This game is such a disservice to the original lol

[Your Dad 👨‍🔬]

I was really looking forward to this and even the changes but this game is bad. The mechanics cater way too much to braindead people. This is baaaaad bad, snooze-fest bad.

I'll take your opinions now

[Xengre]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ness:

Not just that the camera flies around. Camera doesn't show a lot of the action that's occurring on the screen. You're supposed to be managing your party because they have non-customizable behavior, yet you cannot see the whole battlefield at any given time, so it is a mess in many battles. ATB+action does not work. Bad design does not equal difficulty worth "mastering."

Rotate the camera. You can keep track of action just fine.

The AI actually can be influenced to block better with Steadfast Block which works extremely well with keeping the AI alive and if you want you can use Barrett's support survivability skills.

Beyond this, the enemy AI primarily targets the controlled character anyways so it isn't even an issue.

You can see their HP and use group healing spells like Pray / Restore, the game slows down when you bring up the ATB menu if you need to review because someone's HP got too low / chunked, or you can simply play at the easiest difficulty and treat it like a tactical game...

I mean, your complaint is basically claiming all action games are simply poorly designed and unplayable,e specially if they have multiple party members. Personally, I had absolutely no issues whatsoever even on the hardest difficulties and hardest bosses.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ness:

They coulda done just either traditional FF7 combat, or if not that, then action with customizable party member behavior like in FF12 or in Trials of Mana.

But nope. They had to combine them into this weird thing that does neither strategy/pausing nor action/real-time well because it's trying to do both, and they aren't compatible as presented.

It is true they could have done that and if they balanced it appropriately it would have been solid, but what they went for actually works very well as well despite your claim otherwise. The combat system is fairly well received. It isn't the first time this system has been used, either. Games like Growlanser, Grandia, and such use such systems as well.

They likely chose this because they wanted to pander to more players similar to FFXV's action approach to combat and now even FFXVI's.

Remember, just because you don't like it does not mean others did not. Same for you not being good at it but good at other types of combat may not align with the skills of others.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ness:

Also, the stagger mechanic in general is lazy artificial difficulty. Action games that are challenging and engaging rely on you to actually respond to opponent patterns and behavior and learn from them. This game basically just employs the same strategy for every fight--stagger opponent, unload moves, repeat. Like is that fun? It's just a chore once the luster of the pretty visuals ceases to cover up the monotony. Staggering is an old, cheap, and unidimensional mechanic. It makes it so any boss is basically an HP bag that you feel like you're doing well against but really you're just doing the same exact thing you do for every fight. I am aware that maybe "hard mode" can add more strategy (does it though?), but that mode requires playing the entire game again, a second time. . .

It isn't artificial difficulty. It is called applying depth and strategy. Countless games have used various stagger / weakness systems for burst dmg and swapping between styles of play during the course of a fight as a way to diversify gameplay and also leverage more efficient play among more skilled players who properly utilize such systems.

The stagger system is you properly responding. The punisher mode, counterstance, parry, Yuffie's dodge skill, Barrett's tanky skills, Aerith's wall skill, auto-life skill on weapons, Steadfast Block (or blocking in general), use proper elemental attacks according to weakness (including shifting elemental weaknesses or changing combat states), or any other special boss mechanic rules (scorpion shield, attacking apendages of threatening body parts of boss, environmental effects, etc.), and so forth. There are many in-combat as well as out of combat RPG elements you can engage in order to do this. It is definitely more than stagger > unload.

This is ultimately a JRPG with some action elements, btw, and not a full hardcore action twitch based game. Also keep in mind majority of action games aren't even as diverse as this one... The biggest issue with this game, arguably, is the basic trash mob encounters are a bit overly simple, something that will hopefully be improved in episode 2 and looks like they might be based on trailers and new info.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ness:

And yes, FF7's combat wasn't particularly engaging or groundbreaking aside from a few great fights like Emerald Weapon. The point of FF7 isn't that its some crazy hard or complex combat system--the point was the story as facilitated by the theatrics/exploration/secrets/customization/optimization.

You're saying it isn't now?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ness:

With this "remake," the story makes no sense, and so all it has left is visuals and gameplay. The visuals are good, but the gameplay is not, whether in the battle system or in the corridors, "side quests," etc.

The story makes ample sense but I'm not going to debate that one with you again. This forum knows that one well enough.

Gameplay is not of your taste, which is fine, but it doesn't mean it is bad. Is there room for some improvement like in the original game? Yes, and so far it does appear episode 2 is actually doing just that though we still need to reserve full judgement until release.

