Appretinceships

[BrusLee]

Hi!
Just curious about appretinceships in the city.
How many of them is there + what are the benefits.

I know about:
Herslik = Alchemy (750xp for getting the job)
He can teach you alchemy for 10LP + 0G.
You can sell him potions for high price.

Odgar = Blacksmithing (750xp for getting the job)
He can teach you BS for 10LP + 0G.
You can sell him crafted weapons for higher price.
Javelin sold for 400 instead of 150.
But you can sell it this way only once so...

Frida = Bowyer (750xp for getting the job)
She will teach you Bowmaking for free.
And she will buy skins for double compared to before.

Davis = Carpenter (400xp for getting the job)
You can learn from him for 0G+0LP(Completely free skill) Rank 2 Pick locking.
He will buy any stolen valuable from you, gold/silver etc.
Gold ring 38 from normal vendor, he buys it for 83.

Slager = Butcher (750xp for getting the job)
He can teach you gutting animals for free. (If you did not learn it before from hunters..)
He will buy from you meat + fat from animals for way higher price than normal.
50g for bear meat vs 8g

I do not know why Carpenter gives only 400xp.. but tested it few times. :shrug:

Based on this and my gamestyle..
I do not craft tons of pots I would be willing to sell. Can learn Alchemy elsewhere.
I do not want to craft every single kind of weapons, and deal with all materials around it for some % profit.
So no Alchemy + BS for sure...

After testing Carpenter + Butcher.. it seems like butcher is way more profitable..
I steal what I can and still it made from start to this point just 1400g in valuables.
Meanwhile from butcher I got 4990g and that is after cooking anytime I can get some dish together.
Considering all dead animals you will go through the game..
For me Bowyer is best money making after "Javelin" craft.
I got to test how much meat I actually need for food and cooking... if I can sell majority (as what I have rn in inventory..) then butcher would be great combination for it.

[Smartik1]

Carpenter is locksmith, he is in a house right across from the blacksmith.
Butcher is out on the main street as you walk out of the area where the blacksmith is.

[BrusLee]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Carpenter is locksmith, he is in a house right across from the blacksmith.
Butcher is out on the main street as you walk out of the area where the blacksmith is.

Ahh thank you.
I guess from the conversation I had with the carpenter..
Carpenter = more gold from.. selling stolen stuff or something?
Butcher.. I guess he buys meat from me for full price?

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by BrusLee:

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Carpenter is locksmith, he is in a house right across from the blacksmith.
Butcher is out on the main street as you walk out of the area where the blacksmith is.

Ahh thank you.
I guess from the conversation I had with the carpenter..
Carpenter = more gold from.. selling stolen stuff or something?
Butcher.. I guess he buys meat from me for full price?

Yup, carpenter buys all the gold/silver decors and butcher buys meats.

[BrusLee]

Soo in the end it is..
Herslik = Alchemy = Probably easier rank 2 Alch? + bonus gold? Some erm alchemy recipes hard to get without him?
Odgar = Blacksmithing = Probably easier rank 2 BS? + bonus gold? Will he buy some weapons for full price?
Frida = Bowyer = Rank 2 Bowmaking = no bonus gold? Or more money for skins/trophys?
Carpenter = Bonus gold from stealing
Butcher = Bonus gold from hunting

Not sure what to pick rn.

[Волчоночек]

Hunter aprentice soung like good deal, you kill a LOT of animals

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by Волчоночек:

Hunter aprentice soung like good deal, you kill a LOT of animals

Always depends on what you are after:
Alchemist - popular option if you want first 2 tiers of Alchemy for free (3rd comes free in Chapter 4 if you want to save the 2.5k cost). You can always get the last tier (or all 3) from Bodowin.
Carpenter - if you steal a lot
Hunter - if you learned skinning

Butcher is not very attractive. Blacksmithing/Bowyer seems a bit unnecessary considering the game throws free weapons at you left and right.

[BrusLee]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Butcher is not very attractive. Blacksmithing/Bowyer seems a bit unnecessary considering the game throws free weapons at you left and right.

