Rubberbanding AI is completely insane in FH5 compared to FH4

[Krosis]

I've been playing the game for a little over 10 hrs now, while having sunk probably over 500 hrs into FH4 (through the windows store). And bloody hell what did they do to the AI. I know the AI already had comical levels of grip and acceleration in FH4, but in FH5 it's just completely nuts. And this becomes more and more obvious the higher class car you use.

In FH4 I found S1 class to be the most fun and balanced class to use and could win races easily on pro difficulty, and depending on the circuit even on unbeatable. But in FH5 however, I can't even keep up on expert difficulty, as the AI cars just rocket away on the start line and proceed to corner with impossible amounts of grip. On top of that, they always seem to have like a 60 mph higher top speed which they reach in an instant.

The only class which I find to be enjoyable and somewhat balanced right now is A(800). As I can gain enough on the AI in the corners to usually win by the end of the race. But even on A class, the AI cars accelerate like rocketships and always seem to be impossibly fast for their car rating.

Now having played sim racing games through all of my life, I dare to say that I know what I'm doing when it comes to adjusting the geometry, suspension and gearing. So I know my tuning is not at fault here.

This has to be fixed somehow because S1 class and above are completely unenjoyable in this state.

Edit:
For anyone saying oh you're just bad at the game. Being top 1% (5337th out of 1.000.000+ players) in the monthly rivals after a few laps should be good enough right?

(03-12-2021) Update:
So I tried the game out for a couple of hours now after the latest update, and I do seem to notice some changes (or maybe it's placebo effect). Seems like on some races the AI seems to be a bit toned down, and quite beatable even on the unbeatable difficulty now. I noticed that the massive acceleration boost at the start of the race seems to be less severe, as I am now launching at a similar speed. However, the top 3 cars will still gain a massive lead on the rest of the pack, and I often find myself only being able to overtake the leader near the final corners of the race on short races.

I think it differs a lot from race to race, so I can't say for sure if it has been changed at all, or if I am just imagining things. But I've now been playing on unbeatable difficulty all evening, and won 80% of my races. So I'd say check it out yourselves, and post your findings here. Did you find the AI to be more fair after the latest update, or does it still seem the same to you?

[🦊 Hermit]

I'd really have to agree.

I go for mainly handling builds on my cars since this is my first Forza game, and my first racing game after a several year hiatus from the genre, so I'm by no means the best driver out there. But a lot of the time the top 2 or 3 cars on the grid vanish into the sunset right off the start, and no matter how good of a race I have I never even see them again.

Okay, so make a speed build instead? So I do, I take off all handling parts, downgrade the tires, and throw in power until it is pretty much undrivable. Then I go back to the same race, and even with all that extra power the AI launch off the line like bullets and leave me in the dust.

But okay I can at least catch up with them a little better now, so maybe this is working...until I come to a corner and go sailing off through the catch fencing despite being on the brakes for ages before the turn, while the AI next to me makes the 90degree turn despite carrying a good 30mph more than I was when I had no grip at all.

It's the lack of realism that infuriates. Make the AI tough as nails to beat, sure, but at least do it legitimately, instead of just giving them infinite power and unlimited grip. And make them realistic - if they go for power builds, then make them struggle to take the corners and sometimes spin out, instead of just taking every turn on rails.

[d0x360]

Originally posted by 🦊 Hermit:

I'd really have to agree.

I go for mainly handling builds on my cars since this is my first Forza game, and my first racing game after a several year hiatus from the genre, so I'm by no means the best driver out there. But a lot of the time the top 2 or 3 cars on the grid vanish into the sunset right off the start, and no matter how good of a race I have I never even see them again.

Okay, so make a speed build instead? So I do, I take off all handling parts, downgrade the tires, and throw in power until it is pretty much undrivable. Then I go back to the same race, and even with all that extra power the AI launch off the line like bullets and leave me in the dust.

But okay I can at least catch up with them a little better now, so maybe this is working...until I come to a corner and go sailing off through the catch fencing despite being on the brakes for ages before the turn, while the AI next to me makes the 90degree turn despite carrying a good 30mph more than I was when I had no grip at all.

