How close are they?

[ragen311]

Never played any of the DW games, but was bored and researched the development of DW up to and including the Universe release and DW2's development.

I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts on how "close" DW2 is to DW: Universe's polished state in regards to quality and content if you assume the following:

- The developers are just as capable and their progression with DW2 will be similar to DW:U.
- They will be able to fix and fine tune the AI issues that seem to be plaguing DW2 given enough time. (If you don't think this is likely, I guess that would be your answer to the entire question).
- We lose the nostalgia goggles and don't incorporate our individual preferences for mechanics that you may have preferred in the original but have been intentionally altered in the sequel. Basically, is the mechanic functioning as intended and is it fine tuned?
- Expanding on the previous assumption, lets consider design choices as a totally different conversation that would over-complicate and would probably just derail the conversation.
- The game is not broken beyond repair. Well, I guess if you think it is that is another way to quickly respond.

Note: Judging by content is a bit tricky. Obviously, we would have to wait for a certain amount of DLC's and expansions to get to the point of the original. So, I am only asking about what has already been released (I think it is just the base game) for DW2. If you think that the developers have already succeeded in adding all the content they envisioned for the core game, then let me know. I just wonder if they held back on some stuff until they fixed the existing mechanics, as if it was in early access or something.

If you got through this text wall and take the time to respond, thank you very much. I want to hold off on entering DW in order to give the game the best chance overall. A game with this much depth has a chance of staying in my forever library. Since i never really played the first one, I think DW2 would be doomed to fail if I have to learn its complexities as an unfinished product. Most of the criticism I have read is not that its a bad game, its that the game is unfinished; as if the reviewer expects to enjoy the game at some point down the line.

[ragen311]

Just in case anyone is wondering why I'm asking. If the game has the potential to be great, but not for a couple years or something; then I think i'll just give Distant Worlds: Universe a solid try. If we are talking less than a year, I'll just wait. I'd play both, but for games of this scale I have to be super selective. Grand strategy and 4X games are not really compatible with a lack of free time, never mind that DW games make other games in the same genre look simple.

[AK_icebear]

I think DW2 is already superior to DWU. Yes, there are some things that are lacking: more events especially for late-game, more QOL UI and policy settings, about half the races, and a wider diversity of mods. Playing as a pirate is obviously not in (yet?), but I never played that way in DWU either.

But, DW2 simply feels better to play, especially now that they are differentiating the races more. The modern UI and graphics make it such a pleasure to interact with. Its mostly stable and far more performant than a year ago and DWU in my experience.

I think with the DLC and expansion due out this fall and winter, the game will even surpass DWU in a few of those points above. If you're on the fence now, wait until that big expansion. But I think its worth a few hundred hours already.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by ragen311:

Just in case anyone is wondering why I'm asking. If the game has the potential to be great, but not for a couple years or something; then I think i'll just give Distant Worlds: Universe a solid try. If we are talking less than a year, I'll just wait. I'd play both, but for games of this scale I have to be super selective. Grand strategy and 4X games are not really compatible with a lack of free time, never mind that DW games make other games in the same genre look simple.

DW1 is a polished game which many people on the forums are suggesting new users try if that's what they are looking for.

I just tried a new game in DW2 beta 1.0.3.9 and I had to give up on it because it became unplayable due to the vast amount of bugs, all of which I reported with save games, screen shots, and full documentation. Hopefully this is simply a hiccup in the move towards a more stable game.

One thing to consider is that DW1 is not DW2. As Ak_icebear essentially states, this is a far better game with much more potential than DW1 ever aspired to be. It's simply in a developmental state.

The last beta seems to have made significant improvements in AI fleets maintaining their fueling, which has been a huge issue in my games since launch. That's certainly progress. How long it takes the dev team to finish this much more ambitious project than DW1 is a whole different story which I don't think anyone, including the devs know the answer to.

