Frostpunk 2

Frostpunk 2

View Stats:
Detahramet Sep 24, 2024 @ 8:08pm
Pleasure Common/Clubs Censorship
So, like, were these originally intended to be brothels? The event text following building them is a bit ambiguous about it, but definitely seems to lean that way, but the description text seems to imply that they're essentially rec centers.

The way this reads to me is that they were originally intended as FP2's equivalent to the House of Pleasure, but changed this to help with age rating. It doesn't hurt anything, and I'm not complaining, just curious.
< >
Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
I think the Pleasure Club is obviously a brothel. The Pleasure Commons is considered a radical idea because, well... this is a really rough society with very little in the ways of luxury and you're proposing a free, state-subsidized family entertainment complex. What are you, some kinda socialist?
Landlocked Sep 24, 2024 @ 9:32pm 
They are probably brothels. The story text popup for them is about some guy 'being able to afford' Bertha. "She knows how to take care of me." Also if it isn't, why is it filed under 'Radical Ideas'? Sort of an odd obfuscation to add considering one of the other proposals is actually opiates for workers. Maybe it's one of those storytelling things where 'it could be anything' and people fill in what they want to.
MeowMaster Sep 24, 2024 @ 9:40pm 
they're brothels. the events that pop up relating to them are relating to prostitution.
Harris Sep 24, 2024 @ 9:49pm 
Obviously a brothel, yeah. Either something to do with the age rating or perhaps the desire not to be offensive?

On the Equality side of things it's basically implementation of an early Bolshevik idea that women should be shared and belong to everyone (the entire Equality zeitgeist is basically Soviet Union of the 1920s). State sponsoring your ability to get laid is pretty wild, right. And on the Merit side it's commodifying women by creating a dating site/-fans kind of thing, where they get to use their body/looks as a social elevator - meaning even more inequality between girls who are pretty and who are not, and between guys who can afford them and who cannot.
Last edited by Harris; Sep 24, 2024 @ 9:53pm
Originally posted by Harris:
Obviously a brothel, yeah. Either something to do with the age rating or perhaps the desire not to be offensive?

On the Equality side of things it’s basically implementation of an early Bolshevik idea that women should be shared and belong to everyone (the entire Equality zeitgeist is basically Soviet Union of the 1920s). State sponsoring your ability to get laid is pretty wild, right. And on the Merit side it’s commodifying women by creating a dating site/-fans kind of thing, where they get to use their body/looks as a social elevator - meaning even more inequality between girls who are pretty and who are not, and between guys who can afford them and who cannot.

This is inaccurate AFAIK (unless you have sources on shared wives, which I’d be very interested to read– Marx was very much a wife guy). Instead, the more radical ideas of the Bolsheviks involved abolishing the nuclear/bourgeoisie family and related shifts like communally raising children, communally performing housework, communal meals and holidays and vacations, etc, most of which you can do in game.

While they disliked liberal feminism–which they saw as bourgeoisie–they were revolutionary feminists. They didn’t want to abolish monogamy or establish that women “belong to everyone”, they wanted to abolish gender roles altogether. The Stalinists of course quickly won out and that mostly went by the wayside.

I think you’re overthinking the Pleasure Club. It’s a brothel for the wealthy, giving them more privilege, superiority, power and subjugation over their social “lessers”. It’s just classic misanthropic fat cat stuff.

If you’ve played Utopia mode with the Merchants on, their demands are maybe the most unreasonable of any faction (even Lords) because they exclusively care about Merit. Merit continually raises social stratification/tension in the city which requires repression to handle. Yes, it does increase production efficiency, but at the cost of a meaner and uglier society.