It's the lack of realism that infuriates. Make the AI tough as nails to beat, sure, but at least do it legitimately, instead of just giving them infinite power and unlimited grip. And make them realistic - if they go for power builds, then make them struggle to take the corners and sometimes spin out, instead of just taking every turn on rails.

No offense but that sounds like it's all on you. The ai never does that to me. Never. You also can't go for a full speed or full handling tune. Literally every race requires tiny tweaks to a tune for the best results.

After watching MANY replays there really isn't rubber banding. Unlike most games the ai makes mistakes and so is humans.

On the highest difficulty I've never had an ai catch up unfairly and you can test it yourself very easily with a custom track that runs down a highway, gets off an exit then gets back on the other side of the highway.

The only way one of you is catching up is either a faster car, a horrible tune on your car, or a screw up by either of you.

[Aryptonix]

The AI is not great compared to FH4 (FH3 is too far in my memory). They are not better, they just got a way better setup, with crazy acceleration and top speed. Pro/Expert on FH4 felt fun and a good challenge. Here Average and Higher, does not feel great/fun.

And yes, they got rubberbanding protection. Before their first and only patch, you could start a A800 race, then upgrade your car to S1 900, but the AI stay at A800. You would Smoke them at the start and top speed. BUT, they would all follow you behind in a train. A A800 shouldnt be close to a S1 900 after a while in a marathon race. They should be minutes behind, not a few seconds.

And in FH4, AI can do mistake, miss a turn and a checkpoint. And they wont be all stacked in 1 big train. But FH5, every race feels like that and never miss a turn.

Was doing the goliath (or the other long race), 80% In the race, i miss a checkpoint (i dont use rewind), so I respawn and all 11 AI pass me as I had no lead for some reason. At 85%, I am back in first place... So, after 80%, I had NO big lead, but it only took me 5% of the race to beat them all and get back in first place... This does not add up.

AI arent great, and there is rubberbanding. No doubt.

[[STG] Dante]

it's so fake, i run high fps you can see when they get pushed forward. it looks very different from cars just racing. Once you pass 1st place a.i. on unbeatable they just drop off the map to, but until that point they have unrealistic straight line speed regardless of the cars capabilities. they are pushed forward to stay in front of you. The only way you win is knowing turns you don't have to brake on, while the a.i. will brake.

[Krosis]

Originally posted by 🦊 Hermit:

I'd really have to agree.

I go for mainly handling builds on my cars since this is my first Forza game, and my first racing game after a several year hiatus from the genre, so I'm by no means the best driver out there. But a lot of the time the top 2 or 3 cars on the grid vanish into the sunset right off the start, and no matter how good of a race I have I never even see them again.

Okay, so make a speed build instead? So I do, I take off all handling parts, downgrade the tires, and throw in power until it is pretty much undrivable. Then I go back to the same race, and even with all that extra power the AI launch off the line like bullets and leave me in the dust.

But okay I can at least catch up with them a little better now, so maybe this is working...until I come to a corner and go sailing off through the catch fencing despite being on the brakes for ages before the turn, while the AI next to me makes the 90degree turn despite carrying a good 30mph more than I was when I had no grip at all.

It's the lack of realism that infuriates. Make the AI tough as nails to beat, sure, but at least do it legitimately, instead of just giving them infinite power and unlimited grip. And make them realistic - if they go for power builds, then make them struggle to take the corners and sometimes spin out, instead of just taking every turn on rails.

I totally agree. I am not asking for the AI to be dumb or easy to beat, I just want a fair fight that does not require a meta car. I just want to be able to drive any car I want, make a competetive build and be able to compete.

[Staquix]

The FH5 AI are off the chart unreal in the worst sense of the word. I just got beat by 7 seconds by a DUNE BUGGY in a road race. The stupid part is the buggy had a good 9 second lead then backed off because his rubber band kicked in. Once I had passed him he was gone again. This wasn't even on high difficulty I had it set on expert.

