Dogs Too Difficult

[J B Dryden]

Even after the balancing patch (which was great!), I've found that I can manageably defend against most of the swarms -- with obvious need to do some immediate repairs -- but the swarms of dogs that come in every now and then wipe out dozens of people and buildings. It seems like maybe they were missed in the rebalance, and it destroys me every time.

[Wiiz 70's]

they are fast but weak . in the begining crush them with cars

[baddoggs]

They can eat walls soooo quickly in big packs..
if you not ready.

[baddoggs]

Originally posted by 🐾𝓢𝓱𝓪𝓭𝓸𝔀💖:

... and as a Bad Dog, I guess you'd know. :md_smile:

I resemble that remark...

[J B Dryden]

Originally posted by Eternal Knight:

In my opinion, for every post that is made saying things are to difficult, there are always counter post being made sayings things are not. In the end it really comes down to the resilience / imagination of the player. In order to find out how to deal with these threats all you need to do is search the forum, you will find many threads, including some that come with videos that show you how to do it.

As it is now, they can literally tear down brick walls in my bases. How does that even make any sense? I can have multiple towers with AR-15s and squads to support them, and the dogs will still cause massive damage because they come in with groups of 10-15.

Also, being a pedantic ass isn't fun or cool or helpful when people are trying to get a handle on a game.

[dirtybirdfan16]

Wow, I thought after all this time they would have fixed this, but I just had one single horde of 8 dogs destroy my truck as I tried to mow them over, killed at least 12 people trying to get to shelter, and ultimately took 3 squads to bring it down! (armed w/assault rifles, shotguns, and pistols). I don't have problems with humans, raiders, or even alphas, which all seem to level good in difficulty, but man these dogs are like terminators and I'm using .22 cal ammo.

[PlayerX]

They should not be ble to bite through brick and metal, that is for sure

[Citizen Kane]

Originally posted by PlayerX:

They should not be ble to bite through brick and metal, that is for sure

They don't bite through, they dig underneath, and that's how the wall collapses. The animation is just not accurate yet.

[Nordil(Hun)]

Originally posted by J B Dryden:

Originally posted by Eternal Knight:

In my opinion, for every post that is made saying things are to difficult, there are always counter post being made sayings things are not. In the end it really comes down to the resilience / imagination of the player. In order to find out how to deal with these threats all you need to do is search the forum, you will find many threads, including some that come with videos that show you how to do it.

As it is now, they can literally tear down brick walls in my bases. How does that even make any sense? I can have multiple towers with AR-15s and squads to support them, and the dogs will still cause massive damage because they come in with groups of 10-15.

Also, being a pedantic ass isn't fun or cool or helpful when people are trying to get a handle on a game.

Because both AR and Tower are traps actually.

In the current form of the game AR is a huge waste of ammo. Basicly anyone using it will go through ammo very fast. With Towers it is even worse because those within DO NOT REPLENISH AMMO. At least one small burst is one dog if i recall well, but might be two. (I cant remember whether dogs have 50 hp or 65.)
AR has a bit longer range than pistol and shotgun, but it has the worst ammo consumption. Also towers can house 2-3 guys. So considering you have all of them have AR-s they will likely run out of ammo at around the 3rd horde. And no way to replenish it.
HQ-s (and warehouses and probably Squad Quarters) are currently the only places where units will replenish ammo if there is one.

//How weapons work, and why AR is terrible.:
1 unit of ammo contains 100 bullets.

An AR will have 100 bullets, however they shoot in short bursts, so basicly on average around ~3 ammo is used per shot. And that 3 ammo deals 53 damage. Attack is 1/ sec.
Requires 2 shots for normal infected and 1 or 2 shots for a dog, i cant recall. But this requires 6/100 ammo to kill one single infected so either 3/100 or 6/100.
For normal infected it takes about 2 seconds to kill one at the rate of 6 ammo out of the 100 you have in the clip. -> With 100 bullets or 1 units of ammo you can kill 16.5 infected.

A pistol will have 50 ammo and will do 35 damage per shot. And one shot uses 1 ammo. Attack speed is 0.6 second. -> an attack every 1 and 2/3 seconds. -> requires 3 shots to kill a normal infected and 2 shots for a dog. So you need 3/100 ammo to kill an infected or 2/100 to kill a single dog. It kills a normal infected in ~ 5 seconds.
So with 100 ammo you can actually around 33 and 1/3 infected. I think the ammo damage does not carry over. So if you hit an infected with 5 hp, it gets damaged for the full 35 hp, and 30 damage will not be carried over to the next infected.
If the damage carries over, then the AR kills around 18 max 19 infected per a full unit of ammo, whereas the pistol around 35-6

A shotgun will have 40 ammo and do 100 damage per shot, but with 40 ammo you will have 14 shots. So it also uses around 3 ammo however it instantly kills one infected and attack speed is 1 attack every 2.5 second. Also worthy to note that whereas you will have about 33 shots with 100 bullets(1 unit ammo) with an AR, a shotgun will have around 35. And each shot is a kill for both infected and dogs.