Equality policies tend to be more palatable from our modern perspective (which isn’t the timeframe of the game, obviously) and at least in the early to midgame are fairer. They tend to have more positive effects, but at a significant opportunity cost – they require a lot of heat, materials, and heatstamps to maintain. Equality doesn’t really go overboard until the late game, when all factions do.
Last edited by xxx_420_Bad_Boy [Wizard_Cum]; Sep 25, 2024 @ 12:48pm
Harris Sep 25, 2024 @ 2:59pm 
Originally posted by dinglebop jones:
This is inaccurate AFAIK

Of course they never done it on a state level, but there were a few cases of local-level authorities (and I'm using authorities loosely, it's 1918) performing some sort of "nationalization" of women - small-time abuse of power to get laid; a decree that was never recognized or enforced, that sort of thing. That however was enough to get attention from the newspaper and the West and it ended up being a cool myth - exactly of the caliber that would inspire a nod in a videogame. So yeah, just an idea some people definitely entertained at the time.

Originally posted by dinglebop jones:
I think you’re overthinking the Pleasure Club.

Nah, I mean, I'm going by the event we get in game, a girl working there treating the patrons as simps basically. Not really the intention, but then again we get events for every law that show how laws end up working very differently than envisioned.

Originally posted by dinglebop jones:
Equality policies ... tend to have more positive effects, but at a significant opportunity cost – they require a lot of heat, materials, and heatstamps to maintain. Equality doesn’t really go overboard until the late game, when all factions do.

I feel policies kinda go in reverse there - you don't give people free stuff until you actually have stuff to give. So while Equality cripples your economy in the early game, in the late game it's simply the most powerful zeitgeist, with Merit not even close. Like even if you spam the whole map with Pleasure Clubs (with all the heat costs that entails) you won't be making the kind of money you get through Levelling and alcohol. Being able to fully negate hunger from 100k+ population with 10+ food hoarding inspectorates is just a cherry on top.
Avallac Sep 25, 2024 @ 3:33pm 
Originally posted by Harris:
Originally posted by dinglebop jones:
This is inaccurate AFAIK

Of course they never done it on a state level, but there were a few cases of local-level authorities (and I'm using authorities loosely, it's 1918) performing some sort of "nationalization" of women - small-time abuse of power to get laid; a decree that was never recognized or enforced, that sort of thing. That however was enough to get attention from the newspaper and the West and it ended up being a cool myth - exactly of the caliber that would inspire a nod in a videogame. So yeah, just an idea some people definitely entertained at the time.
Sounds like red scare propaganda. Women had equal rights from day 1 of the revolution, forcing a woman (or anyone) into sex work was immediately illegal. What you are referring to is some very early and brief remnants of the imperial regime where ~97% of the population were slaves and there was no such concept as rape or forced sex work for slaves (serfs), it was a given.
You should not get your info from propagandapedia. Last time I read anything about the soviet union there, they claimed lenin wrote some letter to massacre prostitutes or something, the "reference" did lead to that "letter" except I speak flawless Russian and guess what? Whoever wrote that letter used prompt or some other trash software from 20 years ago because even google translate would have done a better job immitating russian lmao. Its like lenin didn't speak russian at all, it was hilarious. The rest of the english version of "wiki"pedia in regards to soviets and a lot of other topics is not any better. Just Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V of even the most cringe cold war fantasies.
Literally everyone from a young age had to read carl marx, who explicitly stated prostitution is one of the greatest horrors of capitalism and prostitutes some of the biggest victims.
Last edited by Avallac; Sep 25, 2024 @ 3:34pm
Harris Sep 25, 2024 @ 5:04pm 
Originally posted by Avallac:
Sounds like red scare propaganda.

It indeed WAS the red scare propaganda in the West, does not change how there were individual local incidents that laid ample foundation to the myth for 11 bit to work with.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/45325518
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/20/russia.nickpatonwalsh
(text of the decree here: https://www.gumer.info/bibliotek_Buks/History/Article/dekr_obotm.php)

another good read since you speak flawless Russian: https://provereno.media/blog/2021/11/11/pravda-li-chto-posle-revolyucii-bolsheviki-popytalis-obobshestvit-zhenshin/

§ 7. Граждане мущины имеють право пользоваться женщиной не чаще четырехъ разъ за неделю и не более 3-хь часовъ при соблюденiи условiй указанныхъ ниже.

