AFK/Fighting deep dive?

[Zio]

Is there a deep dive on this? I'm trying to find better and reliable information but the best that I have is what I know myself and what I know myself naturally does not provide stisfactory answers.

I know people want to beliven in RNGeebus but the bubble is bursted long ago. Random isn't random here. Like time candy alone is making differences if not the various features themselves. Using time candy and card drop rate cards gives absolutely 0% bonus to card drops. I'm getting the same, EXACT same numbers on drops when using time candy, especially cards stay 100% the same. I can excuse regular item drops to be determined by multikill rather than drop rate but there is also a factor that drop rate makes it matter to multikill drop rates too but yeah, I wish there was an actual deep dive that properly explains all the little messed up tidbits. Thought the wiki might be helpful but let's just say it didn't help. Yes, there is a list of bonuses that do/should apply but that doesn't mean any or all of that actually works the way it is written, not to mention the dated information.

Because the gloomie shrroom cave for example is a whole other story again. Like, what exactly is the fighting mechanic here? Because it feels like the game has several different AFK fighitng mechanics at work here, a minimum of 2.
One is the regular, but there is also something that works on a sort of meta level that determines a multiplier to your AFK gains...and apparently another mechanic for the inidividual drops at least for cards and the dragon statues.
The actual drop chance is only of minor concern because while it does matter to a degree to drops, beyond that, drops only come in multitudes not actual drop rate drops.

And then some...I guess...went to my bubonic conjurer (who also has had hours of items lost into the void on that map), 10 hours of AFK gains this time on 25+ drop rate and it got me 144 dragon statues (didn't bother to check cards), my rough average there on this one is 300 per 10 hours. so the 144 is already low BUT I had the afk reroll and it got me 288 statues, sometimes the amount of statues I get from 5-10 (only rarely check less often) hours is exactly 0. So drop rate is definitely NOT the only defining factor here, nobody can tell me that no matter how much certain people who couldn't be arsed to read think they need to point to it. Drop rate is meaningless if this other undisclosed factor says NOPE NO DROPS FOR YOU

Inbetween I thought maybe the issue is the colony size but that wasn't depleted in either of the cases where I got 0 statues. I'm currently running it actively and after 45 minutes I got a WHOPPING one dragon statue...not to mention how the Gloomie card is messing with AFK card set bonus basically making it impossible to get the max tier set bonus.

[Loken Stoneheart]

This isnt going to be entirely helpful because I dont know the *math* behind it, but there is a second system in play--

When afking, there are time thresholds (based on your actual kills per hour (multikill only affects primary drops, I dont *think* kill per kill affects drops?) and drop rate) where you are guaranteed drops.

As far as I know, there arent any systems in play that make you not get drops though. Just bad luck and not reaching a time threshold.

[Zio]

Well you're not wrong! I know *that* those exist but so far they have never been that that disruptive (or disruptive at all really), as far as I know there is the 2 minute minimum afk time, the maximum kill number from before multikill was a thing...for rarer drops, drop rate is a key factor but statues here behave similar to regular drops outside of main monster drops from what I could tell, biggest problem I have with the Gloomie shrooms in particular is that the discrepancies happen on all characters, and it's (as far as I could tell for now) unique to that particular map. In short, even with all characters with similar drop rates, afk gains and times spent, the results vary wildly. And sometimes just 0 statues at all Even with the same character and not changing any parameters, there are heavy fluctuations and entire fallouts of statue drops. Hang on...got some numbers in here.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1476970/discussions/0/592883325571496468/

I think I have all my characters set to fight there but there is a chance I haven't set card sets etc properly because I was in a hurry when I left so results may not be worth too much, but that will have to wait. Was really hoping that maybe someone knows a youtube video or reddit post or whatever where I could get a real deep dive on the numbers and whatnot, I have a different suspicion but I'll leave that out of the door for now...also thought maybe someone from discord knows more/better who might possibly willing to share xD

[(ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook]

I have a feeling the amplification of hp has something to do with effecting their drops. Almost like all the numbers go up or something. The drop chance feels off for me as well, 100%.
I almost always see these statues drop in 100-500 from afk.
I NEVER see less than 100, I never see over 500, I only ever see 100-500 (for ~16 hour afk spans at least, I got more sitting on 3 days)
Half my chars wont drop anything then half will get like 500 or so.
Beyond this, RNG is always able to just be weird. I've had like 0.0000001% chance things happening, likely due to how RNG is coded rather than me just being that unlucky. Even in games like Dota with pseudo random RNG I've had things like 20% chance on hit not happening for 30 attacks. When you're dealing with 1 in 100k with like 12m kills I imagine it wont be straightforward.
I do know that multikill isnt a straight forward 1:1 drop rate increase every time.

