Denuvo Master Thread

[Daarkarr0w]

Hey everyone,

We understand the concern of some members of the community regarding Denuvo. This is why we have created this thread to share our official answer and for you to discuss the topic.

Please keep the discussion about this topic on this thread, to keep the rest of the Steam forums for other conversations. Any new thread regarding the topic will be merged into this "master" thread. It will be easier to follow the discussion, not only for you but for us to keep an eye on the topic.

We wanted to start this thread with the official answer.

Originally posted by Astamarr:

Hello Everyone,
I’m Astamarr, the developer responsible for the task of integrating Denuvo DRM to ENDLESS Dungeon. I'll try to answer your concerns about the Denuvo DRM, and what it means to install a game that contains it.

Let me say that I'm first and foremost a player, just like you. I've faced numerous disastrous DRMs implementations during the years, and i know that it can cause a great deal of frustration. With that in mind, I'll try to be as clear and honest as possible in the following statement.

1) First of all, it's important to make a distinction between Denuvo anti-cheat and Denuvo DRM.

Denuvo Anti-Cheat is a software installed on your computer. Every anti-cheat on the market operates like this. They're basically just like antiviruses, scanning your computer hardware and software and doing... stuff to ensure that you're playing fairly.
TED doesn't require this anti-cheat system, or any other one. No third-party software will be installed on your computer.

What we're using in the game is the Denuvo "DRM" solution. It's just some verifications made within the game code. These are basically the same (but more protected) checks that games makes when installed with Steam/Epic/Your favorite store to ensure you did indeed buy the game.

Please note that this doesn't require you to be online at all times, or even for the Denuvo server to be online. Once this check is made, you'll be able to play offline.

2) The second main concern about these DRMs are performances issues. Theses checks can indeed have a great impact on performance. It's pretty easy to understand: if the checks are triggered every time the player makes a basic action (like, for example, moving the character), it'll spam requests non-stop and it'll be disastrous.
On the other hand, if we barely do any checks at all, it'll be pretty easy for hackers to crack the DRM and the whole process will be worthless.

Of course, there is a balance to find here: more checks means a more secure game, but a greater impact on performance.

At Amplitude, we're doing everything necessary to find the perfect balance to have a decently protected game, and to intelligently place requests so that they do not impact performance. This requires time, which is why we are already tackling it now.

We have efficient tools to monitor performance closely, and we will put every effort until release (and after if needed!) to ensure that. Regardless of how things change in the market we will always make sure that our players have access to the game that they have bought.

To summarize, let's say this: we will try our best to avoid that the game gets hacked at release -- because we put a lot of hard work into our games, and we do have bills to pay. We will never compromise on the quality of game, the experience, and the privacy of our players for it.

Please keep the conversation civil and don't enter into personal attacks.

[Rivll]

so another Denuvo addition

rip :D

[Cap'n Darwin]

Just saw that on the store page and it does sour my want to get the game even though I just got the OpenDev invite today. Never been a fan of this anti-tamper software and the problems it causes. Hopefully the Devs may reconsider having this in the package at launch.

[KingTaltia]

Yeah, even if only for the name alone. Denuvo's earned a VERY negative reputation for a reason. There are better choices.

[lukaself]

Denuvo again?

Hey everyone.

After the backlash caused by the announcement of Humankind using Denuvo and the discussions between the developers and the customers which occured, I'm left to wonder what was the point of even acknowledging our concerns - seeing the issues caused by that DRM solution (Unplayable games, performance issues and incompatibilities,), only to use Denuvo again in the next game? Dunno if it's a SEGA mandate and at this point, I'm not sure it matters.

I used to be a big fan of Amplitude, got all the games and additional content day one... I absolutely love the whole "Endless" Universe. However, Denuvo is counter-productive as it's a waste of development resources for no proven benefit. I don't see any incentive for consumers to shoulder the cost of the beliefs of some executive in denial.

DRM & business practices
[Update] Denuvo to be removed for release
The day Amplitude broke my heart (and how they reassembled it)[www.games2gether.com]

[Aradhel]

I am absolutely appalled by the decision of including Denuvo. It will only give pause to people who wanted to buy the game the legit way. I was looking forward to this as I am a fan of the original Dungeon of the Endless but I will refrain to buy a game corrupted by Denuvo.

[redsimonDE]

Once a company embraces Denuvo, you know they are lost and likely won't return to the sphere of good companies. I heard Amplitude removed it from Humankind after customer backlash. Now they're back again at it.

So long Amplitude, it was fun while it lasted.

[Ravoc]

Moved from wishlist to ignore list. Not that it matters much as I have entire SEGA on ignore...

[CheeseBoar]

It looks like this is going to be a trend with everything that SEGA touches.

[spineduke]

There is zero need to put Denuvo on a smaller title like this. Not supporting Amplitude with this crap installed. Huge fan of the original game, but I can easily skip this one - plenty of games out there that don't use this!

[Sabi The Worst Player Ever]

Amplitude started as very good company but under Sega it goes straight into worst "big dev" direction. And why even wasting money on Denuvo, when it gets cracked fast anyway? Just like with anti-cheats, anti-tampers and similar solutions only hurt honest users, while not solving the problem at all.

[Devil Dog]

The Sega part is also likely why there is no demo - you have to submit your e-mail addr to sign up for consideration to get access. Sega works the ad revenue part of this by selling your e-mail addr to advertisers, which is likely more money than what they'll make off the game price.

[Eunostos]

They wanted it in for launch then 'ceded' the point later, this was transparent as heck. So if that middleware is that big a deal to you then sure. Bye.

[Sabi The Worst Player Ever]

Originally posted by Luagha:

They wanted it in for launch then 'ceded' the point later, this was transparent as heck. So if that middleware is that big a deal to you then sure. Bye.

You know that if we wouldn't voice this out, they would most likely simply keep it, don't pretend otherwise.

[Crowtein]

Really hoping it's just for the Open Dev... because I won't install this game while that garbage is required... I thought we were passed these days.

[Tholis]

Was a buy, then Denuvo.. now not. I'm hoping it is only for the open Dev only. For the people having performance issues, I'd start looking there first...