Well There is ton of meat from animals you hunt. Hunter + Butcher are somewhat synchronized. But if you cook a lot I guess you do not want to sell all meat.

Game throws at you new weapons left right that is.. true. But best weapons are generally crafted in all Gothic games if I recall?

Also.. well you get better weapons faster with lower dex/str.

Right now I am torn between Bowyer / Alchemist / Carpenter..
I have a lot of golden stuff I did not sell under price..
But I already could use better bow and I like idea of being hunter apprentice. But alchemy is quite often powerfull tool..

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by BrusLee:

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Butcher is not very attractive. Blacksmithing/Bowyer seems a bit unnecessary considering the game throws free weapons at you left and right.

Well There is ton of meat from animals you hunt. Hunter + Butcher are somewhat synchronized. But if you cook a lot I guess you do not want to sell all meat.

Game throws at you new weapons left right that is.. true. But best weapons are generally crafted in all Gothic games if I recall?

Also.. well you get better weapons faster with lower dex/str.

Right now I am torn between Bowyer / Alchemist / Carpenter..
I have a lot of golden stuff I did not sell under price..
But I already could use better bow and I like idea of being hunter apprentice. But alchemy is quite often powerfull tool..

Permanent potions taken early in the game are nuts, especially if you can find enough King's Sorrel. I took Alchemy for the first 2 free upgrades and then paid Bodowin for master tier. Have to say it was worth it. I didn't learn skinning (at all) this run because I wanted to get magic sooner and it seemed like too big of an investment. I've been fine with tier 1 blacksmith skill and using the Javelin crafting method which was enough to live off of this whole time by itself. Would probably be drowning in money now if I took skinning too.

I feel like by endgame you will be so OP that a crafted weapon won't make a noticeable difference on top of a standard wep as a ton of the damage will come from your stats and not the weapon.

[BrusLee]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

I feel like by endgame you will be so OP that a crafted weapon won't make a noticeable difference on top of a standard wep as a ton of the damage will come from your stats and not the weapon.

That sounds interesting hmm.
Well I kind of suck at this kind of thing..
36h in the game.. chapter 2 and still in 10/10 armor while having 3k gold because I just refuse to pay for armor for some dumb reason..
I got skinning same as bs..
But only bows to 30% trained lol.. I really have to start learning stuff.. got only dex + bows, no melee weapon.. so I have quite hard time to kill anything that is able to survive my arrows..
I would like to try magic but I guess I would just waste points and not get far.. even if I have quite a lot of runes and books :-/ next time I guess :-)

What would you recommend for a "archer" to get?
I saw some posts about getting both Xbows and bows to 30% for some reason, and still have melee weapon.. I guess that I should have done from start..

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by BrusLee:

Originally posted by Smartik1:

I feel like by endgame you will be so OP that a crafted weapon won't make a noticeable difference on top of a standard wep as a ton of the damage will come from your stats and not the weapon.

That sounds interesting hmm.
Well I kind of suck at this kind of thing..
36h in the game.. chapter 2 and still in 10/10 armor while having 3k gold because I just refuse to pay for armor for some dumb reason..
I got skinning same as bs..
But only bows to 30% trained lol.. I really have to start learning stuff.. got only dex + bows, no melee weapon.. so I have quite hard time to kill anything that is able to survive my arrows..
I would like to try magic but I guess I would just waste points and not get far.. even if I have quite a lot of runes and books :-/ next time I guess :-)

What would you recommend for a "archer" to get?
I saw some posts about getting both Xbows and bows to 30% for some reason, and still have melee weapon.. I guess that I should have done from start..

There is a money making guide revolving around spending 10 LP on blacksmithing and crafting Javelins. They take 2 wood + 2 iron ore each and sell for 120 without even being an apprentice. If you pay for extraction, you can craft ~3 javelins from a single tree/iron node so that's 360 gold each time. There is a money making guide on steam which has a map of iron ore nodes and fallen trees. I suggest not harvesting them until extraction is high (it pays for itself very fast) otherwise you waste a lot of resources. All overworld resources respawn in Chapter 3 and Chapter 5 so you can do it 3x during a playthrough. I've crafted 200 Javelins (24k worth) already by Chapter 4 and I found out about the respawn late.

