Character Build Questions

[misterbill5]

What are players doing in terms of character build? My initial thought is to acquire fighter/melee/archery skills along with some alchemy and some magic to support that. Or do you need to specialize in one or the other? I am just starting in the first town after being booted from the ship, so thinking a balanced approach may be best, but what is your experience on that?

[VectorX]

It's not really needed to stress out about builds in this game. Just do whatever you feel like. I ended up with a one-handed melee focused character with alchemy, blacksmithing and pickpocketing maxed out while also having learned all hunting throphies and first circle of magic. Had 200+ strength and a bunch of dex, by the end I had so many learning points remaining I didn't know what to do with them so I just spent them all on Adonos statue lol
There's a ridiculous amount of content in this mod so you level up alot meaning you shouldn't worry about learning points, just try stuff out.
The only thing that needs planning in this game is if you want to go full magic because learning all circles + enough mana to cast stuff while also having combat skills to support that would be pain, wouldn't recommend that for first playthrough. Planning to do that on my second playthrough sometime later.

[misterbill5]

Thanks! I was thinking mining might be useful too for gathering materials used to make weapons and armor...Sounds like Generalist with many skills is the way to go for first playthrough...

[VectorX]

Originally posted by misterbill5:

Thanks! I was thinking mining might be useful too for gathering materials used to make weapons and armor...Sounds like Generalist with many skills is the way to go for first playthrough...

Extraction (mining, fishing and woodcutting) doesn't cost LP, you either pay money to a teacher or just do those activities for random extraction % increases. Lockpicking also doesn't cost LP, only money once you find teachers.

[Lonsarg]

"helper skills" are cheap and its recommended to learn most of them:
- skinning ABSOLUTELLY
- acrobatics absolutelly (if DEX build you will get it auto if high enough, if STR you buy extra)
- blacksmith if melee or hybrid
- bowmaking if ranged or hybrid
- alchemy always worth it (all spent points in learning return as perma potions and even extra profit)
- lockpicking you get via main quest, lvl2 upgrade is worth it, lvl3 is not
- pickpocketing if you want to pickpocket, i find it tedious so i didnt learn

For weapon skill be more carefull:
- chose one main weapon and only level that one above 30 ( but its ok to learn secondary to 30, maybe even more in late game but not before)

For stat you also need to focus mostly on one (STR, DEX or MANA), but it is ok to spend a little on secondary. In late game you can easily pump 2 of them.

[The Commissar]

Just remember, at the beginning you should always get proficiency in your weapon(s) of choice over raw stat (str/dex) increases

[Local Jerk]

Originally posted by VectorX:

It's not really needed to stress out about builds in this game. Just do whatever you feel like. I ended up with a one-handed melee focused character with alchemy, blacksmithing and pickpocketing maxed out while also having learned all hunting throphies and first circle of magic. Had 200+ strength and a bunch of dex, by the end I had so many learning points remaining I didn't know what to do with them so I just spent them all on Adonos statue lol
There's a ridiculous amount of content in this mod so you level up alot meaning you shouldn't worry about learning points, just try stuff out.
The only thing that needs planning in this game is if you want to go full magic because learning all circles + enough mana to cast stuff while also having combat skills to support that would be pain, wouldn't recommend that for first playthrough. Planning to do that on my second playthrough sometime later.

BS. You probably already knew all the systems in place. If the OP doesn't know them, he might end up like all the ppl complaining about their builds being underpowered.

[VectorX]

Originally posted by Local Jerk:

Originally posted by VectorX:

It's not really needed to stress out about builds in this game. Just do whatever you feel like. I ended up with a one-handed melee focused character with alchemy, blacksmithing and pickpocketing maxed out while also having learned all hunting throphies and first circle of magic. Had 200+ strength and a bunch of dex, by the end I had so many learning points remaining I didn't know what to do with them so I just spent them all on Adonos statue lol
There's a ridiculous amount of content in this mod so you level up alot meaning you shouldn't worry about learning points, just try stuff out.
The only thing that needs planning in this game is if you want to go full magic because learning all circles + enough mana to cast stuff while also having combat skills to support that would be pain, wouldn't recommend that for first playthrough. Planning to do that on my second playthrough sometime later.

BS. You probably already knew all the systems in place. If the OP doesn't know them, he might end up like all the ppl complaining about their builds being underpowered.

How could I have known that? Do you believe me to be some kind of a magic man? I know games before I even play them? It's really hard for me to imagine how your build can end up being underpowered, people complaining probably simply never bothered to learn the combat system.

[misterbill5]

Lots of good information here. Thanks all!

