This is really disappointing.

[BrutalGlory]

I've been looking forward to this for years now, and i can honestly say this is the first RTS I've been genuinely disappointed by in about a decade. It seems to have kept the core of the old C&C games, but it's also taken all the wrong lessons while discarding the good ones as well.

Granted I've only played the (GDF i believe it was called? it's GDI for all intents and purposes) but the tech tree is an absolute mess. The UI is also messy; ratios for abilities and seeing what units are selected don't match the rest of what's being displayed and reading the abilities is a literal headache.

There's no range indicators for base defenses (at least while building them at a minimum, maybe there is while selecting them but i'm not entirely sure) and we're using the C&C RA3 wall building system here which is painfully tedious (but not the range indicators from RA3 for some unknown reason)

I don't know what the devs were thinking with every units having abilities by the dozen either; sometimes less micro is more. The game can't seem to decide if it wants to be the pre- Tib 3 & RA3 where it was large-scale skirmishes and the micro was in moving and focus fire or Tib 3 & RA3 onwards where it's a more slow and methodical experience and the micro is based on abilities and sieges. The game seems to have a serious identity crisis by trying to cram everything possible into it.

Building garrisons are functionally useless with the upgrade that enables units to deal damage to units inside the structure. Watching 6 basic anti-tank units get slaughtered by 3 basic vehicles while garrisoned is *not* the C&C experience, i don't understand the decision making here. The whole point of infantry in a C&C game is that it's supposed to be cost effective when fighting from cover.

The repair bays are an outdated mechanic from the late 90s. I don't want to be asked to build half a dozen bays and then manually tell vehicles to repair themselves after a fight like i'm playing Generals. It's one thing to ask someone to micro, but this is absurd. In no universe should we be going back to 90's mechanics that we scrapped and require more micro/macro than playing already APM intensive games like AOE 2, AOE 4, WC3, or SC2 to name a few.

As for MCVs they're the worst offenders. The build radius is absolutely *horrible*, they're slow, for some reason packing and unpacking has a cooldown that's much too long, they require tech to build (Seriously, what the hell is this? Just make it default from the vehicle factory!). (I actually edited this part because upon reloading the game queing multiple buildings of the same type worked, it didn't initially don't ask why.)

The eco is an absolute MESS. Resources run out on each node *far* too quickly, and it doesn't seem like there's any justification for having more than one harvester per node. The base storage of 6000 without silos is also absurdly low, if i can keep a factory, 2 mcvs, a barracks, and an airfield all pumping off of 5 nodes and *still* need to be spamming silos just to keep up then there's a serious problem here. Just do away with the storage limit altogether; pick an identity, is this supposed to be a slower RTS or a faster one? I can crank out 5 factories and keep them going if that's what the devs choose, but don't expect me to make 30 silos in the process while trying to tech and do everything else. At some point i'd like to actually take fights instead of staring at my base.

I'm sure there's more but I think I've made my point. This game is a hot mess, I get the devs want it to be C&C but they've crammed all the worst aspects of C&C games into one and created a monster. The last few times there were demos available i couldn't get the game stable enough to try it, maybe it was better a year ago before they decided to rehaul everything, and if so they really need to revert some of the changes they may have made.

(Edit: Mistake of thinking multiple tech buildings needed to get all tech pods removed. Both icons would simply appear blacked out after building one on further testing - goes to UI complaint.)

[Lotor13]

Publicado originalmente por BrutalGlory:

Publicado originalmente por Lotor13:

-All those games know what they are and do their jobs just fine.-

No, they do not.

That is point here.

Again, if you want to make that claim you're going to have to provide some evidence. Listing some criticisms is a good place to start; there's no conversation to be had with"nuh uh!" and "yeah huh!".

1. point - You mentiones unrelated games - Total War, 4X (Dune Space Wars), Grand Strategy Empire Managment - with crap real time battles (Knights of Honour 2)

2. point - related RTS - Ancestors Legacy and SpellForce 3 are bad RTS games

If You consider as Ancestors Legacy and SpellForce 3 as good (or okay) RTS and Tempest Rising as disappointing - it is simple bias, and Yes, according with Your whole criticism in OP.

Like I agree, that the range indicators for base defenses should be added to the game, but game itself works fine,

[BrutalGlory]

Publicado originalmente por Lotor13:

Publicado originalmente por BrutalGlory:

Again, if you want to make that claim you're going to have to provide some evidence. Listing some criticisms is a good place to start; there's no conversation to be had with"nuh uh!" and "yeah huh!".

1. point - You mentiones unrelated games - Total War, 4X (Dune Space Wars), Grand Strategy Empire Managment - with crap real time battles (Knights of Honour 2)

2. point - related RTS - Ancestors Legacy and SpellForce 3 are bad RTS games

If You consider as Ancestors Legacy and SpellForce 3 as good (or okay) RTS and Tempest Rising as disappointing - it is simple bias, and Yes, according with Your whole criticism in OP.

