Meh.

[Exile]

I'll start off by saying the production values that I've seen with this are solid. A 12 year-old me would have thought this was the coolest thing ever, but that's kind of the root of the problem. This seems to be to the RTS genre what Duke Nukem Forever was the the FPS, a game coming out 20 years too late. I can appreciate old-school type RTSs and have spent plenty of hours playing them, but not one that's content to directly copy-paste units and level design from Red Alert. It's really necessary to bring fresh ideas to the table when making an entirely new game, especially when the old C&C games are so readily available. If I wanted to play Red Alert again I'd play Red Alert again. I realize there are a bunch of features that weren't available in the demo that might make a significant difference, and that it was just one mission. I do sincerely hope there's much more that just hasn't been shown, and I do want to like this game, but what's there does not impress.

[Silvertongued Devil]

What sort of innovations would you like to see? Just curious.

[R4DFIELD]

My opinion is the exact opposite as yours, what most people want is what you don't seem to want.

The fact is that EA abandoned the franchise, I want to play a modern C&C from the 2000's in 2023. Tempest Rising is doing this... or in 2024 lol.

We've had new RTS games trying to "innovate" and they all have been DOA.

[startrekmike]

Originally posted by Exile:

I'll start off by saying the production values that I've seen with this are solid. A 12 year-old me would have thought this was the coolest thing ever, but that's kind of the root of the problem. This seems to be to the RTS genre what Duke Nukem Forever was the the FPS, a game coming out 20 years too late. I can appreciate old-school type RTSs and have spent plenty of hours playing them, but not one that's content to directly copy-paste units and level design from Red Alert. It's really necessary to bring fresh ideas to the table when making an entirely new game, especially when the old C&C games are so readily available. If I wanted to play Red Alert again I'd play Red Alert again. I realize there are a bunch of features that weren't available in the demo that might make a significant difference, and that it was just one mission. I do sincerely hope there's much more that just hasn't been shown, and I do want to like this game, but what's there does not impress.

I think you are vastly, vastly underestimating just how much a lot of classic RTS fans want a modern take on the classic Command and Conquer/Red Alert formula. It is not unlike the resurgence of classic "boomer shooters". They might not be everyone's cup of tea and they might not go out of their way to be arbitrarily "innovative" but they serve a specific playerbase that wants them. It really can just be that simple.

[Cat]

We want classic RTS, not PvP focused modern games that requires internet connection to play singleplayer or an android/iOS app like the one that just launched.

[Undead Rufus]

I just saw Raptor playing this on YT. Didn't know it existed previously. The CC/RA remaster was cool, but this is next level. No fresh ideas required, just a solid retro RTS with a modern coat of paint. Instantly wishlisted.

[greenboots]

I want a C&C game to play and this fits my style perfectly. It doesn't need "Innovations".
I'm buying this as soon as it comes out.

[Flavalicious]

I think the upcoming releases speak for themselves. Folks definitely want old school RTS in a new wrapper....

Announced recently as in development or releasing within the year

Homeworld 3
Sins of a solar empire 2
Tempest rising (CC clone)
Stormgate (WC3/SC clone)
Zerospace (SC2 clone partially developed by retired esports players)
Dworfs (retro kknd/c&c/Z clone)

And thats like....off the top of my head. Every game on that list is an rts following up in the spirit of a early 2000s rts franchise

[Exile]

Originally posted by startrekmike:

I think you are vastly, vastly underestimating just how much a lot of classic RTS fans want a modern take on the classic Command and Conquer/Red Alert formula. It is not unlike the resurgence of classic "boomer shooters". They might not be everyone's cup of tea and they might not go out of their way to be arbitrarily "innovative" but they serve a specific playerbase that wants them. It really can just be that simple.

Yes, and boomer shooters work because they're very low-cost products to make, often by single-person dev teams. They can afford to be niche because they're that easy to produce, but something with big production values like this that's hoping to engage people long term and have a multiplayer scene is going to have to do a lot more.

Originally posted by Flavalicious:

I think the upcoming releases speak for themselves. Folks definitely want old school RTS in a new wrapper....

Announced recently as in development or releasing within the year

Homeworld 3
Sins of a solar empire 2
Tempest rising (CC clone)
Stormgate (WC3/SC clone)
Zerospace (SC2 clone partially developed by retired esports players)
Dworfs (retro kknd/c&c/Z clone)

And thats like....off the top of my head. Every game on that list is an rts following up in the spirit of a early 2000s rts franchise

The only ones of these that I've heard of are Sins 2, which is more of an RTS/4X hybrid which has always had a unique formula, and HW3. HW3 isn't reinventing the wheel but it does look better than 99% of games and they're doing things with megastructures which they couldn't in HW2 due to technical limitations. I don't consider either of them to be in the same category as this one.

