Ghost wants me to make a holy oracle tree hybrid

[wildbill]

I searched in these forums, more than once, still makes no sense. Seems optional, so I'm skipping this for now.

[Inkjet]

This is a crossbreeding quest, so you'll need to plant two other types of Oracle Tree close to each other. Once they are full grown and begin producing seeds, there is a chance those seeds will be a hybrid.

For the Holy Oracle tree, you'll need to combine Ancient Oracle and Grove Oracle trees.

Hope this helps!
Jennifer

[wildbill]

Originally posted by Inkjet:

This is a crossbreeding quest, so you'll need to plant two other types of Oracle Tree close to each other. Once they are full grown and begin producing seeds, there is a chance those seeds will be a hybrid.

For the Holy Oracle tree, you'll need to combine Ancient Oracle and Grove Oracle trees.

Hope this helps!
Jennifer

Thanks. Yes, I think I'm just skipping this for now. Even the wiki that exists doesn't want to tackle describing this. It only says: "Some plants can be crossbreed with other varieties to create new variants."

In my opinion, this is too poorly documented and takes way too long to figure out how it works. Never seen a game where you grow something that takes over 100 in game hours (so maybe 1 to 2 real hours, and then maybe you have a chance of it doing what you want, or maybe you will just pick the wrong two things, or not close enough (normally they don't want to be close to each other).

Even if the tip told me which two plants, I'm still not sure just how close is close and how long I'd need to wait. I suspect I'm just 5 hours or so from end game, so it might take longer than I plan to continue playing.

[dj8472]

Originally posted by wildbill:

Thanks. Yes, I think I'm just skipping this for now. Even the wiki that exists doesn't want to tackle describing this. It only says: "Some plants can be crossbreed with other varieties to create new variants."

Don't use the fandom wiki, use this one instead
https://wildmender.miraheze.org

https://wildmender.miraheze.org/wiki/Oracle_Tree

[Sunny]

Maybe it would be helpful for a tutorial quest to be added to the other tutorials for this system. I discovered the mechanic naturally through playing early on, by planting a bunch of different colored flowers together, but I can see how somebody might just not do something that triggers it.

[wildbill]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Maybe it would be helpful for a tutorial quest to be added to the other tutorials for this system. I discovered the mechanic naturally through playing early on, by planting a bunch of different colored flowers together, but I can see how somebody might just not do something that triggers it.

Also consider that the frogs pick up the seeds. So finding a new seed in a frog doesn't really tell you much about where it came from.

I doubt a tutorial could explain this. I think it is a bit too obscure. You do get quests, but they say absolutely nothing about how to create a hybrid, just that you should create one. So all they do is let you know it is possible, but zero information on how a hybrid is made.

I did randomly create one, but the frog found it, so no idea what even created it. I honestly don't even see the point to creating a hybrid, except maybe it is an achievement?

[Sunny]

Originally posted by wildbill:

I doubt a tutorial could explain this. I think it is a bit too obscure. You do get quests, but they say absolutely nothing about how to create a hybrid, just that you should create one. So all they do is let you know it is possible, but zero information on how a hybrid is made.

I don't--what, huh? How on earth do you reach the conclusion that a tutorial couldn't explain it? If I could figure it out without it, how would a quest that told you exactly what to do and how to do it *not* explain? That's my point: they should add this to that, like they do with the spirit finder thing or the water manipulation.

Plant white flower. Plant red flower. Spirit guy says 'no no, closer than that' if you plant them too far apart for it to work. Wait until you get pink seed. Plant pink seed. Bam, tutorial done, you understand how to do it, everyone wins. That would demonstrate what 'near' means and how long you'll have to wait (it isn't long--you can actually see this info in the plant info screen), too.

Does tutorial mean something different to you?

Originally posted by wildbill:

I honestly don't even see the point to creating a hybrid, except maybe it is an achievement?

it's part of what the game is about on the premise level. mending the wild. growing a garden. Doing flower hybrid stuff has been my favorite part of the game so far. ^^ I love my lil pretty garden (or I would if I could stop starting over like I keep spawning in the ocean in minecraft).

PERSONALLY, part of the fun of this kind of game for me is exploration -- that doesn't just mean the map, but the world and mechanics and how pieces fit together, too. I would prefer this sort of tutorial *not* be included for my own enjoyment (and that the others weren't, also, sigh), but for accessibility's sake I think it's probably a good idea. Not everyone runs around pushing all of the buttons they can just to see what they do (so to speak). Some folks are actually pretty scared of that.

[wildbill]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by wildbill:

I doubt a tutorial could explain this. I think it is a bit too obscure. You do get quests, but they say absolutely nothing about how to create a hybrid, just that you should create one. So all they do is let you know it is possible, but zero information on how a hybrid is made.