I think the best active farm for gloomie shrooms is seige breaker unless someone has some way of lowering BM's respawn skill low enough.
Otherwise my Bubo is roughly reviving enemies right before they would spawn anyways. Havent tried loading him down with respawn boosting chips but it feels like archers active farm the cave shrooms best.

As for where I am now, I've MOSTLY completed the current cave. I still have a LOT of conjurer points needed and wishes to push but I've basically unlocked and pumped most other stats.
I onyx'd the statues and am just kind of slow burning while Lava is taking it slow for holiday.

Guarantee if you dive into the endgame channel on discord you may find some spreadsheets for some of this stuff. I wanted to see what else the bravery monument could give and saw someone broke down your chances per wave of getting each type of upgrade and what severity of upgrade you'll get and all this stuff. I'm personally not interested in understanding the game to that level but the information is there if you need to understand it.

I've got 28x drop rate, getting like 14m kills getting 400 statues. But if I were to plug that into a calculator using lazy math I should be getting like 3.9k. But again thats not going to be how its coded.

https://idleon.wiki/wiki/Drop_Rate

(Luck-1000/luck+2500) *.5 +0.297

[Zio]

Initially didn't want to say much because reasons but oh well here I am...again...
Yeah I abandoned all faith in RNGeebus (not that I had any to begin bwith but still) when I learned that chip choices up for purchase in the lab shop are not actually random xD with other stuff inbetween here and there. As well as something like you mentioned with the 20%. In the early days of the farming skill I was weirdly stuck on a certain crop beyond reason. Another such case occurred the other day sometime after Lava adding more crops, next crop chance was at something like 30% but even after dozens of attempts it didn't go up. Leaving the screen and getting back in made it possible to actually evolve again.

Though I suspect that is the same style if not same kind of "bug" that leads to alchemy thinking a bubble stat is at 0 when a stat is around or exactly at 100%. Rounding is not the game's stron suit but luckily it's not all a big deal, still annoying and a proper explanation would be at least that, an explanation. Fixing such bugs and stuff is a whole other story though, ♥♥♥♥ happens.

Behind the scenes math needs to be classified as a secret boss in the game though :P
I'd have to go through my thoughts and all regarding drop applications but I think iirc the game makes a distinction between several types items/drop types, in the very least basic item drops, common/uncommon drops and rare drops. I think quest drops mostly work like item drops, at least I get big chunks of followers from daily event bosses that feel like set multitudes (albeit rounded) of regular monster drops like I experienced with the megalodon teeth dropping at the gloomy shroom for some reason (most likely bug but who knows)

Is siege breaker really that good there? Always feel like they're too slow and the flag/coin bit not working in my favour enough for that (if at all, haven't tested much playing actively there anyway). (side note: just went in with my beginner, 3 ish hours, 21 dcards, 0 statues) Though I get why divine knight guy has their respawn dispelled it stii sucks a little, same for the elemental sorcerer, bubonic conjurer works the most satisfying for me so far though I haven't done testing/comparisons with my archers but I guess it is worth a try.
Just set all my characters there to onyx the statue (7k left), last batch all 9 DID drop statues and also between 100-300 (I think, was 18 hours and most of their drop rates are only ~22...
so after my 3 hours of AFK I went to my 10th char with 9,5 hours and got 0 statues again...
next 326 with 24 drop rate
next 124 / 22
next 276 / 23,5
next 289 / 26
next 0 / 21
next 0 / 26

My current progress is all over the place, trying to catch up on stuff. Only the other day brought alchemy overall to 2100 and before I had my main collect eclipse skulls, still have a lot of them but maxed a bunch of meals and only withdrew them to get the dragon statues first after all, cooking is my absolute LOWEST overall skill but I also shamefully just the other day got 120 in trapping for my main...and I just realised part of that might be because it's not gaining XP properly, sheesh...but oh well, whatever, last cage was the goal and that's where that character is xD

And yeah I was hoping for that kind of of explanation that you described to be possible in the discord, hoped maybe someone would share :P But oh well if not, then not.
I'm just not the discord person, that I'm active as much as I am on Steam here and elsewhere is also close to a miracle...even though I feel my desire to participate...dissipate...along with other things...depression and stuff...was close to just scrapping this at least 3 times but thought maybe it's good for someone for something sooooo whatever, have fun folks and keep reaching for that rainbow!

