Agility build sucks

[Criza]

just that

[mETAL]

Originally posted by Oggdo:

Originally posted by mETAL:

Str scales your damage on top of the usual weapon scaling?

It might just be a mis-interpreted wording but from an earlier thread on this forum:

Strength: Increases your 'damage' and the weight of the weapon you can wield
Agility: Increases your 'effectiveness' with lighter weapons and ranged attacks

I wouldn't trust that at all.

[Bardiche]

Originally posted by mETAL:

Originally posted by Oggdo:

It might just be a mis-interpreted wording but from an earlier thread on this forum:

Strength: Increases your 'damage' and the weight of the weapon you can wield
Agility: Increases your 'effectiveness' with lighter weapons and ranged attacks

I wouldn't trust that at all.

sure but I also respecced myself and tested fighting the Ruiner near the bonfire + plenty of others in this thread has reported their own damage numbers

[mETAL]

Originally posted by Oggdo:

Originally posted by mETAL:

I wouldn't trust that at all.

sure but I also respecced myself and tested fighting the Ruiner near the bonfire + plenty of others in this thread has reported their own damage numbers

I don't think the issue is agility honestly. Its that heavier weapons have much higher base damage and end up scaling way better.

With a bit of runes to tweak the scaling you can probably make an agility build with fitzroy's longsword. I've been running it with a quality build and I've been levelling agility over str since I gain more damage that way as is.

As far as I know there are some agility based heavy weapons as well. A fair comparison between str and agility builds would be using similar weapons in the same category. Not switching from straight swords to wielding a greatsword and then being surprised the damage is better.

[Bardiche]

Originally posted by mETAL:

Originally posted by Oggdo:

sure but I also respecced myself and tested fighting the Ruiner near the bonfire + plenty of others in this thread has reported their own damage numbers

I don't think the issue is agility honestly. Its that heavier weapons have much higher base damage and end up scaling way better.

With a bit of runes to tweak the scaling you can probably make an agility build with fitzroy's longsword. I've been running it with a quality build and I've been levelling agility over str since I gain more damage that way as is.

As far as I know there are some agility based heavy weapons as well. A fair comparison between str and agility builds would be using similar weapons in the same category. Not switching from straight swords to wielding a greatsword and then being surprised the damage is better.

why would you want a 'fair' comparison the only criteria here is how much dmg you can do, it really is that simple though. Like i said though I was using the splitting axe which has actually identical scaling but with AGI and it is still easily out classed by STR; swing time is slower sure but it is still comparable to DEX weapon swing time, damage however is not.

[Shadowlet]

Got this bad boy and started two-handing/dual wielding then. The damage on these vs. short swords is night and day.

The dash and sidestep attacks are multihit and AOE too which is awesome.

https://thelordsofthefallen.wiki.fextralife.com/Talon

[kda2010]

Originally posted by MasterZalm:

Originally posted by Kitoshi:

There is something very important to know about dual wielding the same weapon type twice. The damage numbers get overlayed on top of each other so you might be doing 150 dmg x2 instead of just 150 dmg.

I tested this by using a slow + fast weapon which have a slower moveset but you can seperate the numbers. I noticed this issue while farming some souls without the reaper death trick and I noticed when I 2handed my weapon I would do 236 damage and this would leave the mob standing with like 10 hp. But if I dual wielded my weapon I would suddenly 1 shot the mob, this struck me as odd because I went from doing 236 dmg to doing 150 so ??? something was up.

Then I found out if you use 2 equal attack speed weapons the damage overlays so you basically get 150+150 or 150+122 in my case but only the 150 was shown because that was the last hit I did. So I was doing 272 damage instead of 236.

Now this does not automatically make agi weapons better off course because I have seen strength weapons do 500+ in a single hit but it is something to keep in mind and that the damage numbers can be missleading at first glance.

I actually run the exact same setup as you and have also tried the Kakujin sword, the bleed is nice when it procs but I found that I was proccing bleed on like the last 10-20% hp of the mob while using the dual spears I would kill the mob faster. I have headcanon dubbed this the "Yukimura build" (Sengoku basara)

I have noticed it, I know its fast but I use two different spears, and they do two different damages. It pops quick, sometimes to fast to see, but I have noticed, essentially, you are hitting two times at once. The issue is, it still hits for less damage than a straight Str build and has roughly the same time frame of hitting. A friend and I played together, and his build was exactly the same as mine, other than Str over Agi. He was doing an average of 120-150 a hit on the same enemies I did 70-75 a hit. He was using a pair of Swords, attacking at the same speed I was, so he was clearing enemies so much faster than me.

This does not include the 50% damage coop partners suffer. I tested it in my own game while he was in his. Agi builds have the same speed, and just simply do less damage than Str builds with the same style of play.