I don't--what, huh? How on earth do you reach the conclusion that a tutorial couldn't explain it? If I could figure it out without it, how would a quest that told you exactly what to do and how to do it *not* explain? That's my point: they should add this to that, like they do with the spirit finder thing or the water manipulation.

Plant white flower. Plant red flower. Spirit guy says 'no no, closer than that' if you plant them too far apart for it to work. Wait until you get pink seed. Plant pink seed. Bam, tutorial done, you understand how to do it, everyone wins. That would demonstrate what 'near' means and how long you'll have to wait (it isn't long--you can actually see this info in the plant info screen), too.

Does tutorial mean something different to you?

Originally posted by wildbill:

I honestly don't even see the point to creating a hybrid, except maybe it is an achievement?

it's part of what the game is about on the premise level. mending the wild. growing a garden. Doing flower hybrid stuff has been my favorite part of the game so far. ^^ I love my lil pretty garden (or I would if I could stop starting over like I keep spawning in the ocean in minecraft).

PERSONALLY, part of the fun of this kind of game for me is exploration -- that doesn't just mean the map, but the world and mechanics and how pieces fit together, too. I would prefer this sort of tutorial *not* be included for my own enjoyment (and that the others weren't, also, sigh), but for accessibility's sake I think it's probably a good idea. Not everyone runs around pushing all of the buttons they can just to see what they do (so to speak). Some folks are actually pretty scared of that.

Well it isn't that I don't push the buttons, but I tend to go for the end game, and finding and making the hybrids would normally end up being past end game, where I've already stopped playing that game, and started over with a new random game for Wildmender.

None of the tutorials in this game are as detailed as you describe. There are also apparently a lot of hybrids. Too much to cover in a tutorial. Really, they have just made this feature too complicated for many people to use it. Great that you like it, but I don't like puzzles this complicated and obscure.

Just seems like they could be easier to discover. Just something simple, like when you place a plant of a different variety next to another of that type, it shows you what hybrid is the outcome.

BTW, most games don't make hybrids (well at least most mods) be something you create in this manner. There would be a crafting bench of some sort. Maybe put two seeds in and then create the hybrid from those and then plant the hybrid seed.

The hybrids are apparently a great feature for people that like to play the game out all the way, so maybe like 100 hours on a single game. I play about 30 hours and then start a new one.

[Sunny]

I suspect there may be a mismach of personal preference and game premise here, unfortunately. This is a meandering sort of game at its most basic level.

Not that you're playing the game wrong? Playing it however you want is (obviously!) fine, but I don't think you'll be particularly satisfied with things like this.

The game isn't broken, there's just parts that aren't to your tastes, and expecting them to be changed to suit your personal tastes rather than leaving them there for people who play the meandering game in a meandering way...is not really a fair expectation.

The exploration of stuff like the hybrid plants is supposed to be part of the fun. Discovery is what happens when they don't tell you exactly how to do it and you find out anyway. Very, very few games include a discovery mechanic any more. It's really nice to have found one. Having to experiment is a *feature* of this type of game.

Fair? Ask to have a quest to explain better how it currently is. Unfair? Asking to have a foundation mechanic changed that other people are enjoying. Putting this into a crafting table would *ruin* it. Totally ruin it.

[wildbill]

Originally posted by Sunny:

I suspect there may be a mismach of personal preference and game premise here, unfortunately. This is a meandering sort of game at its most basic level.

Not that you're playing the game wrong? Playing it however you want is (obviously!) fine, but I don't think you'll be particularly satisfied with things like this.

The game isn't broken, there's just parts that aren't to your tastes, and expecting them to be changed to suit your personal tastes rather than leaving them there for people who play the meandering game in a meandering way...is not really a fair expectation.

The exploration of stuff like the hybrid plants is supposed to be part of the fun. Discovery is what happens when they don't tell you exactly how to do it and you find out anyway. Very, very few games include a discovery mechanic any more. It's really nice to have found one. Having to experiment is a *feature* of this type of game.

Fair? Ask to have a quest to explain better how it currently is. Unfair? Asking to have a foundation mechanic changed that other people are enjoying. Putting this into a crafting table would *ruin* it. Totally ruin it.

Ya, I get that some like it and wouldn't if it was changed. Seems they do eventually unlock a feature that makes it a tiny bit easier.

I probably wouldn't have even posted here if I'd found a decent wiki. There is one, that is fairly good, but I didn't find it before posting here. So at least my post uncovered a wiki to help with this.

I did say that the hybrid feature doesn't seem to be essential to reaching end game and I likely would not use it. I'm fine with that.

If I was going to use the hybrid feature, I would want a mod that makes it easier, but doubt there are any for this game. That is the great thing about mods. You can make the game more to your liking without changing the game for other players.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by wildbill:

I did say that the hybrid feature doesn't seem to be essential to reaching end game and I likely would not use it. I'm fine with that.