I recommend you skip DW1 and jump straight into DW2. When you do so is up to you. My take on things is there is a huge learning curve going from a basic understanding to an advanced level in DW2, so even if you have to leave a game due to bugs keeping you from continuing, you can still participate in the learning process and refine your techniques as you increase the difficulty level. Good luck!

[ragen311]

Thank you very much for your replies. Another complicating factor in making this decision is the unique gaming preferences I have. My dream game is a grand strategy and/or 4x genre that incorporates a strong professionally written narrative story (or even a full blown space opera). Can be linear or non-linear, scripted races, multiple multi stage quests woven together....any way really as long as it works.

So, I was pretty blown away when I found out that there was a space based 4X game with multiple narrative campaigns; I got pretty excited and started my research.

- If I want to play the campaigns learning the "secrets of the universe" and experiencing the multiple mysteries the devs scripted, I would have to play DW1...correct? It would be pretty awesome, but they probably don't have those same campaigns in the upgraded form of DW2 right?

- If there is some story in DW2, how does that work? Is it a totally different timeline, after DW1 timeline, between some of the expansion campaigns.....

I realize I am probably one of the only people out there that lacks enough imagination to feel totally satisfied making my own story when playing in any given grand strategy sandbox....but when someone finally pulls it off, you will see what I'm talking about.

Playing Thea games now, which is pretty cool, but only scratching the surface of what i'm talking about (not to mention the 4X-ish mechanics are not nearly as in depth of what I'm seeing with DW screenshots.

[AK_icebear]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend DWU or DW2 on the basis of its story. There is one, and its fine, but its hardly the strength of the game.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by ragen311:

Thank you very much for your replies. Another complicating factor in making this decision is the unique gaming preferences I have. My dream game is a grand strategy and/or 4x genre that incorporates a strong professionally written narrative story (or even a full blown space opera). Can be linear or non-linear, scripted races, multiple multi stage quests woven together....any way really as long as it works.

So, I was pretty blown away when I found out that there was a space based 4X game with multiple narrative campaigns; I got pretty excited and started my research.

- If I want to play the campaigns learning the "secrets of the universe" and experiencing the multiple mysteries the devs scripted, I would have to play DW1...correct? It would be pretty awesome, but they probably don't have those same campaigns in the upgraded form of DW2 right?

- If there is some story in DW2, how does that work? Is it a totally different timeline, after DW1 timeline, between some of the expansion campaigns.....

I realize I am probably one of the only people out there that lacks enough imagination to feel totally satisfied making my own story when playing in any given grand strategy sandbox....but when someone finally pulls it off, you will see what I'm talking about.

Playing Thea games now, which is pretty cool, but only scratching the surface of what i'm talking about (not to mention the 4X-ish mechanics are not nearly as in depth of what I'm seeing with DW screenshots.

I actually have enjoyed the story aspect immensely, locating some outpost or ruins on a planet and seeing what's there. Sometimes is just a clue as to what happened before the collapse of civilization, and other times there's tech. There are a few situations when you'll need to provide the right answer in order to have a favorable result. That's why I think DW2 is a considerable improvement, not to mention the graphics and combat.

Yes, the stories and opportunities change based on the race you choose. I've only played two of the races so far, and I like that their stories and events differ. Just my two cents.

[ragen311]

But am I missing story content from DW1 by skipping right to DW2?

Also, I understand this game is not the narrative strategy combo game I seek. i'll play a strictly sandbox 4X if the mechanics are solid, especially space based. It is just a bonus that there is any narrative at all for me.

[AK_icebear]

Originally posted by ragen311:

But am I missing story content from DW1 by skipping right to DW2?

Also, I understand this game is not the narrative strategy combo game I seek. i'll play a strictly sandbox 4X if the mechanics are solid, especially space based. It is just a bonus that there is any narrative at all for me.

As it stands, only just under half the first games races are available now. It should be slightly over half by year end (I guess). At this pace we'll have all 20 DWU races by late 2024.

My sense is the story elements of the races we have are a bit better/richer than in DWU, but this may be due to how recently I've played each and how much more pleasant the UI and mechanics around those story elements are.