Originally posted by Inquisitor Zalinto:

okay I don't actually know anything about this BUT I SUSPECTED that the faster weapons would excel at applying status effects like wither and then massive enemy health loss - I also see there is equipment that gives mana on hit and stuff like that where speed would matter. There are also many runes that might help agility excel at this. I'm not sure about this though, just what I'm assuming. Let me know if this is not right or if maybe I'm onto something :P

As I stated a moment ago, Str weapons seem to attack at the same rate of Agi weapons if they are the same type. If a short sword is Str or Agi doesnt matter, they attack at the same rate. the main difference is Str weapons simply hit harder.

Now given, there might be more Agi based status weapons down the line, with more status buildup, but weapons themselves attack at roughly the same rate whether they are Agi or Str. So if you have a Bleed based short sword, it doesnt matter whether its Agi or Str, they attack and buildup at the same rate.

So are you saying that an AGI build running dual daggers has the same attack speed as a STR build dual wielding longswords?

*I can’t check for myself at the moment as I am pooping at work 😐

[Kitoshi]

Originally posted by kda2010:

So are you saying that an AGI build running dual daggers has the same attack speed as a STR build dual wielding longswords?

*I can’t check for myself at the moment as I am pooping at work 😐

Not really. Dual daggers attack a little bit faster than long swords but if you had STR dual daggers then yes. They would attack at the same speed. Or agi longswords etc, I am sure you get the point.

[Necro]

i disagree, but it requires some building, like bleed weapons, personally i went into umbral as well for the poison weapon spell so my weapons do bleed and poison and it chunks

[Sebastiano]

Just like God intended.
Unga Bunga is the way my brother.

[Taddy Mason]

I used the starting dagger and Jeffrey's dagger to take down the 2 stage boss in Tower of Penance. I think the agility build is great. I can stay right on bosses and enemies and get my own attacks in between theirs, plus I have that Umbral eye that lets me deal wither damage for doing a perfect dodge. It's been so much fun, I haven't tried other weapon types yet. Been no need so far.

[ЯeÐ ĄnimaŁ ШaЯ]

WHAT? I started with Assa, had massive issue with Pieta but I do not think it was about the class so much just the stupid balancing. Anyway I felt the dual daggers had ♥♥♥♥♥♥ damage and range. No backstab, no damage multiplier when hitting from the back right? I read in the patch notes something about daggers being potentially OP and that they may get nerved if I remember correctly. I did not feel it, but they talked about different ones you can buy I think.

So I switched to short sword in main hand to later dual wield 2 agility swords and they do massive damage. I do not have any comparison because this is the only build I tried. Swamp made me overlevel a but because I was stuck there for a while not finding the way. But every single boss since the annoying first one was not more then 6 tries for me, I used NPCs for some but I feel short swords with agility scaling are pretty good, especially now that I have my main +7 the scaling is really good and I pumped most of my points into agility of course.

I really have no clue what you are on about, seems pretty fine to me.

[Bardiche]

Originally posted by ЯeÐ ĄnimaŁ ШaЯ:

WHAT? I started with Assa, had massive issue with Pieta but I do not think it was about the class so much just the stupid balancing. Anyway I felt the dual daggers had ♥♥♥♥♥♥ damage and range. No backstab, no damage multiplier when hitting from the back right? I read in the patch notes something about daggers being potentially OP and that they may get nerved if I remember correctly. I did not feel it, but they talked about different ones you can buy I think.

So I switched to short sword in main hand to later dual wield 2 agility swords and they do massive damage. I do not have any comparison because this is the only build I tried. Swamp made me overlevel a but because I was stuck there for a while not finding the way. But every single boss since the annoying first one was not more then 6 tries for me, I used NPCs for some but I feel short swords with agility scaling are pretty good, especially now that I have my main +7 the scaling is really good and I pumped most of my points into agility of course.

I really have no clue what you are on about, seems pretty fine to me.

your comment is very similar to the one of the earlier ones; damage is 'massive', early someone says their damage 'chunks' xD but what sort of numbers are you talking about? no one seem to want to say x); seems to be some people trying to make a case based on 'feels'

in your very post you say the damage is 'massive' and then proceed to say you do not have any comparison because it is the only build you tried.

then how do you know it is 'massive' when you have no frame of reference to compare?

[Figs]

just got off a fallen lord's greatsword, which would hit like 600-900 before the ignite splash. but it was slow.

new character is a dual wield daggers, and 2x scourge sister flails right now as i coop helped a bit.

the dual flails in particular, with bleed, are extremely effective. the ball on chain also extends backwards a lot on swings. making clearing packs of trash effective at low levels (this ones ~25).

probably gonna take this agil, then respec to put inferno with lords daggers 2x. we'll see.

staying light tier weight makes dodging even better.

it is easy to parry dual wield daggers. they also seem to do a lot of posture damage, but that may be my imagination.

like it so far