I have said it once and ill say it again. This is so unforgivable because the game was gold ONE MONTH before they released it. Did they play test and fix the flaws? NO! They spent there time hyping the game with stupid youtube content. MS as a publisher needs to crack down on this garbage and not let these dev's release games in this state. You would think they would have learned after the abortion that was MS Flight Sim earlier this year. But this is America, things don't have to be good they just have to look good.

Thanks again MS.

[Krosis]

Originally posted by d0x360:

Originally posted by 🦊 Hermit:

I'd really have to agree.

I go for mainly handling builds on my cars since this is my first Forza game, and my first racing game after a several year hiatus from the genre, so I'm by no means the best driver out there. But a lot of the time the top 2 or 3 cars on the grid vanish into the sunset right off the start, and no matter how good of a race I have I never even see them again.

Okay, so make a speed build instead? So I do, I take off all handling parts, downgrade the tires, and throw in power until it is pretty much undrivable. Then I go back to the same race, and even with all that extra power the AI launch off the line like bullets and leave me in the dust.

But okay I can at least catch up with them a little better now, so maybe this is working...until I come to a corner and go sailing off through the catch fencing despite being on the brakes for ages before the turn, while the AI next to me makes the 90degree turn despite carrying a good 30mph more than I was when I had no grip at all.

It's the lack of realism that infuriates. Make the AI tough as nails to beat, sure, but at least do it legitimately, instead of just giving them infinite power and unlimited grip. And make them realistic - if they go for power builds, then make them struggle to take the corners and sometimes spin out, instead of just taking every turn on rails.

No offense but that sounds like it's all on you. The ai never does that to me. Never. You also can't go for a full speed or full handling tune. Literally every race requires tiny tweaks to a tune for the best results.

After watching MANY replays there really isn't rubber banding. Unlike most games the ai makes mistakes and so is humans.

On the highest difficulty I've never had an ai catch up unfairly and you can test it yourself very easily with a custom track that runs down a highway, gets off an exit then gets back on the other side of the highway.

The only way one of you is catching up is either a faster car, a horrible tune on your car, or a screw up by either of you.

I know this, and I know for sure my builds are not the problem. Nor is my driving skill... And your way of testing this completely misses the point. The thing is, the AI cars are taking corners with impossible amounts of grip. I see cars with no aero parts take corners 30-60 mph faster than I do, while I barely make the exit of the corner taking the apex line perfectly. So testing who ultimately has a higher top speed in a straight line doesn't prove anything at all...

And you know, I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I tried some different cars, and it's all exactly the same. Doesn't matter if it's RWD or AWD, the AI out-accelerates me, and takes corners faster every single time. Now ofcourse there are the corners where the AI slams the brakes, and I can take it at full speed. But after overtaking them they will just run past me on the straights like I am driving a VW bug or something.

[Krosis]

Originally posted by Staquix:

The FH5 AI are off the chart unreal in the worst sense of the word. I just got beat by 7 seconds by a DUNE BUGGY in a road race. The stupid part is the buggy had a good 9 second lead then backed off because his rubber band kicked in. Once I had passed him he was gone again. This wasn't even on high difficulty I had it set on expert.

I have said it once and ill say it again. This is so unforgivable because the game was gold ONE MONTH before they released it. Did they play test and fix the flaws? NO! They spent there time hyping the game with stupid youtube content. MS as a publisher needs to crack down on this garbage and not let these dev's release games in this state. You would think they would have learned after the abortion that was MS Flight Sim earlier this year. But this is America, things don't have to be good they just have to look good.

Thanks again MS.

Haha, you forgot to mention how they just copy pasted every single car from FH4 and called it a day. But that's an entirely different topic, that I am not here to talk about ofcourse... But yeah, quite relatable...

[Krosis]

Originally posted by STG Dante:

it's so fake, i run high fps you can see when they get pushed forward. it looks very different from cars just racing. Once you pass 1st place a.i. on unbeatable they just drop off the map to, but until that point they have unrealistic straight line speed regardless of the cars capabilities. they are pushed forward to stay in front of you. The only way you win is knowing turns you don't have to brake on, while the a.i. will brake.

