So about all this ammo......

[Tikigod]

Now perhaps those across the pond in the US will think this is perfectly normal, but for those not in countries where a having a gun in your home is more commonplace than having a kettle, anyone else finding it a bit jarring just how much freaking ammo is everywhere?!?

Like I could relate to things a bit better if ammo was represented in terms of one item was one bullet or maybe a clip, but given that ammo represented by "A crate" and a crate is described as being "100 rounds", why the bloody hell is it so freaking commonplace to anything from 3,000 to 6,000 rounds of ammunition on a single street of residential homes?

It feels very much like for every stack of canned food you'll find in a household which is enough to feed 4 people you'll have found 300-400 rounds of bullets in between.

Just doesn't quite feel right just how frequent ammo is in the volume the game represents it as.

[Tikigod]

Originally posted by BrutalGlory:

Originally posted by Tikigod:

Actually what I did was actually look up general global statistics beyond just badly applied "Take the estimated number of guns in the world and divide by number of estimated people in the world to make big number claim".

I also didn't take vague ideas like "Lots of dictatorships/warlords/crime bosses" to then just pull out immaterial ideas that must mean lots of guns everywhere just because that sounds like a point even though it lacks any solid basis what so ever.

Taking the estimated number of guns per 100 people calculated for individual countries (Which includes estimated unlicensed guns in said countries), then the general ball park average if we're being generous and padding up to do away with low population outliers throwing off figures, but also factoring in that places like the US and the Falklands are also extreme outliers in the opposite direction, is somewhere around 15-18 guns existing per 100 people.

And frankly the only reason the average is even around there is because of 3 or 4 outliers that have massively higher numbers than most other countries in the world by a magnitude of 3-4 times the average either because yes there are indeed lots of guns in said countries or because the population of said country is very small relative to the number of guns present.

With those outliers being the United states, The Falklands and Yemen.

With the Falklands simply being a case of an absolutely tiny population.

And the US sitting itself at almost 10 times the average, more than double the number of guns per 100 people than Yemen, and more than 3 times the number of guns per 100 people than the next country down the list that has a population of at least 1 million people with that country being Serbia.

Lastly contrary to what you said, most larger populated Western/Northern European countries actually have a higher average of estimated guns per 100 people than most countries in Asia, Africa or similar areas which I imagine is what you have in your head as being where "Most of the world is made up of dictatorships, warlords and crime bosses" are and where it seems you think guns run free on the streets or whatever similarly distorted world view you seem to have.



And a side point, you're going on about guns still. Guns in the game are actually not all that common place relative to the sheer volume of ammo present which is what the topic is actually about.... the prevalence of ammo in the typical household and other similar generic buildings compared to any other item type (With guns being included in the category of 'Any other item type')

Yeah, see you've pretty well convinced me that you're a moron. Do you seriously think dictatorships, warlords, crime organizations, and third world countries give accurate census data on guns? Your research is completely flawed - you can't just look at one study from God knows where and assume it tells the entire story. Where there is ammo there *are* guns, you don't hoard a bunch of ammo that you keep insisting is abundant without cause.

If you'd even bothered to look at a map of any of the incomplete studies you're talking about you'd see ownership is still insanely high in second world countries and Asia. Places that also conveniently *don't* keep accurate records due to weak or corrupt central governments. I gave you a generic study as an outline to show how dumb your statement was, not as a guide. It's not my problem you can't seem to grasp basic concepts like arms trafficking not being public knowledge.

Or do you mean to tell me that every time a Hamas, Taliban, Sinaloa Cartel, crime family, Myanmar rebellion, or African Warlord rears its' ugly head their guns were recorded? Or do you really think that with these goofy ass statistic like Ukraine only have a 2.8/100 gun ownership rate they managed to hold off Russia before aid arrived? Of course not - they did it with Russian guns that were being sold among the populace and *not* recorded.

The only one with a distorted world view here is you. Where there's fire there's smoke, and where there's guns there's ammo.