A sniper is slow but steady. 200 damage every 3 and 1/3 seconds. It instantly kills everything but the alpha. Clip size is 25. One shot one bullet. So for 100 bullets, aka a full unit of ammo you get 100 kills.(unless alpha).

So all in all AR is currently the trap weapon. A character will run out in 33 seconds after the fight started. Considering a full squad of 4 that would mean 66 infected within those 33 seconds with all of them using up 4 units of ammo. A full squad of shottguners would kill within this timeframe 52,8 infected but using only around 36-40 bullets per person, so you would have 240-252 ammo left, aka 2.4-2.52 unit of ammo. A full squad of pistol guys would kill 26,4 infected within 33 seconds, they would use up around 80(!) bullets. Leaving them with 3.2 units of ammo. A full squad of snipers 9.9 per sniper. So most likely 40 infected within the allotted time. And leaving 3.6 units of ammo.
This is not a precise calculation, it is very rudementary as the range is not considered.
Which offers the snipers a decent, and the AR a very slight advantage.

All in all:
Fastest weapon is the AR with 16.5 kills for every 33 seconds, but at the cost of 100 bullet or 1 unit of ammo.
So it is the greatest bullet waster as well. With shotgun and even with pistol you are able to kill twice the amount of infected than with AR. With sniper...a lot more:P)//

Also 10-15 dogs is not even much. Barely requires any micromanagement to overcome them without letting them even get near your base. (One or two cars with pistol dudes and an extra clip actually might even completely wipe them. AR-s might not. Due to ammo issues. So against dogs you are better off using pistol. Slower but they will shoot longer and reliably. 2 shots=> 1 dog.)

In my game i get around 40-50 hordes of dogs when they come. And my base is not even completely surrounded by walls or hq-s yet.
I just go out with the cars, lead a few of them away from the main horde, towards other sections where they should hit the base, where my fortifications are up. Or with one or two cars i backup and shoot them. Shotgunners only.

As a sideinfo, i completely stopped building any kind of towers, so perhaps the last tier tower might be worth it, but the first two defo not. You are better off with building gates. More people, more guns, more firepower, more ammo. But again no AR-s. Shotguns maybe, but pistols are your best option for gates. (Even bows are good:D)
You can make gates in multiple ways to be effective. From there on it is just your play and buildingstyle how you use them.
A fortified gate has 15000 Hp, vs a brick walls 1500. It houses 6 people. And you can lure 2-4 hordes away that are attacking it just via car. (However if you position 2 HQ-s on the gate side behind brick walls, place within a few shotgun+sniper squads...they might not even reach the wall, as they will usually go for the gate.)

[The Slender Man]

I agree and disagree...

The dogs are cool and I prefer them attacking me then the hoarde with an Alpha.. the dogs die easily if youre not using pistols.

On the other hand it is kinda non immersive for them to break through metal or concrete walls. Someone said they are digging underneath.. even if thats so digging underneath will not collapse a well built wall as the walls support eachother.. you can dig underneath a brick or stone wall and it will not fall unless the other sides of the wall are compromised. So i understand where he is comming from in that aspect

Personally I dont think the dogs are that much of a challenge since they die easily, but i can see how they would be daunting... Im actually looking forward to other infected animals being added to the game.. Infected Bears that are hard to bring down but slow, infected deer/moose that ram gates and break through easily or even infected monkey's that move faster then dogs & climb the walls but are easy to kill.. ofcourse the animals would have to be tied to different regions of the world.. but, I like the dogs.. they add some enemy variety to the game which is always good. The Alpha was a great Idea... I'd like to see other Mutated versions of the Alpha if possible... It'd also be cool to be scavenging buildings only to run into a Dog Den like you do hoards hidden in buildings.

[The Slender Man]

Originally posted by Nordil(Hun):

Originally posted by J B Dryden:

As it is now, they can literally tear down brick walls in my bases. How does that even make any sense? I can have multiple towers with AR-15s and squads to support them, and the dogs will still cause massive damage because they come in with groups of 10-15.

Also, being a pedantic ass isn't fun or cool or helpful when people are trying to get a handle on a game.

Because both AR and Tower are traps actually.

In the current form of the game AR is a huge waste of ammo. Basicly anyone using it will go through ammo very fast. With Towers it is even worse because those within DO NOT REPLENISH AMMO. At least one small burst is one dog if i recall well, but might be two. (I cant remember whether dogs have 50 hp or 65.)
AR has a bit longer range than pistol and shotgun, but it has the worst ammo consumption. Also towers can house 2-3 guys. So considering you have all of them have AR-s they will likely run out of ammo at around the 3rd horde. And no way to replenish it.
HQ-s (and warehouses and probably Squad Quarters) are currently the only places where units will replenish ammo if there is one.

//How weapons work, and why AR is terrible.:
1 unit of ammo contains 100 bullets.