[eldercom]

Even if you are a fighter or an archer, you have your mana pool anyway. I would aim at 200-250 mana eventually, and this is only from free passives (no brewing, no learning), which is nearly a half of pure mage's mana pool. So it would be a mistake to ignore it entirely.
IDK about rebalance, which is due to be realeased pretty soon, but as it stands now there is a huge gap between 2 and 3 circle in terms of damaging spells. Like at 2 circle damaging spells are pretty useles, and starting from 3 circle they totally devastate everything. And since 3 circle requires extra 40 LP to learn, Im not sure youll be picking it as a warrior, although it is definitely an option. So we are talking more of a support magic rather than offensive.
So these are spells which would be useful as a support for a fighter:

Circle 1 - 20 LP

- Light healing. This one is obvious and most useful. Without investing in mana you will be able to heal for 200-250, 6 times in a row, which is very nice. First it is free extra heal, which will save some resources, second you can use it during combat without the need to open your inventory. It is a shame that Medium heal is locked behind 3 circle, because it would be really helpful for a hybrid while pure mage dont need anything above Light healing.

- Create light - very useful for fighting in dark areas, because you cant fight with a torch. Also very convinient to explore without the need to use torches

- Summon wolf. Yep, it is quite weak, but it is a good distraction both in combat and for NPCs. You can stun-lock some enemies like golems or bears, teaming them with your wolf. Although note, that it is not a regular wolf, it is tougher and can handle i.e. NPCs wich are worth 200 exp 1 on 1. And if it kills anybody, it is not considered a crime (although do remember that he will be gone for good). And in towns NPC will ignore certain actions while being under attack of your summon, i.e. I was able to beat the crap out of fire mages and no one was giving a ♥♥♥♥

Circle 2 - extra 30 LP

- Telekinesis. Quite obvious, you can use it to find and get unreachable items. You can do it even through walls, so you can get something you shouldnt be able to get. And as far as I know there are not a lot of Telekinesis scrolls in the game

- Open Locks. Not that much useful, but still. If you hate lockpicks or have low DEX.

- Better summon (Snapper)

- Whirlwind. Can hold your enemies in place. Although if Im not mistaken they can still attack you in melee and it doesnt work on larger enemies. Useful for ranged builds I would say

- Wind fist. Costs ridiculous amount of mana (I could never understand mana costs of charged spells in gothic games) for a mediocre gamage, takes ages to charge up, but throws your enemy back which can give you an edge in a fight

Circle 3 - extra 40 LP

- Ice block. Completely freezes your enemy, it cannot move or attack - would be really useful as a support skill for anybody and it is a shame that it is locked behind 3 circle

- Better summon (Bear)

- Medium heal - again would be very useful for a Hybrid, it should be 2 circle honestly

- Geyzer - 220 points of AOE goodness for only 30 mana. You are not a mage but still


Also you can copy some scrolls and use them without learning any circles. The most notable for a warrior here would be Ice block. But of cource resources for this are not ifinite and cost money

[The Commissar]

No damage on 2nd circle?!? A fully charged wind fist can one-shot A GROUP of wargs. Again. That’s one-shorting an entire group of wargs at chapter 2

Ice lance is also 100 damage for 15 mana

[eldercom]

Originally posted by The Commissar:

No damage on 2nd circle?!? A fully charged wind fist can one-shot A GROUP of wargs. Again. That’s one-shorting an entire group of wargs at chapter 2

Ice lance is also 100 damage for 15 mana

I already added it to the list. Yes, it is rather strong and can give you some possibilities at that point, but
1. It is very boring and annoying to charge, so I would rather consider it some special case spell rather than you regular everyday normal spell
2. Mana cost is ridiculous compared to insta casting spells. This is the problem of all the charged spells in G2 and here. For the life of me I cannot understand it. Just why? Whats the point? You are already punished with long charging time but on top op that you also get ridiculous mana cost. So again it cannot be used as a regular spell.

Regardind the Ice Lance. You get 100 damage for 15 mana. Ok, you can bump it up to like 150 damage with equipment, since you cant use mana regen at that point anyway. But with a bow I got already 130 DEX at that point (and I was a pure mage, so no brewing for DEX, and I only put 20 LP in DEX out of habit), so pure fighter will have even more. So even with crappy 130/130 bow you could easily do 260 damage at that point. Well Ice lance could be good, I loved it in NOTR, but in NOTR everything above blooodfly didnt have ridiculous resistance to magic. This was the whole point of magic: the numbers were low, but mobs had low to no resistance against it. And if it was resistant you could always switch to another type of magic (magic/fire). Here you are locked with only one type of damage and until like 200 damage you can hardly scratch anything decent.

