Is it really a rogue-lite?

[Sore]

Does it have permanent unlocks that make you stronger? Or is it one of those fake rogue-lites where you are just unlocking new classes and possible RNG drops?

[Hazmy]

Yes you do unlock permanent upgrades for weapons and heroes and unlock further in-game elements too you can make use of.

[Shrinkshooter]

Origineel geplaatst door Sore:

Does it have permanent unlocks that make you stronger? Or is it one of those fake rogue-lites where you are just unlocking new classes and possible RNG drops?

A roguelite is not fake by focusing on sidegrades. You do not need permanent upgrades and stat increases in order for something to be considered a "true" roguelite.

And of those two methods by which you can implement metaprogression, the sidegrade one is better. Permanent upgrades and stat increases places emphasis on time played over actual skill, rather than making it feasible to win the game on your first run if you're good enough.

[Misanthropy Incarnate]

It does feature permanent unlocks, but they're minor (and in the beta, some of them didn't even work eg. +knockback on a weapon that can't knockback). There were 2 static upgrades per gun, then I think 6 or 9 upgrades per character (of which you could choose 3 max, but slots would be unlocked by completing character quests). The character upgrades were the same skills that could be gained from a levelling station during a run, so it was more like just starting a run with a levelled up character with pre-selected and guaranteed skills (most of which weren't any good).

Since the character upgrades could be acquired during a run, it only made the runs slightly easier. The weapon upgrades were so small that they could be considered negligible and probably ignored.

Then there were meta upgrades like how much scrap can drop in a run. All of those were meaningless.

After about 10 hours I had most of it all unlocked. But around 10% of it felt impactful.

The game was also beaten on the third or 4th attempt, way before unlocking everything. Nothing new ever appeared again and it became super-repetitive very quickly. There was no harder mode, but the bar allowed you to activate one of several unlocked mutators for the run.. (like turrets damage themselves when shooting. which was easy because turrets are kinda useless in the game)

[Lef]

Origineel geplaatst door Sore:

Does it have permanent unlocks that make you stronger? Or is it one of those fake rogue-lites where you are just unlocking new classes and possible RNG drops?

what you call "fake rogue lite" , is just rogue like ....

[Sore]

Origineel geplaatst door Shrinkshooter:

A roguelite is not fake by focusing on sidegrades. You do not need permanent upgrades and stat increases in order for something to be considered a "true" roguelite.

I don't really think the word roguelite has any meaning if it doesn't significantly different from roguelikes in terms of gameplay. Like you said the "lite" part is supposed to make the game easier by removing the emphasis on the RNG.

[Drimble Wedge🐉]

If you old ladies are done with your pedantic ramblings, you should all get some rest.

[Hi11Zone]

Origineel geplaatst door <Error>:

It does feature permanent unlocks, but they're minor (and in the beta, some of them didn't even work eg. +knockback on a weapon that can't knockback). There were 2 static upgrades per gun, then I think 6 or 9 upgrades per character (of which you could choose 3 max, but slots would be unlocked by completing character quests). The character upgrades were the same skills that could be gained from a levelling station during a run, so it was more like just starting a run with a levelled up character with pre-selected and guaranteed skills (most of which weren't any good).

Since the character upgrades could be acquired during a run, it only made the runs slightly easier. The weapon upgrades were so small that they could be considered negligible and probably ignored.

Then there were meta upgrades like how much scrap can drop in a run. All of those were meaningless.

After about 10 hours I had most of it all unlocked. But around 10% of it felt impactful.

The game was also beaten on the third or 4th attempt, way before unlocking everything. Nothing new ever appeared again and it became super-repetitive very quickly. There was no harder mode, but the bar allowed you to activate one of several unlocked mutators for the run.. (like turrets damage themselves when shooting. which was easy because turrets are kinda useless in the game)

that's disappointing

[Shrinkshooter]

Origineel geplaatst door Sore:

I don't really think the word roguelite has any meaning if it doesn't significantly different from roguelikes in terms of gameplay.

Roguelites DO differ significantly from roguelikes. That's why they're called "lites."

Like you said the "lite" part is supposed to make the game easier by removing the emphasis on the RNG.

1. That's not what I said, and I did not mention roguelikes once.

2. A different metaprogression system does not make a roguelite harder or easier overall, it's simply different. That said, those that use the "get bigger, better permanently" design direction often times makes stuff at game start / early game simply unfair or ridiculously tedious, because it's intended you will die and upgrade over and over (which is why it's a worse system). It's "harder" at the beginning but requires more time investment.

You are confused. You are using the word "roguelike" to mean "roguelite with permanent increases in metaprogression." That's not a roguelike, which are games like Cataclysm: DDA, Caves of Qud, Nethack, Rogue and Brogue (hence the name), Angband, DCSS, etc. Go look up all those games and it's patently obvious what they all have in common. Roguelites do not look like or play like those games. edit: oh yeah, Dwarf Fortress as well, one of the most known, though most people don't play the RL gamemode.