[Silvertongued Devil]

FWIW, there's more than just those RTS games coming out. Some look good, some less so. Some are quirky, but might be fun.

Ones that I'm aware of that haven't been mentioned:
Sanctuary (not on Steam yet I think but it's basically Forged Alliance Mk.2)
Moduwar (Alien organism expanding itself in RTS format?)
Godsworn (Deities leading factions to win fitan things)
Agony: Lords of Hell (..perverted RTS maybe?)
Annihilate the Spance (more base-building focused with auto-production unit swarms)
Terminator: Dark Fate - Defiance (lousy name aside, might be fun)
Age of Sigmar: Realms of Ruin (okay it's probably been suggested but it looks neat)
Barkhan (Dune 2000: Now with 200% more Obelisk of Light because ♥♥♥♥ you we can, apparently)
Beyond All Reason (okay it's already out BUT IT'S NEAT AND FREE OKAY)

And those are only the ones that I've been keeping an eye on.
One thing you gotta give RTS fans: if a big name company doesn't make the game they want they will eventually just make it themselves. Been happening for years now. That Total Annihilation mod "Spring" something was ancient and I suspect it's still going.

Point is: There's all kinds of RTS games out there and one is probably pretty close to what you want.

[Dark Zalgo]

Originally posted by Exile:

Yes, and boomer shooters work because they're very low-cost products to make, often by single-person dev teams. They can afford to be niche because they're that easy to produce, but something with big production values like this that's hoping to engage people long term and have a multiplayer scene is going to have to do a lot more.

I understand that this is an early version of the game, but part of the problem is that this game is missing way too many features and design features that would be absolutely necessary for a healthy multiplayer scene.

No amounts on resource patches, no amounts on harvester inventory, horrific pathing on harvesters (mine just kept walking back and forth on an empty patch of resources for 10 minutes until I told it to mine a patch two feet next to where it was pacing back and forth), somewhat bad pathing just in general.

And while I understand its trying to copy C&C in several regards, the style of constructing buildings just feels lazy, the interface doesn't look good, and the units don't really feel impactful to me.

[jonoliveira12]

The purpose of this game is exactly to be a throwback to earlier RTS, of a time now gone.
It is indeed the boomer-shooter of RTS.
That is why I think it will do well. This genre is tiny now, and innovation completely shattered it into multiple subgenres, long ago.
AoE2HD, and then DE, already proved that all you need to sell RTS these days, is good back-to-basics gameplay, and decent production values.

All I want is TibSun and RA2, with better graphics and new stories. I suspect taht a lot of people that still play RTS these days, want the same.
That is why another huge throwback game, Beyond All Reason, who literally copies Total Annihilation unit design and mechanics, is also doing well.
People do not really want innovation as much as they think they do, otherwise CoH and MOBAs would dominate the market, yet CoH cannot compete with AoE, and MOBAs are not run by the RTS crowd. What people do want, is what they always had, but more convenient and prettier.

[Cat]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

The purpose of this game is exactly to be a throwback to earlier RTS, of a time now gone.
It is indeed the boomer-shooter of RTS.

This is exactly what I was expecting, and hope for the game would be like. Sadly, there's not much audience for it. Take a look at Command and Conquer The Remastered Collection, people only like it for nostalgia and music, not gameplay or pathfinding. There's always people voicing their complaints.

Still, if the game is good, I believe people will be asking for more. Ion Fury tried to get back to the boomer style, and it did got a lot of people talking about it for a while.

[Timmy The Great]

You can complain, but what are your alternatives? are there any new RTS that plays like command and conquer? the latest c&c remaster feels too dated, another upcoming RTS DORF, looks like a mobile game. Appreciate the dev are still willing to make games like this most of these indie dev would just go to the 4x strategy as free to play mobile or paid on steam.

[SnakeMegmarta]

We've had lots of realistic line of sight "having to zoom out until you only see icons of units" modern RTSes or PvP focused ones and I'm tired of them.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Skarrps:

We've had lots of realistic line of sight "having to zoom out until you only see icons of units" modern RTSes or PvP focused ones and I'm tired of them.

Yes, just a basic, but well done gme, will do, thank you very much.

All this game needs to do, is remind the playerbase of Tiberian Sun.