In terms of build, Dex bows are known to be really weak because they don't have penetration and some mobs are immune (skeletons are hard apparently). That's why Xbows are recommended for now. You can get a ton of free STR/DEX from Araxos mine (+6-7 each run by buying snack packs from the mined gold ore). The ore also respawns multiple times during the game so you can get free stats each time.

Magic is a huge LP investment. If you don't plan to be a mage, using scrolls is better (they have super low mana cost and no circle requirement). Some people have been clearing the game with Lightning scrolls without being mages as they can kill the toughest beasts easily.

Leather armor for 700 gold is a great investment even without the upgrade, otherwise if you get yourself into Guards or Araxos quickly enough, you get a free starter armor from them (and later upgraded armor) all for free.

You can get free stats from food:
25 Apples = +1 STR
25 Raspberries = +1 DEX
50 Dark Mushrooms = +5 Mana

[Niras]

6 If I remember correctly:
blacksmith, alchemist, bowyer, locksmith and butcher
Benifeats:
- Rank 2 in skill related to the job(it's free If I remember correctly),
- Easy money (for example smith gives you couple hundred gold for 1 copy of each crafted weapon)

[BrusLee]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Leather armor for 700 gold is a great investment even without the upgrade, otherwise if you get yourself into Guards or Araxos quickly enough, you get a free starter armor from them (and later upgraded armor) all for free.

This will sound dumb probably.. but I am 40h in game.. did not join anything and played most of the time (like 30h) with sailors 5/5 armor then upgraded to some armor from dead guy 15/15..
Ay I should have got that armor you mentioned :) I thought that money will be problem.. with 3k in pocket.. I just though "ok I will be joining someone near enough.. no need to buy armor now"

Originally posted by Smartik1:

In terms of build, Dex bows are known to be really weak because they don't have penetration and some mobs are immune (skeletons are hard apparently). That's why Xbows are recommended for now.

Wait wait wait..
In the books about skeletons it was basically written "it is hard to hit bones" with ranged, I though that it is a problem for both.. Xbows + Bows.
So.. going Xbows you can actually kill skeletons?

I have found so many skeleton goblins and even skeleton shadow cat... and I have literally no idea how to kill them with my current style of playing..
Xbow can solve that? o.o

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by BrusLee:

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Leather armor for 700 gold is a great investment even without the upgrade, otherwise if you get yourself into Guards or Araxos quickly enough, you get a free starter armor from them (and later upgraded armor) all for free.

This will sound dumb probably.. but I am 40h in game.. did not join anything and played most of the time (like 30h) with sailors 5/5 armor then upgraded to some armor from dead guy 15/15..
Ay I should have got that armor you mentioned :) I thought that money will be problem.. with 3k in pocket.. I just though "ok I will be joining someone near enough.. no need to buy armor now"

Originally posted by Smartik1:

In terms of build, Dex bows are known to be really weak because they don't have penetration and some mobs are immune (skeletons are hard apparently). That's why Xbows are recommended for now.

Wait wait wait..
In the books about skeletons it was basically written "it is hard to hit bones" with ranged, I though that it is a problem for both.. Xbows + Bows.
So.. going Xbows you can actually kill skeletons?

I have found so many skeleton goblins and even skeleton shadow cat... and I have literally no idea how to kill them with my current style of playing..
Xbow can solve that? o.o

Unfortunately I can't answer that as I play a mage. Both STR and DEX can also use melee weapons. I suspect skeletons will have high Edge resistance so you might need a blunt weapon. I saw a thread about someone asking whether there are any DEX blunt weapons. Based on what I found in the wild, there are extremely few (e.g. 1H Gigus 100 DEX 110 Blunt dmg) but think that was a story weapon. 2H Head Smasher is another (115 DEX 145 Blunt).

[BrusLee]

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Unfortunately I can't answer that as I play a mage.