Yup, exactly this. This is the only way I can get close and overtake the AI cars. By knowing which corners I don't have to brake on / brake less than the AI cars. But even then, they'll just fly right by again on the straights.

[Micks]

Whats worse is when you're going full speed around a bend chasing the AI, and see the it's brake lights come on but the car itself doesnt even slow down -_-

[CunkFeatures]

I love the difficulty settings, and for these cars to be harder to race. X should be hard, A should be easy.

Nothing worse than having high PI cars driving better than my irl Fiesta, or having the hardest level being so easy to beat.

See what the AI is doing, no tire marks, you seriously have no chance unless you're a F1 driver.

[N0xEterniS]

Hey, I wanted to call you all some very bad words, but instead I invite you all to make a video about the AI, show us your settings and how you drive, the difficulty, tune, so we can all see if it's really the ai OR YOU.. eh ? I'm having no problems with the ai, other than they slow down for no reason sometimes, I've already made multiple videos where I race against unbeatable ai using AWD and RWD, Street and Cross country, and right now I'm making one on Dirt.
Krosis, make a video man, show us where the ai ''cheats'', same goes for [STG] Dante.
There is no rubberband in this game, i've said it before on reddit as well and I got downvoted by screenshot lovers who get rekt by novice Ai.

[lolschrauber]

Originally posted by CunkFeatures:

I love the difficulty settings, and for these cars to be harder to race. X should be hard, A should be easy.

Nothing worse than having high PI cars driving better than my irl Fiesta, or having the hardest level being so easy to beat.

See what the AI is doing, no tire marks, you seriously have no chance unless you're a F1 driver.

Yeah, this time around, on highest difficulty, you not only need to be good, you need perfectly tuned meta cars.

Originally posted by N0xEterniS:

Hey, I wanted to call you all some very bad words, but instead I invite you all to make a video about the AI, show us your settings and how you drive, the difficulty, tune, so we can all see if it's really the ai OR YOU.. eh ? I'm having no problems with the ai, other than they slow down for no reason sometimes, I've already made multiple videos where I race against unbeatable ai using AWD and RWD, Street and Cross country, and right now I'm making one on Dirt.
Krosis, make a video man, show us where the ai ''cheats'', same goes for [STG] Dante.
There is no rubberband in this game, i've said it before on reddit as well and I got downvoted by screenshot lovers who get rekt by novice Ai.

They don't rubber band traditionally, but they get game-logic-defying speed boosts. Usually between 1-3 cars at the front, the rest is absolutely slow.

[N0xEterniS]

Originally posted by CunkFeatures:

I love the difficulty settings, and for these cars to be harder to race. X should be hard, A should be easy.

Nothing worse than having high PI cars driving better than my irl Fiesta, or having the hardest level being so easy to beat.

See what the AI is doing, no tire marks, you seriously have no chance unless you're a F1 driver.

I guess I should be the one talking Kimi's seat next season.

[Krosis]

Originally posted by N0xEterniS:

Hey, I wanted to call you all some very bad words, but instead I invite you all to make a video about the AI, show us your settings and how you drive, the difficulty, tune, so we can all see if it's really the ai OR YOU.. eh ? I'm having no problems with the ai, other than they slow down for no reason sometimes, I've already made multiple videos where I race against unbeatable ai using AWD and RWD, Street and Cross country, and right now I'm making one on Dirt.
Krosis, make a video man, show us where the ai ''cheats'', same goes for [STG] Dante.
There is no rubberband in this game, i've said it before on reddit as well and I got downvoted by screenshot lovers who get rekt by novice Ai.

First of all, thank you for staying respectful. I'm not here to fight with people on the internet, I just want to be able to enjoy FH5 just like anyone else. But I just checked your videos because I am willing to believe you. But the first thing I see is meta car after meta car. So you are not proving my point wrong, you are actually enforcing it. Because it's only possible to win by using meta cars... Which I don't see how that can be fun or enjoyable at all. I can try to make a video to demonstrate if you really want me to, but it will most likely have to wait until the weekend.