Now recall the announcer in the game asking not to use the pleasure commons longer than one hour because others are waiting, and you can see how this might be exactly where they drew inspiration from.
Never thought I'd see the day someone cited Jstor on Steam forums!
Avallac Sep 25, 2024 @ 8:06pm 
Originally posted by Harris:
Originally posted by Avallac:
Sounds like red scare propaganda.

It indeed WAS the red scare propaganda in the West, does not change how there were individual local incidents that laid ample foundation to the myth for 11 bit to work with.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/45325518
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/20/russia.nickpatonwalsh
(text of the decree here: https://www.gumer.info/bibliotek_Buks/History/Article/dekr_obotm.php)

another good read since you speak flawless Russian: https://provereno.media/blog/2021/11/11/pravda-li-chto-posle-revolyucii-bolsheviki-popytalis-obobshestvit-zhenshin/

§ 7. Граждане мущины имеють право пользоваться женщиной не чаще четырехъ разъ за неделю и не более 3-хь часовъ при соблюденiи условiй указанныхъ ниже.

Now recall the announcer in the game asking not to use the pleasure commons longer than one hour because others are waiting, and you can see how this might be exactly where they drew inspiration from.
Dude, your own link from provereno describes in detail with proof how what you said is made up and fake and how and when that appeared and spread to the west. LOL. That quote at the bottom is in "ancient" or old imperial russian that only old imperial laws were written in.
I even looked at those fakes myself and immediately noticed what was wrong.
One of the sources of those fakes is a random post on a site similar to something like pastebin where someone is making wild claims and telling a deranged story of "secret ussr history" only he knows. Cool story bro. The fake "pictures" of some newspaper article out of nowhere are also hilarious ridiculous. Just look at how many roubles they mention in terms of what it cost to use a woman or the reward for giving birth. 1000 monthly(!!!) LOL. 1000 back then was like a million dollars and this is supposedly from 1918.
Pre-revolution salary (~1917) was 37 roubles for a free worker (idk what high tier jobs they even did as most labour was done for free by slaves). Even by 1960 the average monthly salary was only 80 roubles. This is such a cheap fake they didn't even bother to make it look realistic. 1k roubles a month, omegalul.
There are also grammatical errors in their quotes of those made up "laws" which would never make it into a real law anywhere in ussr. The clown fakes maker doesn't even cite a source on that, it actually has the same errors as a book a member of a certain religion wrote about ussr which is completely made up where that lenins fake letter to genocide prostitutes came from and has the same broken grammar of someone who doesn't even know Russian and seems to have just translated individual words while holding the vocabulary not even bother to learn proper sentence structure, word order and some elementary grammatical rules that anyone who speaks russian automatically knows.

Literally just read your own link haha
https://provereno.media/blog/2021/11/11/pravda-li-chto-posle-revolyucii-bolsheviki-popytalis-obobshestvit-zhenshin/
Use google transale, it works well enough so you can enlighten yourself from your own link. I couldn't believe it at first when I read it that you somehow linked something that debunks your own claims in detail, that's really funny.


The brothels in fp2 are clearly a reference to capitalism, just like a lot of evolvers policies. The event about shop owner that started buying out shops and jacking prices from pushing "merit" and so on.

P.S. I can't believe it. You didn't even read your own english links either. The guardian literally debunks most of what you said and the first "book" (that might be the one I mentioned before where the fake lenin letters came from, lol). Only thing the guardian got wrong is the last paragraph that starts with this "A bullet in the back of the head and an icy forest grave for those of you who can't guess what happened next."
What happened is that investigation concluded that the complaint lenin received about one of these fake decrees being put in place was made up, the complainers whom the complaint was supposedly authored from, 2 of them lived in a completely different city and did not send any complaints and the last one could not be found and nobody even heard the name anywhere. Obviously no such decree (that was used in 1917 to smear the revolutionaries by local monarchists in one specific town) was ever put in place anywhere and certainly not in the location claimed in the fake (prank?) complaint.
Last edited by Avallac; Sep 25, 2024 @ 8:36pm
< >
Showing 1-10 of 10 comments
Per page: 1530 50

Date Posted: Sep 24, 2024 @ 8:08pm
Posts: 10