Thanks for answering anyway :-)
Also.. how exactly do you play mage?
I want to try it next run probably but.. to be frank I have no idea how to play "early game".
I was skimpy with LP for my archer style.. that still allowed me to craft bow and shoot.. you have no mana at start, spells from runes are gathered through the game..

How do you start with a mage? I believe you need some str to even wield staffs so.. some str for starter and normal melee and just.. wait with LP for higher circle magic, or spending it on the altar for mana?

[Smartik1]

Originally posted by BrusLee:

Originally posted by Smartik1:

Unfortunately I can't answer that as I play a mage.

Thanks for answering anyway :-)
Also.. how exactly do you play mage?
I want to try it next run probably but.. to be frank I have no idea how to play "early game".
I was skimpy with LP for my archer style.. that still allowed me to craft bow and shoot.. you have no mana at start, spells from runes are gathered through the game..

How do you start with a mage? I believe you need some str to even wield staffs so.. some str for starter and normal melee and just.. wait with LP for higher circle magic, or spending it on the altar for mana?

That's where you touched on the whole push to seriously rebalance mages. The start as you said is a massive pain.

1. The first trainer only teaches mana till 30 while summon wolf needed 40 so you couldn't get a tank/dps help (now updated to just 30 mana needed).
2. You need multiple books per circle (2 for first, +1 for each next) which you have to find. This was the next issue because you can't start without the full set so as you said you have to melee without STR or melee proficiency. My suggestion was to strip 1 book from each circle so you can learn the first circle right away and actually do magic and it would bring costs down to the same as Gothic 1 and Gothic 2 (here each circle costs 10 LP more than the other games so you waste 40 LP by Circle 4). I'd also love for a merchant to actually be accessible from the start so you could sacrifice early game gold for early game magic.
3. The runes are scattered so there is already a thread in the discussions here tracking the locations in case you need something specific. At the start you can't buy them, you can only find them (same as books) so if you don't know where to look, you are stuck with melee. In later chapters few NPCs sell the full set of books and most runes, but you always get them way later than you would need them unless you find them in the wild. I'm in Chapter 4 and still don't have the 4th Circle due to lack of books.
4. A lot of early mages start by getting scroll scribing and use scroll magic. To me that is not sustainable considering how much hp mobs have. My first test with the first rune, I cast 11 lesser lightnings on a forest scavenger and he had 40% hp left. To fight 3 Goblin skeletons I had to make 9 runs back to an Adanos shrine to refill mana. Early combat involves a ton of backtracking to Adanos shrines / beds because it would take way too many consumables to refill the bar once (10 wines per 1 mana bar that can take out 2 mobs by midgame).

There is a ridiculous jump in power at the end of Chapter 3 (Old town access to mana regen merchant) / Early chapter 4 (legit access to Circle 3 book in Wolf's Den) from tedious backtracking and mana management to becoming the god of everything that eats shadowbeasts and adult trolls for breakfast. This is because of Geyser rune (massive AoE damage for 30 mana) and mana regeneration accessories. I'd love to see higher early damage with more rune variety (no fire runes here at all, all previous Gothic games besides NotR had way more damage per unit of mana) and lower endgame insanity to have steady progression instead of the current "noob to god from one day to the next".

Staffs have a mana requirement so you can melee...in theory. In practice, the stat requirement is higher than dmg (unlike every other wep) so until chapter 3 your best weapon will have 50 DMG (with 60 mana needed...city trainer only trains till 50 so you need to get some other upgrades or you can't even wield that, also other builds are in the 100s by now). Without weapon proficiency the weapon tickles for 1-2% dmg on a lot of the enemies unless you get a crit from proficiency. I don't know if there is a bug in the calculation but my understanding was that the weapon damage should always apply and crits add your stat to the dmg (magic staff dmg is boosted by STR, another stat you don't have). In reality you do virtually no damage unless you crit. By Chapter 4 and a staff with "70 dmg" and STR at 50, I still hit half naked citizens in the city slums for 1-2% and crit for 15%. Staff combat is overall a bad joke.