The corridor issue is in large part due to Midgar's design plus serious limitations of PS4. As we can see in the trailer, being next-gen only, this issue has been totally resolved with huge open areas.

Side quests is one thing I'm curious to find out if it is improved. People very grossly exaggerate the padding in episode 1. Side quests made up, easily, less than 10% of the full playthrough time as they're all very short and streamlined and there aren't many. However, they were definitely very low quality side quests and they've mentioned making them more character (party member) interaction driven as a way to develop your characters personality/story-wise but it remains to be seen if it is adequate and it was still a weak point of episode 1.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tallgeese:

The characters don't act like regular human beings. They ignore or don't react to stuff like regular humans would. The characters need to not act like normal human beings for the story to work, which is the sign of a bad story.

Do you have examples? I don't recall this being an issue in the game at all.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mdesaleah:

"Lets kill fate god, which is created by the planet. Even though not two seconds ago, we were fighting for the planet"

They're not killing fate. That is a defense mechanism of the planet. They're merely defying it, overcoming it, to create a better future for the planet than the one prior which clearly did not work out. The planet doesn't have a consciousness or it is extremely low with minimal to zero intelligence. It simply acts on instinct. Their actions, unless they screw up the new timeline, did not harm the planet. Remember we also kill the planets various weapons (Ruby, Emerald, Ultima, Diamond) in the original, too, but took up the mantle of doign the job of protecting the planet in a more adequate (debatable and human defined winner make right theme, but obv it wouldn't have been able to stop Sephiroth).

[tallgeese]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Xengre:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von tallgeese:

The characters don't act like regular human beings. They ignore or don't react to stuff like regular humans would. The characters need to not act like normal human beings for the story to work, which is the sign of a bad story.

Do you have examples? I don't recall this being an issue in the game at all.

An example? The entire game.

Look, I could give you examples but I have to be honest... at this point, it's in the "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" territory. If you have to ask for examples, I think you just don't have the capability to understand what I would explain to you. I think the proper solution is for you to keep consuming GOOD entertainment so you can come to that realization yourself.

[mdesaleah]

"They're not killing fate. That is a defense mechanism of the planet. They're merely defying it, overcoming it, to create a better future for the planet than the one prior....."

And they know this how? Aerith? And why should they trust Aerith? Why would Aerith even want this? She died for the greater good of the planet.

"....which clearly did not work out."

But it did. The original ending isnt a perfect sunshine and rainbows ending, but they did succeed. Part of the point of the original is that you cant just undo death. But here comes the fanfiction sequel to use some fanservice.


"The planet doesn't have a consciousness or it is extremely low with minimal to zero intelligence. It simply acts on instinct."

Again, how do any of the characters who arent Aerith or Sephiroth even know this? They haven't met anyone to explain how the planet operates yet, because that scene hasnt yet happened (in the original its explained later before any drastic decisions are made by the team).

"Their actions, unless they screw up the new timeline, did not harm the planet"

Lucky for them. Cause unless Aerith has already tried this multiple times before, even she wouldnt know this for sure. It could even be entirely false since theres no evidence that this is a good thing. Wouldn't be surprised if Part 2 tries to do this twist though. In which case, I'd just point to the Matrix sequels as a better done example of this, and even then it isnt perfect.

[Tiberius]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mdesaleah:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

So basically like the og ff7. Lets kill sephiroth, despite all sephiroth has been doing in game is in line with avalanche's goal, that is to stop shinra 😂

Thats the point though.

If you played the original any time recently, or at all, you'd remember that they actually mention this. Barret points out how Sephiroth seems to be helping them by killing President Shinra, so why are they even worried in the first place.

Which is then followed by Cloud pointing out how Sephiroth is dangerous, and after reaching the first inn outside of Midgar, Cloud explains how Sephiroth destroyed Nibelheim, killed its residents, and is obsessed with Jenova. The characters then fully understand why leaving Sephiroth alone would be a mistake.

So yeah, the original knew to explain itself in order for the characters actions to make sense. Thats completely different than trusting Aerith, who has been lying the entire time in 7R and the characters have no reason to trust what they are doing at the end.

Lmfao.. Why the heck should they care abt sephiroth if he has nothing to do with their goal? They literally had no motivation to chase some crazy dude. Even after nibleheim flashback, they're still not sure what to do.

The remake actually tried to fix this problem with the whole timeline thing. They actually get to see the future and the role of sephiroth in it, giving them actual reason to chase sephiroth

[mdesaleah]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mdesaleah:

Thats the point though.