Okay, cool. I'm totally on board with it being explained better.

I don't think there are likely to be mods for the game, no. It's way too niche, alas. It wouldn't even be worth the time for somebody to put together a modloader. ^^ (Forge, Fabric, SMAPI, SKSE, Frosty, and so on.)

It looks like it runs on Unity, so you could probably pay the people who put the UnityModLoader together to get it working, but that's the only way I see it happening.

[wildbill]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by wildbill:

I did say that the hybrid feature doesn't seem to be essential to reaching end game and I likely would not use it. I'm fine with that.

Okay, cool. I'm totally on board with it being explained better.

I don't think there are likely to be mods for the game, no. It's way too niche, alas. It wouldn't even be worth the time for somebody to put together a modloader. ^^ (Forge, Fabric, SMAPI, SKSE, Frosty, and so on.)

It looks like it runs on Unity, so you could probably pay the people who put the UnityModLoader together to get it working, but that's the only way I see it happening.

I've written a few mods for Minecraft, but found it a bit frustrating to mod a game that doesn't have built in modding support. Always trying to work around limitations and having to use some very advanced Java features (well too advanced for my programming skills).

If the game had modding support, I'd be tempted to see what I could do, but not writing mods for a game where the devs don't support modding.

I do find it interesting and a bit frustrating, that I'm on my 3rd game now (at 94 hours of game time), I'm still finding features of the game that I didn't know about. Nothing really wrong with that, but does show how hard it is to learn everything about this game. Each play through goes a bit smoother and quicker in some ways. Like I know I need a ton of acorns, so plan for that ahead of time.

[Sunny]

Well, C# is a little more involved than Java, anyway.

Originally posted by wildbill:

I do find it interesting and a bit frustrating, that I'm on my 3rd game now (at 94 hours of game time), I'm still finding features of the game that I didn't know about. Nothing really wrong with that, but does show how hard it is to learn everything about this game. Each play through goes a bit smoother and quicker in some ways. Like I know I need a ton of acorns, so plan for that ahead of time.

Yeah, this is why I was mentioning a premise and preference conflict. This discovery process you're talking about right here is one of the biggest selling points of the game. It's dopamine hit after dopamine hit for folks who cannot find this style of game any more. Most games explain endlessly, there's never anything to figure out on your own.

[wildbill]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Well, C# is a little more involved than Java, anyway.

Originally posted by wildbill:

I do find it interesting and a bit frustrating, that I'm on my 3rd game now (at 94 hours of game time), I'm still finding features of the game that I didn't know about. Nothing really wrong with that, but does show how hard it is to learn everything about this game. Each play through goes a bit smoother and quicker in some ways. Like I know I need a ton of acorns, so plan for that ahead of time.

Yeah, this is why I was mentioning a premise and preference conflict. This discovery process you're talking about right here is one of the biggest selling points of the game. It's dopamine hit after dopamine hit for folks who cannot find this style of game any more. Most games explain endlessly, there's never anything to figure out on your own.

It may be its biggest selling point and also the main reason it is not a huge hit. Apparently there are more folks like me that don't want to spend hours discovering how stuff works and less like you. But still, a fun game even though I prefer looking up the answers instead of figuring them out.

But really, it could work for both of us. If there was only a decent and maybe even an official wiki. You could just never look in the wiki and I could look stuff up and we would both be happy with the game

[Sunny]

hat eating time for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~~

rofl. so I had to come back to this after I've gotten a little further

the quests totally already exist, and they all list out exactly which plants are required to make the hybrid in question (it's at the bottom of the quest in the questlog/journal)

AND

there is also an ability able to be unlocked that makes the hybrids directly, like you were hoping for. I haven't actually gotten it yet but I moused over it and saw it and was like 'oh'.

dev so nice for not making us feel silly. >.> veterans, too.

thanks peoples. I am a perpetual noob.

[wildbill]

Originally posted by Sunny:

hat eating time for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee~~

rofl. so I had to come back to this after I've gotten a little further

the quests totally already exist, and they all list out exactly which plants are required to make the hybrid in question (it's at the bottom of the quest in the questlog/journal)

AND

there is also an ability able to be unlocked that makes the hybrids directly, like you were hoping for. I haven't actually gotten it yet but I moused over it and saw it and was like 'oh'.

dev so nice for not making us feel silly. >.> veterans, too.

thanks peoples. I am a perpetual noob.

I'm not actually playing anymore, but ya, got that ability to unlock hybrids directly once. Not sure if I ever got the quest, I don't recall. Never did find anything in game that says which plants make which hybrid, but did find a wiki about it. Never purposely made a single hybrid, but like I said, it doesn't seem to be an essential part of the game anyway.