Difficulty is too hard

[Moonship]

I think playing on Easy should be easy,but this game is too hard. Enemys are fast as hell building non stop Units and kills you after few minutes on easy.
Pls fix that.
There are also big Balance issues in MP ,
first game i was rushed by 3 rocket-jeeps even my towers in my base had not the range to shoot theese launchers so they could easyly take one building after another and i had no chance.
Also the Infantry units all seem useless, just the medic is too overpowered and cannot be killed even with multiple units they shoot him but he takes not much damage while the enemy kills your units in no time.

Make the game easyier in EASY and BALANCE the Ranges of towers and the Medics pls!!!!

Slow down the gameplay,i dont want to rush 5 minutes games just like the one who is 2 seconds faster will win this sucks! theres no strategy in rushing 3 rocket jeeps into enemys base...

[Madrox8]

Origineel geplaatst door AdAstraWill:

Origineel geplaatst door Generic Roughneck:

Then this game is not for you, or any other RTS. It's not supposed to hold your hand as you casually wander through.

That is an objective lie.

Starcraft 1
Starcraft Brood war
C&C And all sequels
Red Alert and all sequels

All of them hold your hand on easy. ALL of them.

The only ones that don't per say are things like supreme commander and total annihilation. So yes RTS's are for them and yes RTSs do hold peoples hands on EASY.

This elitist nonsense is why our beloved RTS games never grow because there are people gatekeeping things that dont affect them for seemingly no reason other than some insane idea that if easy difficulty was easy it would make the game "casual". Ridiculous.

you are defenetly wrong since starcraft 1 + broodwar, and even the original C&C did not have difficulties at all for campaign and in SCs case skrimish, the OP is clearly talking about skirmish as the early campaign missions are very easy and holds your hand to teach you your basic units and abilities in a very controlled enviroment where in skirmish the ai does poking attacks in easy and not full on all in rushes that hard ai can do.

this is not a game to learn how a faction works in skirmish like some ppl tried to do in say red alert 2 where easy in skirmish does not attack at all except for using a super weapon. skirmish is trying to mimick PVP play to get some early practice on how maps lay out and get used to basic attacks

[Aeryn]

Origineel geplaatst door Kathrynerius:

Are you sure you played against easy AI? I casually built a base just to see what all the units looked like, and was only attacked one or twice in 20 minutes by a single tank and one infantry man. I casually walked over and killed them both instantly with just a couple tanks after I was bored. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3466415439

I know I did... but your experience being quite different makes me wonder if there's a bug or something overriding the difficulty setting, since I would not have been able to get a screenshot that late game without my everything being on fire, and that defense, including microing all the units in your base, would not have survived more than 30 seconds or so against the onslaught. Makes me wonder if maybe it just threw some of us in against a harder difficulty.

For the sake of documentation, first thing I did in the game after messing with the settings, was go into skirmish mode, change my color to purple, change my opponent's color to red, leave my team on GDF, set my opponent to Tempest Dynasty, set their difficulty to "easy", and start the match. Default map and all that. Once I have time later, I might try messing with things and seeing if I get different results.

...if what I *was* put against was the hard setting, it would be nice to get harder AIs for more advanced play, since I was basically able to finish it off (once I got my bearings and defenses established) with a mass of tanks right towards the construction yard and no effort put into unit cohesion, that was mostly meant to destroy some of their economy to slow them down for some respite.

[morrokain10587]

I just completed an easy skirmish and I can confirm that it is tuned more towards an experienced competitive PVP RTS player picking up the game vs learning the game or having fun messing around with units.

In a nutshell- build order, micro, knowledge of units strengths and weaknesses, and overall tactics are required to beat an easy AI on skirmish 1v1. I'm a veteran of RTS games and its certainly beatable for me, but not comfortably so. It's definitely not the "couple of tanks and infantry" scenario described above. At least not for me in my first skirmish.

It is easy, certainly, but not in the way that easy is perceived in the scope of learning an RTS is what I am trying to say.

This is sort of the antithesis of what the easy setting was meant for. If you have to know all of these points beforehand, where are you actually learning them aside from older games? For the game's overall health, a beginner sort of setting is needed. Beginner for games, not RTS players. You can't just rely on the campaign alone to do that - if it even does. I have been playing on normal and its moderately challenging for me. First try at all missions but certainly not brainlessly either.

The AI on easy will spam units at you regularly but it only really increases in amount at around the 15~20 minute mark. At the 30 minute mark the AI will be sending quite a few units at you.

It will also do things like replace new Construction Yards if you destroy one and resource spam across the map with refineries, etc.

And it plants healthy amounts of base defense and keeps an army at the base outside of attacks for defense.

These would certainly be considered "advanced tactics" compared to older games mentioned. In several of them, easy would barely attack at all - let alone with a lot of the overall unit roster.

There are other considerations here, however, such as how resources work in this game. Its a refreshing take. Just spamming refineries is only half of resource gathering. I'm interested in experimenting more with it.

TLDR: The game overall is very good, but I would consider this a valid criticism. An easier setting could open it up to a wider audience - especially considering the quality of the game at this stage.