If you played the original any time recently, or at all, you'd remember that they actually mention this. Barret points out how Sephiroth seems to be helping them by killing President Shinra, so why are they even worried in the first place.

Which is then followed by Cloud pointing out how Sephiroth is dangerous, and after reaching the first inn outside of Midgar, Cloud explains how Sephiroth destroyed Nibelheim, killed its residents, and is obsessed with Jenova. The characters then fully understand why leaving Sephiroth alone would be a mistake.

So yeah, the original knew to explain itself in order for the characters actions to make sense. Thats completely different than trusting Aerith, who has been lying the entire time in 7R and the characters have no reason to trust what they are doing at the end.

Lmfao.. Why the heck should they care abt sephiroth if he has nothing to do with their goal? They literally had no motivation to chase some crazy dude. Even after nibleheim flashback, they're still not sure what to do.

Going after one of the strongest warriors in the world, previously believed to have disappeared, out for revenge, obsessed with his alien mother that Shinra was hiding from the public, and powered by Shinra Mako experiments isnt a good enough reason?

Especially when Shinra themselves is after him for unknown reasons? The game points that out as a major reason. If Shinra is after him, then there must be something bigger going on.

You should really play the original again, or at all to get more understanding on whats happening.

[Tiberius]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mdesaleah:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

Lmfao.. Why the heck should they care abt sephiroth if he has nothing to do with their goal? They literally had no motivation to chase some crazy dude. Even after nibleheim flashback, they're still not sure what to do.

Going after one of the strongest warriors in the world, previously believed to have disappeared, out for revenge, obsessed with his alien mother that Shinra was hiding from the public, and powered by Shinra Mako experiments isnt a good enough reason?

Especially when Shinra themselves is after him for unknown reasons? The game points that out as a major reason. If Shinra is after him, then there must be something bigger going on.

You should really play the original again, or at all to get more understanding on whats happening.

Why? Why should they chase the strongest warrior? What you're babbling here didnt answer the motivational question at all.

There's zero freakin reason to chase him when in the entire game, sephiroth actually has been killing shinra left and right, which again is the main goal of avalanche. So instead of teaming up with him, you decide to chase and kill him? There's this phrase, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

The only one who has personal motivation to chase sephiroth is cloud.

[mdesaleah]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mdesaleah:

Going after one of the strongest warriors in the world, previously believed to have disappeared, out for revenge, obsessed with his alien mother that Shinra was hiding from the public, and powered by Shinra Mako experiments isnt a good enough reason?

Especially when Shinra themselves is after him for unknown reasons? The game points that out as a major reason. If Shinra is after him, then there must be something bigger going on.

You should really play the original again, or at all to get more understanding on whats happening.

Why? Why should they chase the strongest warrior? What you're babbling here didnt answer the motivational question at all.

There's zero freakin reason to chase him when in the entire game, sephiroth actually has been killing shinra left and right, which again is the main goal of avalanche. So instead of teaming up with him, you decide to chase and kill him? There's this phrase, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

The only one who has personal motivation to chase sephiroth is cloud.

Either re-read what I explained with Cloud and how he presents their motivation, and my previous comment.

Or just actually play the original game. Cause it really seems like you looked up a summary of it without ever actually playing it.

"Strongest warrior" comment comes from his reputation in Shinra. He's incredibly strong and clearly has a reputation even when Cloud and Tifa were still kids. You'd know this already if you played the original.

[Tiberius]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von mdesaleah:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

Why? Why should they chase the strongest warrior? What you're babbling here didnt answer the motivational question at all.

There's zero freakin reason to chase him when in the entire game, sephiroth actually has been killing shinra left and right, which again is the main goal of avalanche. So instead of teaming up with him, you decide to chase and kill him? There's this phrase, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

The only one who has personal motivation to chase sephiroth is cloud.

Either re-read what I explained with Cloud and how he presents their motivation, and my previous comment.

Or just actually play the original game. Cause it really seems like you looked up a summary of it without ever actually playing it.

"Strongest warrior" comment comes from his reputation in Shinra. He's incredibly strong and clearly has a reputation even when Cloud and Tifa were still kids. You'd know this already if you played the original.

Yes thank you, i've alr played it. You dont need to explain anything anymore cos you've been avoiding the question several times by now.

[Zap]

Mdesa--you're not really explaining the setup to FF7 properly. Tiberius is right to call out the "strongest warrior" stuff--what you were saying there is incomplete and doesn't really make much sense. That's not motivation enough to pursue him. However, I agree with you that his questions seem to indicate he either did not play FF7 or else did not understand its plot very well.