So I ended up using only Wind fist in special cases (like shadowbeasts, which was annoying and clunky, but at least it worked) and bow for everything else, so also a hybrid. It was fine, I am used to run with a bow on mage cause spells were too expensive in NOTR. At least I can be a pure mage from 4 chapter

[N.Nihilovicz]

Originally posted by Lonsarg:

"helper skills" are cheap and its recommended to learn most of them:
- skinning ABSOLUTELLY
- acrobatics absolutelly (if DEX build you will get it auto if high enough, if STR you buy extra)
- blacksmith if melee or hybrid
- bowmaking if ranged or hybrid
- alchemy always worth it (all spent points in learning return as perma potions and even extra profit)
- lockpicking you get via main quest, lvl2 upgrade is worth it, lvl3 is not
- pickpocketing if you want to pickpocket, i find it tedious so i didnt learn

For weapon skill be more carefull:
- chose one main weapon and only level that one above 30 ( but its ok to learn secondary to 30, maybe even more in late game but not before)

For stat you also need to focus mostly on one (STR, DEX or MANA), but it is ok to spend a little on secondary. In late game you can easily pump 2 of them.

I've picket most of the mentioned skills. Needs to be mentioned that the primary value of pickpocketing lies not in stealing from pockets as such, but due to stealth which allows to rob many chests in the houses without triggering their inhabitants, or even use it in combat by sneaking up to a sleeping mob or an unaware one from behind to land the first blow and take the initiative.

As for me, I have risked to make quite a 'multitask' build. I've trained basic stats only to the level of the optimal LP spending (str/dex/mag - 40/30/30) and tried to push it further with the abundance of permastat bonuses (which has mostly worked, totals are ~ 160/120/218 at lvl 44). I've learned all the 4 circles of magic and put the focus on 2h (it is good if the total is at least 60) and, much later, - crossbows.
Found out ice block + high damage melee weapon make life much easier (+ geyser if enemies like to charge in groups).
I've taken all the skills for trophy collection (which took quite a bit of LPs), got acrobatics from high dex (but totally worth learning if there are no plans to raise it over 90), maxed alchemy (which a major source of permastat bonuses), and kept blacksmithing at basic (but, since it seems to be much less good 2h weapons found around, prob will max it closer to the end game).

[eldercom]

You dont have to learn pickpocket for sneaking, you also get it for free when learning to take pelts. But 1-2 level of pickpocket is good anyway

[Echidna]

Mage builds have a somewhat more rough start, 1h and xbow are the easiest builds. Either way, your armor has the biggest impact on difficulty so as long as you have good armor you won't have too much trouble.

[The Commissar]

Originally posted by commdt:

I already added it to the list. Yes, it is rather strong and can give you some possibilities at that point, but
1. It is very boring and annoying to charge, so I would rather consider it some special case spell rather than you regular everyday normal spell

Fair enough. I agree that i has a special use, mainly an early game aoe wipe spell.

Originally posted by commdt:

2. Mana cost is ridiculous compared to insta casting spells. This is the problem of all the charged spells in G2 and here. For the life of me I cannot understand it. Just why? Whats the point? You are already punished with long charging time but on top op that you also get ridiculous mana cost. So again it cannot be used as a regular spell.

Weeeell, it has to do with damage potential. spending 80 mana for 300 damage may not sound too much, but what most people forget is that most of the charge spells are a cone AOE or some other type of AOE. Breaking it down mathematically, Say i hit 4 wargs with a single charged cast of wind fist. The damage output is then a combined 1200 damage (300*4) for 80 mana, which i would call quite a steal at that point in the game.

Originally posted by commdt:

Regardind the Ice Lance.... (shortened down for spacing. okay damage but bad against creatures with resistances to water spells)

I think that's a fair critique, weaknesses and resistances carry a lot more weight in the mod than the base game (a change i think would be incredibly positive with a few tweaks). It would be perfect if had access to a bigger repertoire as a mage, at the beginning of the game to take full advantage of that. I'd argue that you have a temporary fix in terms of spell scrolls and the ability to copy most of them, but it is a mechanic that not a lot of people really like.

So fair dues i guess.

Originally posted by commdt:

So I ended up using only Wind fist in special cases (like shadowbeasts, which was annoying and clunky, but at least it worked) and bow for everything else. It was fine, I am used to run with a bow on mage cause spells were too expensive in NOTR. At least I can be a pure mage from 4 chapter

Actually i think wind fist is supposed to do LESS damage to bigger NPC's and MORE damage to smaller, more frail ones.