Like I agree, that the range indicators for base defenses should be added to the game, but game itself works fine,

1: 4x games are still RTS games. No one in their right mind is going to say that Dunes, KOH2, and Total Wars combat isn't based on controlling units and managing specific resources in real time. I'm willing to give you this one simply on the basis that categorization of RTS games varies wildly from person to person. And I'm guessing you don't agree with he stance that games can be a part of more than one genre at once - so feel free to disregard these if you want, it doesn't matter to me. With the exception of Dune, as that absolutely fits the bill and it real time to a T.

2: Still no evidence. You need reasons as to why they're bad, just claiming it isn't enough. Even I could complain about a few things, no game is free from criticism. But unless you can list your criticisms then there's nothing to discuss. And it won't be worth responding to.

[Magpie]

How come they advertise '3 asymmetrical factions' but ONLY TWO AT LAUNCH. But it's not labelled an early access game? So will the 3rd faction be paid DLC?

TR is already looking 'mismanaged' from my POV. It's years late. Will see how it pans out.

[Magpie]

Publicado originalmente por BrutalGlory:

I don't want to be asked to build half a dozen bays and then manually tell vehicles to repair themselves after a fight like i'm playing Generals.

Hehe. Dark Reign: The Future of War came out in 1997 and provided you with the ability to set a 'damage tolerance' for units between Low, Medium and High. Medium Damage Tolerance would have the units retreat to base and automatically repair themselves at the repair bay (if one was available) once they reached <50% health.

This was RTS in 1997. Modern developers are so incompetent chasing that ever-elusive 'general audience' even after deciding to build a game as a homage in a niche genre. It's like, pick a lane.

TR doesn't make sense.

[d1spatch]

I can't decide whether some of the design decisions are cool and different or whether or not they actually are just retarded....

Does seem a little odd and convoluted overall. We'll see where it goes. I am enjoying it though.

[puppet74]

Publicado originalmente por d1spatch:

I can't decide whether some of the design decisions are cool and different or whether or not they actually are just retarded....

Does seem a little odd and convoluted overall. We'll see where it goes. I am enjoying it though.

the devs reply a bit more over on reddit, so if u have any thoughts and suggestions, better to go there.

[Avery]

Besides the game mechanic they need to polish the interface. The building and unit pictures are too similar and in an absurd low resolution. Icons, buttons and font size should be much larger and the build menu is overloaded at all.

I spent two hours reading the unit descriptions and figure out what they are used for. And this was only for the GDF side ...

The intro is crap and miles away from every CNC game. Couldn't understand a word even with headphones.

Pro: Music is a banger.

[PLAY4FUN]

Very expensive for a basic game . so far , the only plus for this game is the visual . that's it. the most laughing thing is the GDF air bomber , does not a bomb run . it stops and then through away 2 bombs . Come on guys do it properly . red alert has a better bomb runs

[BrutalGlory]

Publicado originalmente por PLAY4FUN:

Very expensive for a basic game . so far , the only plus for this game is the visual . that's it. the most laughing thing is the GDF air bomber , does not a bomb run . it stops and then through away 2 bombs . Come on guys do it properly . red alert has a better bomb runs

Does it really? I never even got around to testing that unit. I was too disgusted with all the other faults and set the game down long before then.

[jonoliveira12]

The game is amazing, and outside of the Bomber not doing actual bombing runs, there is nothing disppointing about it.

In fact, word of mouth is that it is a big return to form for the genre.

[d1spatch]

Yea I've been enjoying it. I think if they keep polishing stuff and fixing things it'll be in a good state.

[jonoliveira12]

Even BikeRushOwnz is saying this is the new C&C.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfr_frrNksY&ab_channel=Bikerushownz

[BrutalGlory]

Publicado originalmente por jonoliveira12:

Even BikeRushOwnz is saying this is the new C&C.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfr_frrNksY&ab_channel=Bikerushownz

If that's his opinion then good for him. We'll see if it pans out, but it doesn't look to me like his opinions are indicative of the average fan in the slightest.

[Lotor13]

Publicado originalmente por BrutalGlory:

Publicado originalmente por jonoliveira12:

Even BikeRushOwnz is saying this is the new C&C.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfr_frrNksY&ab_channel=Bikerushownz

If that's his opinion then good for him. We'll see if it pans out, but it doesn't look to me like his opinions are indicative of the average fan in the slightest.

Yes, Tempest Rising is new C&C, beceuse it uses C&C gameplay formula, (it does not mean C&C remake),

You are trying to say "wise words" here... and You put Tempest Rising and 4X strategy games into 1 category. So Your opinions are indicative of the guy, who do not understantd strategy games.

[BrutalGlory]

Publicado originalmente por Lotor13:

Publicado originalmente por BrutalGlory:

If that's his opinion then good for him. We'll see if it pans out, but it doesn't look to me like his opinions are indicative of the average fan in the slightest.

Yes, Tempest Rising is new C&C, beceuse it uses C&C gameplay formula, (it does not mean C&C remake),

You are trying to say "wise words" here... and You put Tempest Rising and 4X strategy games into 1 category. So Your opinions are indicative of the guy, who do not understantd strategy games.

My dude, games can belong to more than one category at a time. If you don't understand that then there's nothing more to be said.