The reason Cloud and crew pursue Sephiroth (while simultaneously also continuing to gain information on Shinra), is because of the sequence of events in Midgar, culminating in the trail of blood and then later highlighted in tone with the Midgar Zolom.

They have been pursuing disrupting Shinra's exploitation of the planet's lifestream, and what they realize is that when they reach the pinnacle of Shinra, embodied by the top floor of the towering building and by President Shinra, there is a much more complicated set of motivations and dynamics occurring than they had thought, and Sephiroth seems to be at the epicenter of it.

Then with Cloud, and Tifa, having prior encountered Sephiroth, the group begins to piece together what is going on, and Aeris (while alive) offers insight via what she knows from her clouded lineage.

They are pursuing the truth of what is going on, as it seems there are much larger stakes at play than Shinra's operations in Midgar alone. Pursuing both Shinra and Sephiroth will aim them at that truth.

This slow reveal and build up of Sephiroth's effects on the world was masterful storytelling as far as video games go, the exact opposite of the sort of exposition dumping nonsense you find in "remake's" final few chapters.

Tiberius, I hope that helps you with your potential lack of understanding of and/or experience with FF7. And mdesa I hope that helps you explain better what is going on in this story. I am assuming you understood this but were not articulating it properly.

[Tiberius]

Yawn

[Tiberius]

This dude is always making up things that have never been there. Literally no point talking to this dude.

[mdesaleah]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ness:

Mdesa--you're not really explaining the setup to FF7 properly. Tiberius is right to call out the "strongest warrior" stuff--what you were saying there is incomplete and doesn't really make much sense. However, I agree with you that his questions seem to indicate he either did not play FF7 or else did not understand its plot very well.

The reason Cloud and crew pursue Sephiroth (while simultaneously also continuing to gain information on Shinra), is because of the sequence of events in Midgar, culminating in the trail of blood and then later highlighted in tone with the Midgar Zolom.

They have been pursuing disrupting Shinra's exploitation of the planet's lifestream, and what they realize is that when they reach the pinnacle of Shinra, embodied by the top floor of the towering building and by President Shinra, there is evidently a much more complicated set of motivations and dynamics occurring than they had thought, and Sephiroth seems to be at the epicenter of it.

Then with Cloud, and Tifa, having prior encountered Sephiroth, the group begins to piece together what is going on, and Aeris (while alive) offers insight via what she knows from her clouded lineage.

They are pursuing the truth of what is going on, as it seems there are much larger stakes at play than Shinra's operations in Midgar alone. Pursuing both Shinra and Sephiroth will aim them at that truth.

This slow reveal and build up of Sephiroth's effects on the world was masterful storytelling, the exact opposite of the sort of exposition dumping nonsense you find in "remake's" final few chapters.

Tiberius, I hope that helps you with your potential lack of understanding of and/or experience with FF7. And mdesa I hope that helps you explain better what is going on in this story. I am assuming you understood this but were not articulating it properly.

Thanks for the summary. Yeah, I was skimming out a lot of details just to get to the bigger point. I mostly only mentioned the Shinra building and then cut straight to the inn flashback.

But I did forget to mention Aerith starting to piece things about the ancients together.


Although based on these quotes below, it seems to be just a poor troll attempt.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

This dude is always making up things that have never been there. Literally no point talking to this dude.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

Yawn

[Zap]

I can see how someone who would find the writing and presentation of the "remake" acceptable would not be interested in understanding or discussing the plot of FF7 in earnest. The target audience is primarily interested in the visuals and fanfare. This conversation demonstrates that well.

[Tiberius]

https://youtu.be/z2pU8vIExEU?si=OBDIfkj7pispKbu1

Your fave characters even call sephiroth a good guy. Like i said, theres no point in talking cos you guys are making your own imagination version of the game

[mdesaleah]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Tiberius:

https://youtu.be/z2pU8vIExEU?si=OBDIfkj7pispKbu1

Your fave characters even call sephiroth a good guy. Like i said, theres no point in talking cos you guys are making your own imagination version of the game

Ill bite the bait cause it is pretty juicy.

But of course they would not think Sephiroth is a major villain yet. They don't know any better, because thats how you properly write characters. They shouldnt just all agree to follow one goal just because the plot needs them to.

(Like how everyone follows future-sight Aerith for no reason. Thats a lot more severe than just questioning motives at first)