You really don't seem clear on the point you're even trying to make now and seem just stuck making random arguments trying to feel you've proven at least something based on no substance beyond "This makes sense in my head and if you don't see it you're blind", and there's not much point trying to discuss the side point further with someone locked in their own private head space, anyone who doesn't just agree with your unsubstantiated conclusions based on nothing but "The dots I drew connect to me" is always just going to be flat out wrong to you, I get that.

But to keep it to the actual point, so you're saying where there's guns there's ammo, yes?

Well in this game there's a over abundance of ammo, and but not really any guns relative to the quantity of ammo.

So you agree with the point I made then? That the prevalence of ammo being as it is in this game is disproportionate to the volume of any other type of item in the game?

[Lord Zultron]

There is always that one guy... But its not realistic it doesnt adhere to basic principles... Fella there are fictional zombies in the game. If anything you could say the zombie hordes dont behave correctly instead they should all be spread out on the map because thats what we been thought from shows like walking dead ect... Seriously its supposed to be game so it needs to be fun... We play these games to shoot things and have fun not evaluate if the there is enough ammo per houshold or how many rounds should gun hold ect..

[BrutalGlory]

Originally posted by Tikigod:

Originally posted by BrutalGlory:

Yeah, see you've pretty well convinced me that you're a moron. Do you seriously think dictatorships, warlords, crime organizations, and third world countries give accurate census data on guns? Your research is completely flawed - you can't just look at one study from God knows where and assume it tells the entire story. Where there is ammo there *are* guns, you don't hoard a bunch of ammo that you keep insisting is abundant without cause.

If you'd even bothered to look at a map of any of the incomplete studies you're talking about you'd see ownership is still insanely high in second world countries and Asia. Places that also conveniently *don't* keep accurate records due to weak or corrupt central governments. I gave you a generic study as an outline to show how dumb your statement was, not as a guide. It's not my problem you can't seem to grasp basic concepts like arms trafficking not being public knowledge.

Or do you mean to tell me that every time a Hamas, Taliban, Sinaloa Cartel, crime family, Myanmar rebellion, or African Warlord rears its' ugly head their guns were recorded? Or do you really think that with these goofy ass statistic like Ukraine only have a 2.8/100 gun ownership rate they managed to hold off Russia before aid arrived? Of course not - they did it with Russian guns that were being sold among the populace and *not* recorded.

The only one with a distorted world view here is you. Where there's fire there's smoke, and where there's guns there's ammo.

You really don't seem really clear on the point you're even trying to make now and seem just stuck making random arguments trying to feel you've proven at least something.... but to keep it to the actual point, so you're saying where there's guns there's ammo, yes?

Well in this game there's a over abundance of ammo, and but not really any guns relative to the quantity of ammo.

So you agree with the point I made then? That the prevalence of ammo being as it is in this game is disproportionate to the volume of any other type of item in the game?

No, you don't seem to understand. I'm saying that everything you've said is from your first post is a load of crap. On top of that you've failed to even grasp that my initial response was to you saying guns that *aren't* commonplace.

I've stuck to my arguments, you on the other hand called a quick example of a study flawed and then used it for your OWN ARGUMENT. You seem to have trouble grasping even the most obvious conclusions to your own questions. Why does a home have ammo and no gun? Well ♥♥♥♥ Sherlock, maybe the person with the gun couldn't CARRY two crates of ammo on their person when they were killed outside their home or turned. On top of that you don't *get* 60 crates of ammo on ONE STREET. Your opening post is nonsensical, you don't even get those kinds of numbers when looting a gun store.

I know what i'm arguing, i've been making the same argument this entire time. You just can't seem to keep what you should be arguing (and with what evidence) straight and keep track of what i've said. You've displayed a complete lack of critical thinking and i'm pretty well over it at this point - so have fun.

[Tikigod]

jumped in.

Originally posted by BrutalGlory:

Originally posted by Tikigod:

You really don't seem really clear on the point you're even trying to make now and seem just stuck making random arguments trying to feel you've proven at least something.... but to keep it to the actual point, so you're saying where there's guns there's ammo, yes?

Well in this game there's a over abundance of ammo, and but not really any guns relative to the quantity of ammo.