An AR will have 100 bullets, however they shoot in short bursts, so basicly on average around ~3 ammo is used per shot. And that 3 ammo deals 53 damage. Attack is 1/ sec.
Requires 2 shots for normal infected and 1 or 2 shots for a dog, i cant recall. But this requires 6/100 ammo to kill one single infected so either 3/100 or 6/100.
For normal infected it takes about 2 seconds to kill one at the rate of 6 ammo out of the 100 you have in the clip. -> With 100 bullets or 1 units of ammo you can kill 16.5 infected.

A pistol will have 50 ammo and will do 35 damage per shot. And one shot uses 1 ammo. Attack speed is 0.6 second. -> an attack every 1 and 2/3 seconds. -> requires 3 shots to kill a normal infected and 2 shots for a dog. So you need 3/100 ammo to kill an infected or 2/100 to kill a single dog. It kills a normal infected in ~ 5 seconds.
So with 100 ammo you can actually around 33 and 1/3 infected. I think the ammo damage does not carry over. So if you hit an infected with 5 hp, it gets damaged for the full 35 hp, and 30 damage will not be carried over to the next infected.
If the damage carries over, then the AR kills around 18 max 19 infected per a full unit of ammo, whereas the pistol around 35-6

A shotgun will have 40 ammo and do 100 damage per shot, but with 40 ammo you will have 14 shots. So it also uses around 3 ammo however it instantly kills one infected and attack speed is 1 attack every 2.5 second. Also worthy to note that whereas you will have about 33 shots with 100 bullets(1 unit ammo) with an AR, a shotgun will have around 35. And each shot is a kill for both infected and dogs.

A sniper is slow but steady. 200 damage every 3 and 1/3 seconds. It instantly kills everything but the alpha. Clip size is 25. One shot one bullet. So for 100 bullets, aka a full unit of ammo you get 100 kills.(unless alpha).

So all in all AR is currently the trap weapon. A character will run out in 33 seconds after the fight started. Considering a full squad of 4 that would mean 66 infected within those 33 seconds with all of them using up 4 units of ammo. A full squad of shottguners would kill within this timeframe 52,8 infected but using only around 36-40 bullets per person, so you would have 240-252 ammo left, aka 2.4-2.52 unit of ammo. A full squad of pistol guys would kill 26,4 infected within 33 seconds, they would use up around 80(!) bullets. Leaving them with 3.2 units of ammo. A full squad of snipers 9.9 per sniper. So most likely 40 infected within the allotted time. And leaving 3.6 units of ammo.
This is not a precise calculation, it is very rudementary as the range is not considered.
Which offers the snipers a decent, and the AR a very slight advantage.

All in all:
Fastest weapon is the AR with 16.5 kills for every 33 seconds, but at the cost of 100 bullet or 1 unit of ammo.
So it is the greatest bullet waster as well. With shotgun and even with pistol you are able to kill twice the amount of infected than with AR. With sniper...a lot more:P)//

Also 10-15 dogs is not even much. Barely requires any micromanagement to overcome them without letting them even get near your base. (One or two cars with pistol dudes and an extra clip actually might even completely wipe them. AR-s might not. Due to ammo issues. So against dogs you are better off using pistol. Slower but they will shoot longer and reliably. 2 shots=> 1 dog.)

In my game i get around 40-50 hordes of dogs when they come. And my base is not even completely surrounded by walls or hq-s yet.
I just go out with the cars, lead a few of them away from the main horde, towards other sections where they should hit the base, where my fortifications are up. Or with one or two cars i backup and shoot them. Shotgunners only.

As a sideinfo, i completely stopped building any kind of towers, so perhaps the last tier tower might be worth it, but the first two defo not. You are better off with building gates. More people, more guns, more firepower, more ammo. But again no AR-s. Shotguns maybe, but pistols are your best option for gates. (Even bows are good:D)
You can make gates in multiple ways to be effective. From there on it is just your play and buildingstyle how you use them.
A fortified gate has 15000 Hp, vs a brick walls 1500. It houses 6 people. And you can lure 2-4 hordes away that are attacking it just via car. (However if you position 2 HQ-s on the gate side behind brick walls, place within a few shotgun+sniper squads...they might not even reach the wall, as they will usually go for the gate.)

Great breakdown of the ammo consumption.. I always have tons of boxes of ammo by the time I get AR's tho so i never notice them consuming alot of ammo.. i do realize they run out of ammo during firefights though.. In real Life in the arme we always have a Can of pure ammo for the tower and 4-5 full mags of 30 rounds for each person meaning the towers have well over 400 rounds..

The Rifle damage SHOULD be higher.. AR/M16/AK bullets do more then leave a hole in the target, they flip or spin in the air many times and displace the air around them creating a HUGE hole in the exit wound.. Very damaging weapons even for Zombies.. so if the bullets from the AR are only doing 50 or so damage that should definitly be ramped up to 70-80 dmg..

I never considered using all pistols but imma think about using only pistols in the gates to conserve ammo.. thanks for this tip.. great info here...