RTS is finally getting a little love after a period of stagnation, so don't gate it behind pre-assumed skill levels.

[Aeryn]

Origineel geplaatst door Aeryn:

[..]Once I have time later, I might try messing with things and seeing if I get different results. [..]

So... did another skirmish round, same steps as last time, except I changed to a different map. I was attacked at about the same time, relative to the match's start, and the AI was still somewhat aggressive and probing my defenses, but the attacks were *much* lighter. Like, a tank and two infantry, vs twenty infantry, five tanks, and three rocket vehicles, and there were actual luls between attacks... but the biggest difference seemed to be that when it hit resistance, it'd try to pull its units back, which kept them from attacking as my units and defenses shot them down during the attempted retreat. It meant that I could defend a part of my base with a gattling turret and a laser turret, station an engineer nearby, and forget about it.

Would still probably be frustrating for some newer players but it was much more manageable than the first round I played. That's making me think there may actually be a bug that can make the AI harder than intended.

[Valcrist]

yup easy is WAY to overtuned across the board the game is frustratingly not fun, this isnt classic command and conquer this is just another RTS trying to focus to hard on modern PVP / E sports , storm gate, AOE 4 all of them continue to keep trying to push this pvp garbage ignoring the aspect that a lot of people just want to play skirmish and comp stop.

[MANFACE!]

Origineel geplaatst door djcarey:

You just got to practice more.

Go to the gym and push 200 pounds on the bench on your first day with your noodle arms. If you can't, you have the beefcakes constantly yelling "Get gud" at you. That is basicly the same scenario.

[Vixxynn]

The skirmish on "easy" is insanely hard. Getting wiped several sides after 10 minutes of gameplay where no ammount of defences matter I would accept on Normal och higher difficulty but as things are now Skirmish is no-go.

[Xan84]

Origineel geplaatst door Vixxynn:

The skirmish on "easy" is insanely hard. Getting wiped several sides after 10 minutes of gameplay where no ammount of defences matter I would accept on Normal och higher difficulty but as things are now Skirmish is no-go.

Stop making defenses. Make UNITS, that is why you are losing, you need to be agresive, expand and make multiple unit production structures. Once you do this, its easy. If you tower, its hard.

[morrokain10587]

Origineel geplaatst door Xan84:

Stop making defenses. Make UNITS, that is why you are losing, you need to be agresive, expand and make multiple unit production structures. Once you do this, its easy. If you tower, its hard.

I think you are missing the point here. As far as I can tell, this isn't a thread asking advice on how to beat the AI on easy in skirmish.

Most of us already conceded that its easy for veterans of RTS and people good at these sorts of games.

Its the lack of a "hand holding basically cant lose" setting to allow people to experiment at their own pace while still having some semblance of AI that is the issue.

The easiest setting should literally just send a few basic units every 5 mins or so. And it should not resource expand across the map but stick to one centralized base.

It should be that easy. Then the next setting up can start preparing people for online play like how easy is now.

[Xan84]

Origineel geplaatst door morrokain10587:

Origineel geplaatst door Xan84:

Stop making defenses. Make UNITS, that is why you are losing, you need to be agresive, expand and make multiple unit production structures. Once you do this, its easy. If you tower, its hard.

I think you are missing the point here. As far as I can tell, this isn't a thread asking advice on how to beat the AI on easy in skirmish.

Most of us already conceded that its easy for veterans of RTS and people good at these sorts of games.

Its the lack of a "hand holding basically cant lose" setting to allow people to experiment at their own pace while still having some semblance of AI that is the issue.

The easiest setting should literally just send a few basic units every 5 mins or so. And it should not resource expand across the map but stick to one centralized base.

It should be that easy. Then the next setting up can start preparing people for online play like how easy is now.

That makes little sense unless they make a lot more difficulties levels since playing easy the way you describe, will never prepare you for normal. I suggest you play the campaign then.

Also how easy, easy should be is subjective. I think easy is as easy as it should be, it forces you to play in a style that would prepare you for normal or multiplayer. If you make it completely and I mean completely retarded the way you describe, I really don't see the point of it. This is not a city builder. For instance, home base resources run out very fast, if it would not expand, it would be dead in the water very fast as well.

[skyshroudsylvan]

Origineel geplaatst door Moonship:

I think playing on Easy should be easy,but this game is too hard. Enemys are fast as hell building non stop Units and kills you after few minutes on easy.
Pls fix that.
There are also big Balance issues in MP ,
first game i was rushed by 3 rocket-jeeps even my towers in my base had not the range to shoot theese launchers so they could easyly take one building after another and i had no chance.
Also the Infantry units all seem useless, just the medic is too overpowered and cannot be killed even with multiple units they shoot him but he takes not much damage while the enemy kills your units in no time.

Make the game easyier in EASY and BALANCE the Ranges of towers and the Medics pls!!!!

Slow down the gameplay,i dont want to rush 5 minutes games just like the one who is 2 seconds faster will win this sucks! theres no strategy in rushing 3 rocket jeeps into enemys base...

