Remove pop cap for singleplayer

[SenorRagequit]

For the love of god, remove the pop cap.
If I want to steam roll enemies, let me

[Lotor13]

No :D

[NanoViruz]

Yeah popcap in this kind of RTS is pretty dumb, let me build a massive army, the freaking AI can steamroll me with a big army so let me

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by NanoViruz:

Yeah popcap in this kind of RTS is pretty dumb,

It has its meaning, the reason why these "classic RTS died", was because these RTS games were more about production than actuall strategy, pop mechanics is fixing that.

[SenorRagequit]

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Originally posted by NanoViruz:

Yeah popcap in this kind of RTS is pretty dumb,

It has its meaning, the reason why these "classic RTS died", was because these RTS games were more about production than actuall strategy, pop mechanics is fixing that.

Just add a toggle to the game and let me decide if I want to use it.
No need for the devs to force me to use it

[Zakkuri]

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Originally posted by NanoViruz:

Yeah popcap in this kind of RTS is pretty dumb,

It has its meaning, the reason why these "classic RTS died", was because these RTS games were more about production than actuall strategy, pop mechanics is fixing that.

Lol no. Pop Cap didn't kill of RTS for sure. Overly forcing dumb mechanics and micro paired with boring symmetry to satisfy the E-Sport Minority killed RTS. Actually there are a lot of reasons why the Genre suffered so much losses, but missing Pop Caps surely weren't one of them.

If Pop Cap would be the reason, all CnC Games would have been dead on arrival, yet they were one of the most popular RTS Games. There is absolutely no reason to force it outside of Quickmatches and maybe the campaign for balance reasons. For Custom Games everyone should be able to decide for themselfes.

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Zakkuri:

Lol no. Pop Cap didn't kill of RTS for sure.

I did not say, that "pop cap itself killed RTS"

It is actually opposite, lack of meaningful rules killed old classic RTS. At the end, many of these old classic RTS were about, who can make bigger army faster than actual strategy. Like more about production than strategy, thay why designers needed to add pop cap and complex mechanics and "rules" (Starcraft, Company of Heroes)

Originally posted by Zakkuri:

Overly forcing dumb mechanics and micro paired with boring symmetry to satisfy the E-Sport Minority killed RTS.

This sounds like nonsense
Not sure, what do You talking about, but e-sport is irrelevant to this, like You said, the hardcore (not casual) multiplayer players are minority but the "esport" RTS - Age of Empires 2 and Starcraft 2 actually "help" to keep genre "alive" (keep players active).

An incompetent developers (Act of Aggression, Crossfire: Legion, Iron Harvest) are different case.

[Sparky mark phillips]

Originally posted by SenorRagequit:

Originally posted by Lotor13:

It has its meaning, the reason why these "classic RTS died", was because these RTS games were more about production than actuall strategy, pop mechanics is fixing that.

Just add a toggle to the game and let me decide if I want to use it.
No need for the devs to force me to use it

agree it should be a gameplay option

[Король Бабар]

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Not sure, what do You talking about, but e-sport is irrelevant to this, like You said, the hardcore (not casual) multiplayer players are minority but the "esport" RTS - Age of Empires 2 and Starcraft 2 actually "help" to keep genre "alive" (keep players active).

That's really cool for the 12 people that play ranked on those games.

What keeps alive AoE2 is the support by microsoft and the quality singleplayer content. For SC2 it's the map editor.

[MasterSteve117]

Originally posted by Lotor13:

Originally posted by Zakkuri:

Lol no. Pop Cap didn't kill of RTS for sure.

I did not say, that "pop cap itself killed RTS"

It is actually opposite, lack of meaningful rules killed old classic RTS. At the end, many of these old classic RTS were about, who can make bigger army faster than actual strategy. Like more about production than strategy, thay why designers needed to add pop cap and complex mechanics and "rules" (Starcraft, Company of Heroes)

Originally posted by Zakkuri:

Overly forcing dumb mechanics and micro paired with boring symmetry to satisfy the E-Sport Minority killed RTS.

This sounds like nonsense
Not sure, what do You talking about, but e-sport is irrelevant to this, like You said, the hardcore (not casual) multiplayer players are minority but the "esport" RTS - Age of Empires 2 and Starcraft 2 actually "help" to keep genre "alive" (keep players active).

An incompetent developers (Act of Aggression, Crossfire: Legion, Iron Harvest) are different case.

Ah yes, another white knight defending any kind of criticism.

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by Король Бабар:

That's really cool for the 12 people that play ranked on those games.

What keeps alive AoE2 is the support by microsoft and the quality singleplayer content. For SC2 it's the map editor.

Check the steam achievments for campaign completion in both AoE2 HD and DE... it is very low. The AoE2 campaigns in remasters are very unbalanced, some missions are easy or too hard...

I would say that ranked multiplayer is quite live...

check the AoE2 online stats, it is not about "12 people"

https://aoestats.io/

[[BRN]Jordixxx]

Yeah im all for pop cap removal. idgaf what some esports weirdos want

[Lotor13]

Originally posted by MasterSteve117:

Originally posted by Lotor13:

I did not say, that "pop cap itself killed RTS"
...

Ah yes, another white knight defending any kind of criticism.

What? :D

And You are... black knight?

I'm the critic here.

[Viddaz]

Originally posted by SenorRagequit:

For the love of god, remove the pop cap.
If I want to steam roll enemies, let me

Did you ever consider the fact that there is a cap because of engine limitations?

[{NLR} C´est Moi ;D]

You can steam roll the enemies just fine with the current cap

[Saracen26]

Originally posted by Viddaz:

Originally posted by SenorRagequit:

For the love of god, remove the pop cap.
If I want to steam roll enemies, let me

Did you ever consider the fact that there is a cap because of engine limitations?

This right here. The Unreal Engine really isn't an RTS engine at heart. Even with UE5 here, it still excels best at being a FPS, Third Person, RPG engine allowing for world creation within a limited space. If you start throwing AI scripts, other scripts and a tonne of animations, effects etc. It starts to stack hard on systems. There has to be a limit with the engine and no doubt a lot of testing has gone into refining the need to restrict RAM and CPU usage to make the game accessible to the widest audience possible.

RTS is one of the most difficult and resource intensive game genres to create. This is why it has mostly become a dead genre. The resources required in terms of the team, finances, testing and more is immense. The audience, whilst wide reaching and quite prominent is considered niche as a market compared to FPS and the like.

Dune 2 was created so C&C could run... Warcraft and especially Starcraft introduced pop caps for strategical reasons and still became bigger than any RTS on the planet. The design choice is both strategic and resource considerate this day in age and has been for a while. The Developers vision for the game should not be compromised for the comfort of the few.