[Sabaithal]

They mostly seem to be focusing on performance optimizations as of right now, the most recent beta is exactly that. To give them credit, it seems to be working, games that were previously unplayable (due to the scripts being unable to keep up with all the stuff happening at once) are now doable if a little bit slow compared to early game.

I do wish the updates were more frequent but from what I know the people making this game are not a big company so I have to cut them some slack.

[ragen311]

Sorry, I was referring to the campaign stories in distant worlds 1 and its expansions. My understanding is that each species has scripted story events and then there are overall story events (i'm not sure if some or all are random; or they always occur). Like there are story events for the ancient past, age of shadows, classic era, return of shkturl and legends.

Lets say you play a pre warp civ in DW2. Do you get to experience any/all story events for your species and the major timeline story events that were in DW1? I know that some stories were about origins of species and major wars, and ancient ancient civs (tried to avoid spoilers in case i play but that is the basics i got).

Since DW2 doesn't pick up after DW1 and you are playing the same span of time are you going through the same story or are they doing brand new stories as if DW1 never existed?

[Sabaithal]

Well I can say there are some events specific to humans at least. At the very least I don't think its coincidence that we eventually find sol when playing as humans every single time.

Not sure about the other races, to be honest humans are the only ones I'm interested in playing as, for once.

Also I don't remember Dw1 very well, but I think Dw2 occurs chronologically after it, after some sort of cataclysm involving the Shakturi that ended up sending everyone still left on liveable planets back to the modern age, and separated the rest into space pirates trying to survive.

[ZumZoom]

Originally posted by ragen311:

Since DW2 doesn't pick up after DW1 and you are playing the same span of time

What made you think this? Pretty sure it does pick up after the events of DW1.

[Warlok]

Interesting reading. Good thread.

I began really enjoying Stellaris, but over time I found Stellaris to be its own enemy. Sector management got in the way of just getting on with the 4x. The flow of any given run was also actually linear, which I loathe. I'd rather have rule-bound dynamism.

So I thought I'd read up on this one after seeing the trailer videos and some discussion in the latest Slitherine tea time.

Fuel management? Sounds intriguing. Being able to more robustly design ships also sounds up my alley. Do we control fleet/tech colours? Minor... yet important. The screenshots of option menus look overwhelmingly deep (!), but that's probably a good thing; one wonders if there might be recommended or preset options to get started.

How is the combat? Is it just biggest/highest tech fleets win? Any play in there? Randomization of hits, damages, or outcome? Can inferior fleets pull off amazing upsets? What does the player do?

Now that it is so long after its launch I wonder about progress, and the trajectory of development. Much $money$ up front on this one. Thanks for your time, folks.

[AK_icebear]

Originally posted by Warlok:

How is the combat? Is it just biggest/highest tech fleets win? Any play in there? Randomization of hits, damages, or outcome? Can inferior fleets pull off amazing upsets? What does the player do?

This isn't where my interest lies, but my impression from others is that if you are willing to either play on very slow during combat, or pause and go often, there is quite a bit of advantage in closely micro'ing the individual ships of your fleet(s).

Personally, I prefer hands off and watching combat unfold. But it can be played like an RTS if that's your inclination.

[Warlok]

Originally posted by AK_icebear:

Originally posted by Warlok:

How is the combat? Is it just biggest/highest tech fleets win? Any play in there? Randomization of hits, damages, or outcome? Can inferior fleets pull off amazing upsets? What does the player do?

This isn't where my interest lies, but my impression from others is that if you are willing to either play on very slow during combat, or pause and go often, there is quite a bit of advantage in closely micro'ing the individual ships of your fleet(s).

Personally, I prefer hands off and watching combat unfold. But it can be played like an RTS if that's your inclination.

Actually I too prefer to sit back and watch carnage I have set in motion. But being able to influence conflict is nice. A card system (for example) to apply events or boost specific crew performance could be interesting. :)