[Zio]

Also out of nowhere lost some 0,5 drop rate bonus for no reason? But no big deal, just got lucky with the golden cake recipe

[(ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook]

Some bonuses seem to calculate weird. Some days they're right some they're not
We also have weekly changing buffs these days and so much gear to share between characters if you really want to minmax it.

I've been consistent over time with pumping my siege breakers multiplicative drop rate boost

[Zio]

Originally posted by (ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook:

Some bonuses seem to calculate weird. Some days they're right some they're not
We also have weekly changing buffs these days and so much gear to share between characters if you really want to minmax it.

I've been consistent over time with pumping my siege breakers multiplicative drop rate boost

Yeah sometimes it's just bonuses NOT applying for some reason, I've seen even just my damage fluctuate without changing anything myself, I'm super used to that here. With a million billion different stats and cross references, something is bound to break somewhere down the line, blessings are wild to begin with...at least as far as I could tell most of the universal upgrades seem to work at all times as they're supposed to, which is why I'm very glad to have gotten the golden cake recipe, didn't know it existed. I knew I was missing *a* recipe but I try to get through stuff blind so I didn't look up just whatnew content brings in the details. Didn't think I'd ever get golden cake anywhere number wise and actually finding this feels like a game changer especially since the beanstalk will turn it into a universal upgrade

My main is actually the beast master (currently) I'm a big sucker for archer types, I have 2 siege breakers but they just feel...lacking...but then again I never did a reassessment since getting auto loot, maybe it'll change my view, thanks for the input.

edit: btw I just got 604 statues with that one after 19ish hours of AFK so more than 500 is possible, 25,42 drop rate...my bubonic conjuror just got 144 with 25,87 drop rate after 32 minutes of AFK...no comments.
No zeroes from the close to 20 hour ones today though but the lowest was just slightly above 100, forgot to turn off the 10 hour lock prayer on that one...

2nd edit: just going through half hour afk gains and only one of them got statues but still 100+ so I guess to maximise your dragon statue wield you want to fetch afk gains as often as possible for what time you consistently get any at all, wild guess here is something between 30 and 60 minutes, would take some testing to get a sweet spot or something so you hit the least amount of zeroes in between, but longer afk times are definitely not helping as much as they should be. So yeah, basically, I was right, there is at least one more multiplier here active and it's not friendly. Got my 20 though so whatever for now

[Sov1et|KBAC☭]

имба

[(ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook]

By the way, saw on reddit someone has 63/72 plant evos, so it is possible its just slow as christmas.
With cavern boosts to gaming I'm going to go for it. I've progressed massively and gotten lucky with snail. Lets see how it goes.

[Zio]

Originally posted by (ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook:

By the way, saw on reddit someone has 63/72 plant evos, so it is possible its just slow as christmas.
With cavern boosts to gaming I'm going to go for it. I've progressed massively and gotten lucky with snail. Lets see how it goes.

Good luck with it, though it's very reasonable now I guess and it's pretty safe to say that they weren't possible until very recently. Tried again because of your post and got 2 stage 7 plants within seconds, the rest is a bit shy but I only need 2 to get to 63 now...and who know how long until the full thing :P

[Zio]

I'm at 64 btw. Haven't taken the time but it took like forever even with the current super speed and instant regrowths with Kitsune Roxie. Left a chemical plant in the top left corner, the easiest seeing how it's ignored with pick all, evolved yesterday. Have now filled my garden with trees and bushes and crossed fingers. Just judging from the 250x as rare to the 5000x as rare jump, and seeing how it took me literal seconds to get the 7th level for some plants, this is worse than just 5000. But it is possible now at least. So again, good luck (to us all)

[(ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook]

I saw people in endgame chat with every plant. So its definitely possible.

Funny story, I was getting the last few before the last upgrade and a single evo 4-5 cactus shot a mushroom up to max evo.
Its just insane luck to have happened but I 100% know I saw it happen.

[Zio]

WELL! Some bugs are actually good for plants you know! Just kidding, I have no doubt that happened, and I say that unironically as much as it might sound different. Things happen. Sometimes bad, sometimes good. Congrats and best of luck going forward! (I'm actually trying to reduce my presence here as close to zere as possible but felt like this warranted response/s...you know, just in case I possibly WON'T, going forward...)

[(ง ͡ʘ ͜ʖ ͡ʘ)งBonesMcSpook]

I enjoy talking about the game now and then. Im banned on discord for silly reasons and cant even read general chat anymore. Its a shame.

[Zio]

Yeah talking on eye level etc is always a plus, more or less, and no surprise, I'd probably be dead on arrival there xD
Just part of why I aim for zero here though, I have to limit my exposure to people in general. People are *lacking* and my social anxiety will enjoy the space.

Enjoy what you can!