroy an archaeological site underground just to build a Metro tube? (for example, the Metro of Athens and Rome, where during their construction, valuable ancient monuments were destroyed below ground only so that the subway could pass more easy. Is that the right thing to do? No. But it happens right?
However, I'm not saying that Winterhome is ''archeological'' place such we are in 1930 when we decided to colonize Winterhome again. i'm saying that there are things that we have to respect. To do our work with respect. New London need some cores? That's totally fine! They gonna have it on time. Let them wait a bit more and accept some Pilgrim's :pilgrims: ideas.
And i'm saying again: They have automatons. :automatons: They could just clean the city without explosives which propably have make toxic gases worse than before!

You're confusing archaeology with respect for the dead, here. Archaeology has never been about respecting the dead. In Athens and Rome, preserving archaeological sites helps understand a very old and otherwise hard to reach history we're trying to study. This has nothing to do with 30-year-old sites that are left abandoned or encountered a tragic accident, even more so when we very much know what happened there and are precisely trying to prevent it from doing even more harm.

They have automatons, sure, but it seems they can't really use them for literally anything. I mean, if they really had automatons, I'd use them to fully automate entire industries so that these buildings don't need to be heated at all, just like in FP1. But it seems automatons have been toned down a bit (maybe because they realized there were problems in letting them unattended) and can't do such kinds of work and now require constant supervision and human presence. Technically, you already have the help of machines in Winterhome cleaning, if you want to do so, but even then, it still requires humans being there and getting harmed by toxic fumes.

And I'm still struggling with the kind of respect you're talking about. To me, it's more disrespect than it is respect. There are people who would be pissed to be used as an excuse to make the lives of others more miserable, even if it's just to artificially delay an improvement of their lives.

[New Londoner]

Yeah obviously we can't compare these two. We are just 30 year's after and nothing archeologically there. (However you can't say that things of Indrustial Revolution buildings period or even later are not historical and are not protected from Unesco, look for example Hamburg city etc) Yeah automatons are not for everywhere just like the frostbreaking machines thats why we use the slow one, however i'm still try to figure it out why explosives, i mean hell yeah.. Stallwarts dosen't seem to really care of Winterhome or what happened there same with Faithkeepers. So their thinking is just ''ok lets blow it up and take what we can''. I mean wtf? If New London's needs are so rushed then fine I understand it. (they cannot even take the full cores from Winterhome that they need btw).

Originally posted by HardNRG:

The Dreadnought is not known about yet. It never came to New London, still don't know why you think they did. The Wanderers from Prologue might be the Winterhome exiles, but not really sure if they actually are. None of them come to live in New London neither tho. So still not sure what you on about. Stop spatting your headcanon here.

I thought at least half of them they went to New London after they found the smoke but with a quick research back to lore yeah you have right. Dreadnought was never arrived in New London after all lol. Well, lets hope we gonna find it soon.