So you agree with the point I made then? That the prevalence of ammo being as it is in this game is disproportionate to the volume of any other type of item in the game?

No, you don't seem to understand. I'm saying that everything you've said is from your first post is a load of crap. On top of that you've failed to even grasp that my initial response was to you saying guns that *aren't* commonplace.

I've stuck to my arguments, you on the other hand called a quick example of a study flawed and then used it for your OWN ARGUMENT. You seem to have trouble grasping even the most obvious conclusions to your own questions. Why does a home have ammo and no gun? Well ♥♥♥♥ Sherlock, maybe the person with the gun couldn't CARRY two crates of ammo on their person when they were killed outside their home or turned. On top of that you don't *get* 60 crates of ammo on ONE STREET. Your opening post is nonsensical, you don't even get those kinds of numbers when looting a gun store.

I know what i'm arguing, i've been making the same argument this entire time. You just can't seem to keep what you should be arguing (and with what evidence) straight and keep track of what i've said. You've displayed a complete lack of critical thinking and i'm pretty well over it at this point - so have fun.

Oh I see a part of your confusion and seemingly erratic point from the get go, you took my "The world isn't saturated with guns, it's saturated with ammo" post to mean real life.

It was referring to the game world as that was the context the person was discussing the world being one where zombies are a thing so obviously guns would be more common place... to which I was pointing out that the game world isn't filled with a lot more guns, it's just filled with a lot more ammo, disproportionate to the prevalence of actual guns represented in the game.

For you to re-read and get the actual context:

Originally posted by Tikigod:

Originally posted by resonance:

What you have to realize though is that this is a world where 'zombies' became real. Sure most households aren't saturated with guns now, but if that did happen for real you would absolutely see everyone trying to stock up.

But the world isn't saturated with guns.

It's saturated with ammo....thousands of rounds of ammo per street.... but maybe 1 gun for every 10,000 rounds.

[BrutalGlory]

Originally posted by Tikigod:

jumped in.

Originally posted by BrutalGlory:

No, you don't seem to understand. I'm saying that everything you've said is from your first post is a load of crap. On top of that you've failed to even grasp that my initial response was to you saying guns that *aren't* commonplace.

I've stuck to my arguments, you on the other hand called a quick example of a study flawed and then used it for your OWN ARGUMENT. You seem to have trouble grasping even the most obvious conclusions to your own questions. Why does a home have ammo and no gun? Well ♥♥♥♥ Sherlock, maybe the person with the gun couldn't CARRY two crates of ammo on their person when they were killed outside their home or turned. On top of that you don't *get* 60 crates of ammo on ONE STREET. Your opening post is nonsensical, you don't even get those kinds of numbers when looting a gun store.

I know what i'm arguing, i've been making the same argument this entire time. You just can't seem to keep what you should be arguing (and with what evidence) straight and keep track of what i've said. You've displayed a complete lack of critical thinking and i'm pretty well over it at this point - so have fun.

Oh I see a part of your confusion and seemingly erratic point jumping around, you took my "The world isn't saturated with guns, it's saturated with ammo" post to mean real life.

It was referring to the game world as that was the context the person was discussing the world being one where zombies are a thing so obviously guns would be more common place... to which I was pointing out that the game world isn't filled with a lot more guns, it's just filled with a lot more ammo, disproportionate to the prevalence of actual guns represented in the game.

That's not it. You responded to someone who claimed that if it were real life gun production would be increased. I'm disagreeing with both of you wand saying that the numbers are already much higher than you both seem to think they are. I didn't bring up the real world aspect; i simply commented on what you said about what they said (which was them drawing a realistic comparison).

[llder]

Yes, ammo is quite a lot. I would think that after 'x' years surviving underground most guns would be destroyed, non-functioning, etc.
I think guns and ammo should be something you're really want to research ASAP (Same as the fortified walls) instead of finding it. Bow and arrow should be the go to in the beginning.
As for gun ownership in my country: legal its around 1 gun per 90K people (Illegal wil make it probably around 1gun per 88K people (just a guess)).