The difficulty may depend on what faction you are and which one(s) you play against. I've noticed that GDF tends to take AI a bit more time to get spinning and don't tend to spam same units. DYN tends to spam rocket troops and buggies. Try using GDF against 1 easy DYN AI on the Dam lvl. Set the enemy on an opposite corner. Train an engineer as soon as the barracks is built and send him to capture the resource generator at the top middle or bottom middle (depending on which corner you are). AI won't touch that until mid-late game. While he's going, build an additional refinery and 2 gatling turrets for a perimeter defense. Easy AI don't build air units, forward bases, engineers, or advanced units. They also build the bare minimum for troop production. You can either do units or turtle defense. I did turtle, but the enemy waves will increase as time progresses. If you turtle- be sure to have gatling turret, laser turret next to it, haywire turret behind gatling turret, and trebuchet turret behind laser turret. 3 groups of 4 turrets. 2 to the left/right (spaced) and 1 top/bottom. Prioritize building drone carriers as they can sit in unreachable spots and can wipe out the AI in groups of 5+. AI shoots the drones, not the carriers; having 5+ ensures that drones wiped out are replaced without noticing.

[skyshroudsylvan]

It's nice to see steam players being supportive of another's experience (for the most part). Gamers are suppose to do that. Telling people to 'git gud' or 'quit playing' is toxic for the community.

[MushyHubby]

What i have noticed too from what he said. even on easy if they come with bad units it seems ya own units die way faster then the AI units... and i think this is different with each play through. What i noticed on my first easy against the enemy AI was this... i totally won if there is something in between our bases.. but if its a straight road from 1 to the other.. they just easly steamroll you suddenly... Ow and if they attack with a with tanks ya defences it does quick even on easy but if you do it on theres it is like hitting a fortress.... its freaking insane. i had to come around the side of there base put a healing building to distract there defences and then killem all.... that is no fun.. at all... that isnt skirmish... its lazy game design...

[DarkLordMadax]

Origineel geplaatst door Kathrynerius:

Origineel geplaatst door DarkLordMadax:

I agree with you on this. I played a skirmish as the GDF against Dynasty Easy AIs. Not only did they completely wipe out my AI teammate like nothing, they kept harassing me from multiple sides with GIANT forces of both infantry and tanks. Once I finally pushed them away and got into attacking, one of the darn Dynasty guys just wouldn't go down. After wiping out his starting point, I kept stumbling upon fully functioning bases across the entire map (CY, barracks, machine shop, etc). This is way more crazy than even the hard AIs of Tiberium Wars. These AIs, while clunky with their methods, employed rather scary tactics that would instantly push away many potential players. What a lot of these hardcore players don't understand is that the introduction of the game to newer players is how a game succeeds. If a game caters only to a specific and restricted player base, then it won't flourish at all. This is my only biggest gripe with the game.

Are you sure you played against easy AI? I casually built a base just to see what all the units looked like, and was only attacked one or twice in 20 minutes by a single tank and one infantry man. I casually walked over and killed them both instantly with just a couple tanks after I was bored. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3466415439

Yup. Sure did. I'd have saved a screenshot, but my game crashed and I was unable to even finish the match. Just when I had finally cornered them too. I'll check again, but I ain't holding much hope. If it goes belly up, I'll log it.

Edit: HOLY SMOKES! That's one hell of a nice base! I played on that same map too!

[morrokain10587]

Origineel geplaatst door Xan84:

That makes little sense unless they make a lot more difficulties levels since playing easy the way you describe, will never prepare you for normal. I suggest you play the campaign then.

Also how easy, easy should be is subjective. I think easy is as easy as it should be, it forces you to play in a style that would prepare you for normal or multiplayer. If you make it completely and I mean completely retarded the way you describe, I really don't see the point of it. This is not a city builder. For instance, home base resources run out very fast, if it would not expand, it would be dead in the water very fast as well.

Comparing my description to a city builder is a bit of an exaggeration dont you think? And that's just one example obvious adjustments to things like economy can be made- Such as only expanding WHEN the AI runs out, etc.

Now, if you reread what you wrote here, I think that comes to the heart of it. While constraints of some sort are a part of all games, "forcing" a player to play in a certain style to "prepare them" is more like training and less like fun to many people - who have therefore voiced their complaints.

Not everyone playing is playing to get better and treat it like a sport. Some are just messing around. And I think that is completely ok as long as that does not detract from a challenging experience for those who want it.

Sometimes I just want to watch tanks and planes blow stuff up. I don't necessarily want to micro and macro to stay ahead of an aggressive AI. Do I want it to attack my base? Yes. Do I want it to take over the map and then overwhelm me after it does with nonstop units? On the easiest setting no less? No.

What is easy or not is subjective, but what is apparently objective is that many find the easiest setting more frustrating than fun. Telling them they are wrong doesn't help anything.

If you are making a game for an elite group of hardcore gamers to show off their skill and leave everyone else out then the current state of difficulty is more in line with that concept right now.

If you are making a game that is supposed to be enjoyable and have a large audience, changes will have to be made.

And to be clear here I AM suggesting for more difficulty layers - not advocating for dumbing the game down as a whole. If anything, there could probably stand to be greater challenges added though I haven't tested that end yet.